Selfish vs martyr - which is a better role model for children?

[Toastandstrawberryjam]

Ideally of course neither. But if it was between the two, what is less damaging for them to see?

So as not to drip feed, I'm often accused of being a martyr by my DH (I don't agree), whereas he acknowledges he is very selfish. His theory is that it's better to get what you want in life no matter who you upset along the way. My theory isn't quite the same.

Hmm. well, being a Friends veteran, I must point out that Phoebe found out that nothing we do is truly selfless.

I'd say that you didn't gain nothing from making the cake -you gained the knowledge that your friend was delighted with something you did and you can remember it for as long as you want to.

Your DH is selfish, from your description, but I wonder if he's been stung by thinking of others in the the past. Perhaps he was generous at one point and was taken advantage of.

The solution is to stop buying him things he likes at the shops. He's telling you that he thinks worse of you for doing so.

It's incredible that you can be with someone for a while, but for it to take marriage and children to really know them. I mean, you must have had an inkling that he was like this before you married him, but not enough for it to put you off?

Baking a cake for friend who's had a bad week is a lovely thing to do, and quite frankly, he sounds like a misery for saying otherwise. Your description of him over this makes him sound not very nice. Socially inept even. Not great qualities.

Having said that, when I pop to the shops for stuff, I get stuff for all of us - or, at the very least - me!! I can't imagine getting nice things for DH and the DC, and not myself.

Maybe you just need to adjust your approach a bit. Do nice stuff for yourself, as well as other people. Win win, surely.

Good luck with living with your, yes, very selfish, DH, by the way.

I don't think making a cake for a close friend or having a voluntary role is being a marter.

You sound thoughtful and caring. He sounds like a cunt, quite frankly.

No I don't feel like I miss out because I do things for others. I genuinely do enjoy doing things to help people or be kind to people. I don't do it for praise or recognition but it does make me feel happy to make someone else's life a bit easier or brighter.

I'm odd about food because I used to have big eating problems but now just tend to view it as fuel, so I might buy nice breakfast stuff as a treat for the family but be happy with a cup of coffee for myself.

But I struggle with for example going on a day out and not picking up a little something for DH and DC, even if I don't see anything I want. Because I get a kick out of spoiling my DC a little bit (not DH though).

I think he was always a bit like this but having children has increased it massively. Whereas I was quite caring before but being a mother has ratcheted that up for me too. So we are now at total opposite ends of the spectrum.

I hate both personality traits, but you don't sound like a martyr to me. A martyr does things for other people and then complains about it.

Being self-critical I think I am a bit on the selfish side, but I do try to be kind and thoughtful and certainly I try not to use anything I may have done for someone in the past as a hold over them typical martyr behaviour. Unfortunately, in your case, I would find it very hard not to contrast your treatment of him with his lack of thoughtfulness towards you.

Selfish only works when you're in some kind of survival situation where your life depends on literally trampling over everyone else. In every other context it just makes you a miserable git that nobody likes. Martyrs are a PITA but people who do nice things for other people without making a big song and dance about it are generally a good thing to have around.

So keep setting a good example to your DCs but suggest you stop buying treats for the thoughtless bugger

You sound lovely & he sounds like a knob who is trying to cover his selfishness by making you feel bad. Carry on as you were just leave off the treats for your DH as he doesn't deserve them.

You are not a martyr, if those are the only examples. You sound generous, kind and thoughtful.
A martyr would make sure everyone KNEW how much it had all cost, how you hadn't bought anything for yourself, how much it hurt to walk to the supermarket. Basically suck every ounce of joy out of the original little joy.

I would rather have you as a friend, sister or role model than your selfish DH.
You will live a happier, more contented, and even longer life (according to some studies)

Both are equally damaging and you come across as people pleasing (the cake buying for him is one such example). I would read up on that particular subject.

re your comment:-
"No I don't feel like I miss out because I do things for others. I genuinely do enjoy doing things to help people or be kind to people. I don't do it for praise or recognition but it does make me feel happy to make someone else's life a bit easier or brighter"

That is the epitome of people pleasing behaviour. They may well not reciprocate your kindness.

I do not like your H's attitude at all, is that attitude he has really what he should be teaching his children about relationships here?.

I'm not trying to sound like a saint, just I seem to permanently feel like I'm behaving in the "wrong way" and I'm so keen for my DC to have a good role model that I'm floundering a bit over this.

I don't complain about things that I do, because otherwise I wouldn't see the point of doing them. I might occasionally get exasperated with my DC if I've spent all day running round after them and they can't be arsed to put their glass in the dishwasher! But I try not to say "after everything I do for you" or similar. I think that's normal though?

With DH its other little things he does that he teaches the DC is ok. Leaving your shopping trolley next to your car rather than putting it back (I'm a martyr for putting it back). I will apologise if I accidentally hurt somebody (catch a tangle in DC hair for example or not hold a door open for somebody if I didn't realise they were behind me) his policy is never to apologise for something he didn't deliberately do. I struggle with this principle.

I probably am people pleasing. That's a childhood habit that I've never lost. But I genuinely don't care if it's not reciprocated, although I do seem to have lovely friends who might not bake a cake but would do stuff for me in return if the need arose. My concern is that I'm setting the wrong example. That maybe my DC need to be "taught" that their needs override others?

I don't think your DC need to be taught their needs override others.

However I think maybe your definition of what is kind could be expanded.

Is it kind to continue to give gifts to people (your DH) when they do not appreciate these gifts, these gifts are essentially abused, they do not seem to even make him very happy? The extreme kindness might actually be enabling him to think his selfishness is rewarded. You could leave off showing him your kindness for a while, at least going above and beyond. Don't tell him about the lovely things you have done for others. You don't have to be horrible either. See if he notices.

But their needs don't over-ride others. Their needs have to be reconciled with those of others. Learning to do that with consideration & fairness is a lifelong learning task. Sounds as though your DH is a bit behind with it.

toast you sound like a genuinely caring person, not a martyr. Ime, martyrs are not self aware enough to think about it the way you have done.

his theory being if I want something I can go and get it anytime I want his comment suggests he knows you like small token gifts butcouldn't give a flying 4x about spontaneous surprises or finding ways to satisfy your needs in the relationship. also he sounds a bit arrogant never to apologise for anything.

I think you aren't setting a bad example to your DCs by being caring and thinking about other people around you. Forgive me for saying it, the "big but" in this is, but make sure it doesn't come across to your DCs that you are a doormat and being too deferent to their DF, that would give a negative message to them.

Do you think in your DHs case that any of this stems from his childhood and upbringing? Was it learned behaviour? What are his parents like?

Things like not being bothered to take the shopping trolley back are signs of lack of social conscience, lack of consideration. If it's a one off, or I'm in a rush I migh have to leave it on one side, but not taking up a whole parking space, but 9 times out of 10 I would take the trolley back (and have never considered myself a martyr) it's just the right way to behave isn't it?

Holding a door open, baking a cake, putting a trolley back, doing a little bit of voluntary work occasionally are all normal things to do.

Being a marter is letting people treat you badly, not speaking up when served the wrong meal in a pub, getting overly exhausted due to constantly helping everyone (neglecting your own need to pace things), not being able to say no when asked to do something

Social conscience is exactly the phrase I have used to him. I think it's just the "right" way to behave and yes if it's lashing with rain and the car park is almost empty and I'm on my own I might consider leaving the trolley there. But I do try and behave in a certain way when my DC are with me. Likewise I try to teach them that accidentally hurting each other or losing/breaking each other's possessions means an apology. But this is apparently "turning them into martyrs".

I guess I could stop buying him things, doing things for him etc but it's ingrained after twenty years of marriage. I just do those things without thinking.

As long as you can get the DC's to reflect upon their options, what they would like to do, what other people need, what the kind thing is to do is, wether or not the kids have the time or stamina to do something, you will help them make good level decisions for themselves.

DH's attitude of every man for himself is very odd and incredibly immature. He sounds like someone who got stuck in the teenage years. What are his family like?

I can say no when asked to do things. I generally don't because I can usually find time. I am sometimes exhausted but that's more from continually worrying about everything. And I don't harp on about being tired.

Sometimes I will fall asleep on the sofa in the evening because I'm knackered from a tough day. This is because I'm a martyr and if I stopped doing things for others I wouldn't be so tired (so I'm told).

His selfishness would make me worry about the future though. What would he be like if you hit ill health?

His family? I guess they are more on the selfish spectrum than the caring one. But they are relatively normal in comparison to mine!

Life can always be rebalanced. If you're doing too much for others (including DCs and DH incidentally) and ending up worn out and resentful rather than energised and happy then it doesn't make you a martyr, it just means you're getting the balance wrong. We all need to have time for ourselves to recharge, relax, have fun and that doesn't mean it's selfish.

What do you do that's just for you?

A side thought, probably incorrect. I wonder if you are a feeder (cakes, breakfasts, treats) because of your food issues. It does seem a little strange that you are supplying special food for people but denying it yourself. I only mention this because I used to work in an office and one lady would always buy us all cream cakes a couple of times a week but not eat them herself

Falling asleep on the sofa is normal when you have small kids!