I think my STBXH is drugging my DC...

[Aliensloveunderpants00]

Wasn't sure where to post about this, MN feel free to move!

I have 2 yo twins. They are both terrible sleepers; put them in their cots at around 7pm but they don't actually fall asleep until at least 9.30pm on a good day (lots of screaming and crying etc etc). Then they're up at 6am sharp, many morning as early as 4am. Their room is very quiet, they have comfy very good mattresses and it's not too hot or too cold.

They stay with their father every other weekend for two nights. DD1 (she's 11) always has joked about how at his they seem to sleep forever and have lie ins every morning they stay there. I just called her to chat and she said they're still sleeping and will only wake up at 9.30am as they always do; apparently they went to bed at 6pm and fell asleep straight away and that really has got me thinking.

Now, a bit of backstory. Things between us are hell; he's a very abusive and at times violent man. From the moment I separated he's made it really clear he wants nothing to do with the twins (and yes, all DC are his). He doesn't brush their teeth or hair EVER (mixed race so completely knotted after two days), shoes on the wrong foot, constant nappy rash when they get back as well as terrible coughs/runny noses every time etc... he had them for a week during school holidays and for six days straight he didn't change their clothes, even to sleep!! (eldest sent a 'look how cute twinnies are sleeping in their grobags' picture six days in and there they were on the photo wearing the little dresses I handed them in a week earlier ); DC1 confirmed they've been wearing them since day 1. A lot more things like this which makes me feel they are an inconvenient to him more than anything else (which he has made very clear on emails too).

I guess my question is, what can I do? Is there any way I can check whether he's drugging them to sleep so they don't bother him in the mornings/ evenings? I wouldn't put it past him and it's really worrying me.

Thank you

Just adding to the chorus of "Don't send them"

Ok. I think you need to contact the nspcc or ss and get some advice.

You need to take some action to protect them. Because not doing anything makes you complicit in what is happening to them.

It's not about saying, "you can't have them anymore". It's about appropriately safeguarding them from harm.

At the moment you know he is neglecting them. You fear he may be physically abusing them. As their mother you can't do nothing.

^ Folk Girl has articulated what I wanted to say ^

You are all right. As I said, the only thing stopping me was to ensure DD1 still had a relationship with their father but as you pointed out he can still see her whilst the twins stay with me.

I would never forgive myself if anything happened to them. Can't believe someone can behave towards his own flesh and blood in that way, I hate the bastard

As he does behave towards his own flesh and blood this way, I would not be sending your eldest overnight either.
I would have supervised visits for her too as he cannot be trusted to be a responsible parent on his own.

Sedation by someone untrained with who knows what drugs (I'm assuming some sort of antihistamine but who knows?) could be fatal. If they have a stomach upset - unrelated or because of the toxin he is using to sedate them - and they vomit in their sleep, they could choke and die.

If you seriously think he is drugging them to make them sleep then please, cut contact straight away. You'd never forgive yourself if something terrible happened while you had these suspicions if you allow it to carry on. Re: older DD, you need to decide whether you want to send her alone for now or stop contact while you are having the drugging/neglect investigated. You are the adult here and you are the only one who can protect your girls.

The obvious question is does he take drugs himself, and if yes which ones? Do you suspect he is giving then some of the drugs he takes himself or that perhaps they are in an environment where there is a cloud if pot smoke around then or something?

There was a recent case where a toddler died after taking some of her parents Methadone. They also found there was traces of coke on her bottle teat, so I assume they had been either dipping the teat or adding coke to her milk to keep her quiet.

id be taking them straight away to a&e and getting a blood test, i wouldnt be waiting to see a GP as if he is drugging them it could bee out of their blood stream - and if he is drugging them id be then calling the police

NewEra that's a terrible story, poor poor baby .

No drug use at all, in fact he doesn't even smoke or drink, very healthy.

Anti-histamins or similar would make sense; what other explanation to them sleeping for 12+ hours straight when they barely do six/seven hours with me? And he doesn't even take them to the park or anywhere, they're usually just stuck in the house all day apparently so it's not like he tires them out doing whatever.

Your as bad as the dad!
Worst case scenario he's drugging your toddlers.
Best case he hideously neglecting them.

Court order my arse! You need to take some responsibility for the children. Your 11 year old knows this is all wrong. Give her the choice of visits but protect your twins

He leaves them in same clothes for a week, not changing nappies etc & possibly drugging them, phone social services on him FFS, if something happens to your children you will also be to blame.

Please protect your children.

OP, does your ex parent your DD1 in a healthy way or does he indulge her, buy her lots of things, and that's why she enjoys spending time with him?

There is a pattern of behaviour which abusive parents can follow, which involves treating one child as the favourite, the "golden child", and the others as "scapegoats". The golden child is lavished with attention, time and money while the scapegoats are neglected and blamed for anything that goes wrong. If this is the dynamic your ex is setting up, this can be just as psychologically damaging for the golden child as for the scapegoats.

You sound scared of your ex. Understandably so, if he's been violent in the past. You also sound as if you've been conditioned to the idea that you have to accept whatever he does and can't question him or pull him up on his behaviour. For the sake of all 3 of your children, this needs to change. What will your ex be like with the DTs when they are potty training? Will he leave them in wet or soiled clothes? Will he make them sleep in wet beds? Will he punish them for accidents? Will your DD1 learn that it is OK to treat toddlers like this? Or worse, that it's OK to treat others like this as long as she is treated well?

Potential drugging aside (and yes, it does sound suspicious), I would try to collect some objective evidence of his neglect of the DTs (photographs, GP visits) and use this to argue that he is not fit to have them overnight until he can prove that he can take care of their basic needs. As for your DD1, at 11 she is definitely old enough to understand that her DF's treatment of her siblings isn't right or fair. Parent contact is supposed to benefit the child. I can't see how that is the case for your DTs. Does your ex perhaps enjoy knowing that you worry about the DT's welfare when they are with him? If so this could be an extension of his abuse towards you.

Excellent post MrBuster. Wish there was a like button on MN

Without being dramatic about it, in the eyes of the law, failing to act to protect a child is as abusive as actively causing them harm. You can't just wring your hands and call him a bastard. That isn't enough.

Good God.

Even the nappy rash on its own - how can you send them knowing that they will be spending some of the time there in pain? Nappy rash HURTS!

Add to that - hungry, thirsty, not attended to - poor babies.

Drugging - bloody hell. Just no words really.

You are failing all of your children by allowing him sole care overnight. Yes, your DD too. She's small, of course she is attached to her father. But by allowing her to spend time in his care, seeing the way he treats the babies, she is absorbing a huge amount of damaging stuff. Add to that, he is abusive. Be careful you don't look back and regret this in ten years, when you have an out-of-control, violent, abusive, school-refusing teenager DD who screams at you 'Well I don't care! Dad says I don't have to do anything you say, I can go and live with Dad and he'll let me do what I like and he says you're a cunt who deserves to be alone!'

What I would do:

• Go to GP and HV and document your concerns. Speak to them about the drugging and ask if there's any way you could check this out.
• Document everything re neglect - dirty clothing, nappy rash etc.
• I would also speak to social services, depending on advice from GP/HV.
• Stop overnight contact and tell him that from now on he can have your DD for the day and the twins supervised for x hours. He disagrees? He's more than welcome to go to court and argue his case for being a fabulous, caring, bum-changing, face washing, up in the night responding to their needs Dad.

I can't stress enough how carefully I would think about the relationship he has with your DD. Right now, she's small, she adores him, it's easy for him to 'parent' in a way which doesn't cause her overt harm. All good. Only it's not, because he's a highly deficient, even dangerous parent who - as you can see from his treatment of the twins - doesn't really have that parenting instinct. Your DD will suffer from frequent contact with him, eventually. She will get bigger, and have her own opinions. She will defy him. She will become of an age where he can hurt her to hurt you, if he's so inclined - as per my example above. She will be taught his values, his morals. She will be told that you are bad, wrong, deserve to be defied. He won't back you up when she gets to the age that good guidance is needed.

With his help, she is more likely to fail.

Right now, you have control of her. In a few years, you won't. 'Fuck off, I'm going to live with Dad...'

Do something NOW.

Gosh, reading back I see your DD is 11 already. I thought about 7 for some reason...

Really, this is almost too late. You need to reduce his influence in her life urgently.

Does she love her wee siblings? I would most certainly pull no punches in telling her that overnights are stopping because her Dad is causing them harm.

MrBuster You are completely spot on, chilling how you have described exactly what he does; he over indulges DD1, buys her anything she asks for etc. And yes, I am scared of him and he is indeed a law onto himself; he does as he pleases, changes contact whenever it suits him and tries to control everything to do with them (including whether they attend nursery or not... even though he doesn't even pay the right child support amount or see them more than four nights a month).

Very good point about him possibly enjoying me worrying about DC; he's incredibly bitter and angst and seems to be his mission in life to make mine hell at every opportunity.

You're all right, I need to stop contact immediately for their sake. I have plenty of emails etc proving that he wants nothing to do with them so legally I don't think I have nothing to worry about.

Castle Yes she absolutely adores her sisters, they are her world, she dotes on them. She has a few times actually called him up on things like him not changing their clothes or brushing their teeth. I have no worries whatsoever on that.

Please can you answer why you are so set on them going to him?

Is it because you think it's important all children have a relationship with their father (and you don't want to be seen as one of those women who blocks that relationship)?

Is it because you're desperate for a break?

I think this is very simple. He doesn't want the twins, he never did, and he's made that abundantly clear. At best he neglects them, and at worst he drugs them. He loves his elder DD and she loves him. So, she has contact with him and the twins don't. I honestly can't see the dilemma here.

x-post

Shit - why are you even letting them go?! Contact SS .

Words fail me.

Your dd11 can't go to him either. What he is doing with her is akin to grooming - hopefully 'only' emotional grooming..

To those questioning why I'm still letting them go... I am trying my hardest here, things are never as easy in RL are they? I was trying my hardest to keep a relationship between my daughters and their (poor excuse of a) father as I don't want them resenting me in then years time because I stopped all contact. He is a very abusive man (to me) so it's difficult to see things clearly when you're so into the situation and have been for a long time. It's not easy, believe me and it hurts me to think that anyone would think I don't have my DC best interests at heart.

You've all opened my eyes to how unacceptable it is what he's doing and will talk to my GP, solicitors and stop overnight contact, at least for the twins.

Your dd11 can't go to him either. What he is doing with her is akin to grooming - hopefully 'only' emotional grooming..

So now I'm apparently letting my DD be sexually abused too?! .

I thank you all for your advice, it's been invaluable and as I said I'll be taking action immediately but I think it's time for me to leave the thread now, before it gets completely derailed.

Thank you again so much for your help