Is it really "shared" custody if he doesn't provide a bedroom for dd?

[GuiltyAsAGirlCanBe]

I am attempting to seperate amicably with my partner, with whom I have a 3 yo.

He has always been a very hands on father. He will be doing pick ups mid week, and 2 over nights, this fits with both our work schedules. He earns about 2/3 what I do.

I need to have her 5 nights/week as I need to do drop offs to preschool. One of the nights he has her will be midweek. He has announced that when he moves out he will be getting a one bed place or sharing a 2 bed place with a friend as this is all he can afford. Dd will have to just have a camp bed or be in with him. Although she often still ends up in our bed at night, I think once she is at proper school next year she will need her own bed and room.

It would never be an option for me to get a one bed place or share with someone, I have no choice I feel but to provide a proper home for dd. we agreed to shared custody so no maintenance was payable either way, but is it acceptable that he is not providing a proper "home" environment for dd or paying maintenance just because he earns less than I do?

As I already said, we agreed to share custody so no maintenance needed to be paid.

But you may need to revisit that decision if you're concerned about your child needing a bedroom.

He has not even considered getting perhaps a 3 bed shared place with a box room for dd. I just find the difference in attitude interesting.

For the sake of your child how about he gets to keep the current house and you move out, choosing a house you feel is suitable? Best of both worlds.

Morning. I guess it depends whether he can truly not afford a 2 bed place or whether it is a lifestyle choice.

My ex said he could not afford a 2 bed place. He took home £1800 per month. Rent in the local area was £525 for a 2 bed house, £495 for a nice flat. He had no debt and the car was paid for in full. Food and petrol was cheaper at the time. I agree after bills and food he wouldn't be partying every night however many many people would manage and most would want a 2 bed place of their own.

He said he couldn't afford a flat of his own. He chose to pay £50 a week including bills to rent a room. (No maintenance - 50/50 apparently!). What he really meant was his social life is more important than paying rent to provide a bedroom for his child. That to me is not living on the breadline it's a lifestyle choice.

Without figures it is impossible to know if he is being selfish or is genuinely on the breadline.

Im going to derail your point a little and warn you not to end up doing all the crap stuff.
You say you have most of the nights so you can drop her at preschool. Then he has extra time elsewhere. Don't work around him too much, otherwise what's going to happen is you ending up doing all the running (school drops, homework, errands) and he gets decent quality time.
If you are having 50/50 then have it properly, and share everything. Don't let him cherry pick his bits because it's difficult for him to do the PITA stuff.

If he's only having her 2 nights a week then it's perfectly fine that she shares his room. Seriously. It would be ridiculous to insist he increases his outgoings by £££ a month so she could have her own room.
Her home is with you. That's where her bedroom is. He looks after her when you need to work and vice versa, awesome! That will make your life much easier. If that changes and you need to pay childcare then he will need to start paying maintenance, but if you can cooperate for mutual benefit now then well done.
Your set up sounds great, I'm not sure what you are so annoyed about. It's not 50/50 care if you have her 5 nights out of 7 but that's ok isn't it?

43% your ex's situation is about the same as mine.

Yes I am worried I will get all the crap. I will only have her one day at the weekends - because he works that day. My job is seriously demanding and I work long hours, however as he starts work a bit earlier than me it is my respinsibility to do drop offs and hence have dd literally coming to mine just to sleep and be taken to school in the morning. I do worry when we are going to get serious quality time.

I am happy for him to keep the current house and am currently looking for a new place anyway actually. He says he can't afford it.

You've been asked this a couple of times at least, and I can't find an answer to it,

Is he deliberately doing your child out of a bedroom? Do you think he could choose to rent a bigger property if he wanted to?

I think everyone assumed he is on a very low wage. His 2/3rds of your salary may mean he is earning 67k and lives in a cheap location but feels hard done by because he is used to a better lifestyle as you earnt 100k and paid the bills. This would be very different to earning 13k in Central London.

Can he afford the current house?

43, at one point OP said she could only just afford a two bed place so I think that's where people were coming from.

OP, no one has said you don't love your daughter!

I think you are getting to the root of your problem Guilty - you think you are being left with the responsibility of parenting and your ex is cherry picking - the bedroom issue is just part of this.

You really are getting the most ridiculous hammering here and tbh amicable is all very well but sounds to me a little like you are stitching yourself up tbh.

Shared custody is a very specific legal term that infers the right of both parents to have a say in the decision making process. It doesn't define how many nights each of you have or who is the resident parent.

Even in cases of 50:50 residence if you take the Csa as a guideline you can still claim maintenance of each other. The calculation takes into account income vs nights spent with each parent.

I would suggest you start thinking of yourself as the resident parent, ensure that you are on the child benefit paperwork and claim child and working tax credit. This will help you to afford your home.

Of course a child needs their own space and a camp bed for more than a couple of nights a week is ridiculous. Do you know how uncomfortable and unsupportive those things are?

And yes I would have thought it's about time for your dd to have her own bed more and more.

This is absolutely not about you getting at your ex or you not supporting your dd relationship with your ex. She staying there twice a week ffs. It's just making sure she has a decent place to sleep for most of her time

Yes I too think your ex is cherry picking.

Whatever the arrangements I believe both parents need fun time with their children (which is why all to often eow is agreed). Time when child sees their parents as individuals and get a look at who they are as a person, not just cooker cleaner taxi driver.

Shared responsibility is a fine concept, but imho all too often doesn't work out to plan.

Shared custody is a very specific legal term that infers the right of both parents to have a say in the decision making process. It doesn't define how many nights each of you have or who is the resident parent.

On the contrary - The term shared custody has not been used legally for years!
Until recently, the term shared residency was used - but, since April, there are no longer Residence Orders, and the terminology used in the new Child Arrangement Orders is not yet consistent.

In any event, it doesn't matter what it is called. OP you are getting hung up on words. If your DC spends 5 nights a week with you, you are eligible for child maintenance. It is fabulous that you and your ex have agreed a care arrangement for your DD that allows her quality time with both of you. I'm sure you will acknowledge that as he will be responsible for your DD on days where she spends the nights with you, the usual formula for child maintenance may not suit - there is no reason why you can't come to a private arrangement which reflects both the relative income you both have and the costs you each incur.

has the mate he was considering sharing with alreafy got a place, or would they be looking for something to rent together?

if he's not considering a 3 bed place but can afford it, then it's wrong.

that said, the bedrooms don't make it 50/50 care, time spent together does.

based on what he's sugesting it's not 50/50 care, but shared care (unequal shares)

I have to say that it is a sad thing when you say you know you're "lucky" that he wants to be involved. I get what you're saying, and agree with it, but do think that society is screwed up when this comment is in anyway relevant.

If she will be returning home most nights then it isn't shared care imo guilty.

Maybe he genuiely can't prioritise properly afford a two bed place, but the fact is that the arrangement would then not be shared care in this case.

If he's got your daughter for full days during the week he's saving you a lot in childcare. I'm not sure what you really want? Do you want him to have her more nights?

He will be spending a lot of daytimes with her though won't he? So he's got most of the day to day childcare and she has the nights and a weekend day?

The alternative is it all becomes less amicable, he pays you 15% of his salary via CSA, and you pay everything for DD. I suspect that would leave you a lot worse off.
If you will be struggling to maintain your 2 bed place, you are sharing most costs for DD equally and he earns significantly less, it seems a no-brainer that he won't be able to afford 2 bedrooms.
It sounds like so far you have been able to negotiate the best solution allowing you both to work and DD time with both parents, don't jeopardise that.

How close will he be living to you? How is drop off at preschool going to work on the days your DD has stayed at his? And what is going to happen to your arrangement once DD goes to school?
What hours does his potential flatmate work? Is the flatmate going to want to always come home to a preschooler?

Unless his circumstances were absolutely dire, then I would not be too happy about a child of mine staying in a house with complete strangers. Even if he knows them, how well do YOU know them? Do they have jobs which require them to be CRB checked? What if they move out? What about the people they bring around when your daughter might be there? I'd be way less happy about that than the bedroom scenario to be honest.

Not entirely sure why you are getting so badly flamed on the thread. I guess a lot of people woke up in foul moods today. Everyone would understand if there were circumstances that meant it wasn't possible to provide a separate room for a young child, but you seem to be saying that it would be possible on his salary, and he just wants to live the student life, save money, and isn't even thinking about how it would impact your daughter.

I don't know whereabouts you are living, but would it not be feasible for him to rent just a one bedroom flat alone? That way he could put a convertible sofa in the living room, and have that as her "room". At least that way she has some space to herself, you don't have to worry about any strangers in the house, and it's a viable solution even in the medium-long term.

Yes, technically, the CSA would not call this shared residency because of the nights. However, it does sound like your ex is going to be providing about half of the actual care for his child. This means that you don't need to find childcare to fit around your work. It means that she gets to spend a lot of time with her parents.

Honestly, I wouldn't disrupt all of that by going after maintenance from him - partly because it doesn't seem to be in your interests, if you get 15% of his salary but now have to pay for childcare, you will be worse off. But also partly because it doesn't really seem fair, it's a technicality that the CSA bases its calculation on nights alone and doesn't count the time that your ex will be spending with his child during the day.

From the fact that you've been asked the question a number of times and haven't answered it, I conclude that your ex can't afford a bedroom for his child. I don't really understand what you expect him to do about that.

In general, I can't figure out what it is that you actually want - do you want your ex to share the nights equally with you? If so, are you happy to reorganise your work schedule so that you can do some of the pick-ups? Are you ok with the fact that he might earn less as a result so might be even less able to afford a bedroom for his child?

"but you seem to be saying that it would be possible on his salary,"

I don't think OP has said this at all.

i think OP takes a bit of an unfair bashing to be honest

Its not really 50:50 is it? she is providing the home, the $$$ and most of the childcare

she cant say "oh actually I am skint, I am going to share a flat with my BFF to save costs and DD can kip in my room" can she!

it just reads a bit like "50:50" on paper, and in reality she is carrying the main care

That said, its great that DD hasd a supprotive and caring Dad and that is the most important thing for her- so nicely "suck it up" but yanbu to be annoyed a bit

and make the most of the time when he has her! go out, go to book club, go to yoga, meet a new man! the free time is a gift- use it