He's fucking secretly drinking.... again.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

I'm so fed up with it. I grew up with an alcoholic father and I can't put my ds through it.

He's been seeing a drinks counsellor and I've been so proud of him. He got off his backside and went and spoke to Drinksense about 3 months ago and he's been going along to counselling since. He did it because he wanted to save our marriage.

Tonight after a few minutes in his company i got that sinking feeling in my stomach and i knew instantly he's had a drink and it was probably vodka or red wine, not just a beer. We've been here a hundred times so i didn't feel up to a big showdown, him denying it and me getting angrier and angrier. So i just left the room saying i can't be bothered if he can't and i'm sitting alone upstairs trying to get my head around where we go from here. He knows i know and will be getting his denial head on ready to tell me how hard he's trying and i need to trust him and how hurt he is that i don't believe he's not drinking.

I love him and i know he loves me. He's not an aggressive drunk and is the loveliest man in every other way. Is this what it will always be like living with someone with a drink problem? My son loves his daddy so much but every time he does this i'm transported back to my childhood, finding bottles of booze stashed around the house and hearing my parents arguing and me trying to work out if i loved or hated my dad. I feel so low.

Bowlersarm why is it crap and controlling to be bothered by someone else's drinking? (In your words)

Being bothered about things is something we all experience. It's just a feeling, it does not specify behaviour.

Perhaps you mean that being bothered and insisting they stop to reduce your discomfort is controlling. Which I can follow. But that is not what I said. If you read what I said you will see I suggested the OP seek professional help for her discomfort.

Maybe she will find out she can live with it, maybe she can't. I lived with a drinker and it got to a point where I couldn't any more. Now most people would frame this as my ex being a heavy drinker wrecking the relationship but in my view it was a situation that I became very uncomfortable with. Someone else who enjoys drinking heavily may have been totally unbothered.

So it is about working out what you can live with and what you can't. Whether it's a sherry at Christmas (yuck does anyone really do that still) or a bottle of wine every night.

It's amazing how invested we are as a culture in the idea that alcohol is normal, necessary and a basic right. "He sounds like a normal bloke who likes a drink" - really? That's not what I picked up from the OP's posts at all. But let's not talk about problematic drinking! Let's all call it "liking a drink" and it sounds just fine!

I am astounded people on this thread think it is ok for an alcoholic to drink - oh but he is a good father so that makes it alright does it?

Op - so sorry, if you are not happy with the drinking, lying, tricking, furtive stash of alcohol, fear and everything else you are living with then please end the relationship. You cannot be responsible for his behaviour and you do not have to put up with it. There is no justification required. The man has a problem with alcohol - that is the bottom line. You don't like it - so don't put up with it.

Of course he's an alcoholic. If he wasn't then he would just stop drinking.

No one needs alcohol to the extent they drink in secret unless they are an alcoholic.

I've been sober for seven months and it's been an eye opener. When you really think about it, drinking alcohol is RIDICULOUS for so many reasons. There are no positives to it.

You wrote initially that you also cannot put your DS through it.

Alcoholism is a family disease and it does not just affect the alcoholic. It affects everyone around them.

What was his main reason for going to such counselling; if it was done at your instigation or primarily to save his marriage I am not altogether surprised that he has relapsed. Unless he wants to stop drinking for his own self there and address this properly there is nothing that anyone can do to help him.

I note also that he has not even managed three months without drinking and he's relapsed whilst doing this counselling as well. The counselling is ultimately not going to work out.

What is the longest period of time to your knowledge that he has gone without alcohol?.

You have a choice LittleLion but your son does not. Your mother made the choice for her own reasons to stay, you do not have to follow her lead and accept the behaviours that her husband/dad showed her and you respectively.

My dad was an alcoholic and it doesn't mean you put whiskey on your cornflakes every morning, or are violent etc, etc.

He didn't drink for months at a time sometimes, but he was always an alcoholic.

He had affairs, made bad choices in regards to money and other things that he may not have made when sober.

He made awful comments to my mum, sister and I, that will stay with me until I die.

He didn't drive (thank god!), but if he had would he have drunk drove? Probably.

Shopping for my xmas present was him dragging an embarrassed teenager round the shops whilst drunk in the middle of the day. Saying weird things to shop assistants and behaving oddly. Humiliating.

My friends all could see he was drunk whenever they met him. Once when I went to stay at his with friends, he fell asleep on the toilet and we had to carry him to bed. We were about 16. Brilliant!

So to sum up, I totally understand how you feel and to those who think there is no problem as he's 'still' going to work and not beating to - please read the above! It's very damaging for those around and also, usually progresses so he may stop going to work etc.

My dad did. Oh yes and he also died at 56!

Good luck op. I would suggest you leave as unless he stops drinking totally, it is a problem for him and spirals.

Wackadoodle I look into his eyes and don't see the things you expect to see in the eyes of your best friend, soulmate and deepest love. They're half empty, half trying to look sober. And they're small, not wide and open and honest. They're avoiding. And what comes out of his mouth is similarly aimed at trying to appear sober, cracking stupid fucking jokes that i don't find funny. Making stupid fucking comments. When he touches me I can't help but recoil and then I see how hurt he is. The effect of this on me is to make me retreat, feel pissed off beyond belief. I want to get out of the room I feel so uncomfortable.

I think you need to seek counselling to help you address your childhood.

Yet, I am so torn on this, because on the one hand it seems the problem lies with you and your perception and it is all dependent on how much he actually drinks. On the other.....

My dad had an alcoholic phase, and I know you dont need to be violent, or trashing about to make children fear you. A couple of cognacs too many of an evening is enough. He stopped though, after I totally lost it with him aged 17, shouting and screaming how I started shaking with fear just through driving through the city center on a Saturday evening seeing drunks about. My husband is teetotal. I could not be with a man who was not at all times in control over who he is, says, and does.

At the end of the day it is your life, and your childs life, and it is up to YOU to decide if you can live with any alcohol consumed under your roof at all. (After my father in law died from liver disease my mother in law banned alcoholic drinks from her home - Nobody is to drink)

OP is not controlling, drinking is just her deal breaker. If they cant find a middle ground, either through counselling or acceptance of 1-2 glasses a week for him to consume in peace and enjoyment, or him going teetotal to save their marriage, they are just incompatible and with different values. Neither of which are wrong. Just impossible for the other to live with.

P.s my mum kicked my dad out when I was 6 and it was the best decision ever! Even without him in the house the things above happened when we saw him :0(

interesting thread.

OP you need to look after yourself and your child.
you need to distance yourself from your DH - how far you go is really up to you.
His drinking or not cannot be changed by you. You dont like it. You get the help for yourself, then that might help you decide whether you want to live with him or not.
it is a very sad situation i know and that you love him.

It is your life and no one else's experience on MN can really help tbh.

OP - I don't know I'm afraid. But firstly, your husband doesn't even seem to accept that he is an alcoholic. He says he wants to be able to simply consume reasonable amounts of alcohol, rather than quitting? That's not how addiction works.....

His counselling was going well, you guys have been in a good place...and yet he STILL drank, in secret, and then lied about it. Then he turned on the pity tears.

Personally I think you need to work out where your line in the sand is. Will you just keep taking it until he starts deteriorating in other aspects of life as well? Will you accept it until his drinking causes an accident? Will you give him one more chance? Three? Four? Ten?

You need to work out what your limits are, and then tell him. And then more importantly, stick to them.

He seems to be going along to the counselling in order to placate you, but not really taking it very seriously.

Don't some people see that it isn't him "liking" a drink, it's him being unable to not drink that makes it a problem? The OP didn't ask him to stop touching the stuff at all; she was cool with him having a drop now and then. She is not cool with him drinking secretly to the extent that she can tell at a glance he's different, and that is what he has done.

As for how much is too much: the amount that makes his personality change is too much, and that will vary from one individual to another. If someone starts to change after half a sherry, that is too much for that person. If someone downs a barrel and is unaffected by it, presuming they can afford it and aren't going to drive any time soon, that is not too much (although their liver may not thank them for it in the long term but again, effects vary). Asking the OP to post how much her DH drinks as far as she knows, so we, here, mostly (demonstrably!) total non-experts, can decide whether we think it's too much in the context of our own consumption or experience is irrelevant.

He's been out with his mistress, basically. Does it really matter if a man cheats so long as he comes back to his wife at the end of the day? Most of us would say "yes, it bloody well does"! He is giving time, money and attention that should be focussed on his family, on something that is so much more than a mere hobby. It changes who he is and affects his interaction with his family. That is why it is not just "a little of what you fancy", or even quite a lot of what you fancy at appropriate times; it's a thing he can't afford to do, because he has proved he can't do it moderately.

It is difficult to see from what the OP says what the actual problem is with his drinking, other than she doesn't like it, finds him irritating and cringey and doesn't want to be around him. This probably does relate to your experience of growing up with a alcoholic father and is entirely understandable.

However, if your dh doesn't drink much and doesn't behave in an aggressive, embarrassing or otherwise unpleasant manner when he drinks, and indeed goes weeks without alcohol at times it is quite hard to see if the problem is more your past demons than present situation.

IMO it is not unreasonable for your dh to have a drink sometimes. I have a drink sometimes, so do most people. Tbh if someone tried to stop me drinking ever because their parent had been an alcoholic I would probably refuse, as in the nicest possible way it would be their problem not mine.

And it is not unreasonable of you to not like his drinking and to not want to be around it. I think maybe this is a compatability issue rather than a drink issue? Honestly, did he only go to drink counselling because you insisted he had a problem with alcohol or does he genuinely accept and believe this to be the case?

"IMO it is not unreasonable for your dh to have a drink sometimes. I have
a drink sometimes, so do most people".

If he is an alcoholic he should not ever drink alcohol again, the mechanisms to enable him to control his alcohol intake are simply not there. He will never become a social drinker.

He thinks that he can control his drinking, actually his drinking is controlling him. Alcohol is a cruel mistress and alcoholism is truly a family disease.

Exactly what Annie said. This is not something that has happened over night. I was absolutely fine with him having a beer or two in the evening. It helped him relax. I myself have a glass of wine a couple of times a week but it stops at that. Gradually I noticed that he seemed far more affected than the one or two beers I had seen him drink would lead me to think. I discovered a whiskey bottle and knew he'd also been drinking on the sly. I told him I was not ok with that. If he wants to drink then do it in front of me - hiding it made me think he was losing control and it had begun to control him. He understood, said he wouldn't do it again. Fine. He was ok for some time again. Gradually I again noticed the tell tail change in his personality that suggested he'd been drinking something stronger purely for the sake of getting drunk. He became extremely forgetful to the point that I would tell him e.g. don't forget I'm working late tonight and he'd swear blind I hadn't told him. It was so frustrating. I knew he'd been drinking but I had no proof because he'd become better at hiding whatever it was he was drinking. Stupidly I had told him a while back during an innocent conversation that the reason alcoholics drink vodka is because it has no smell so it's easier to hide. The next time I looked for and found his booze it was vodka. This has been a pattern of behaviour for a few years but I myself was in denial and he was so convincing that I was always sure he'd stop hiding it and drink normally and socially. This hasn't happened so a few months ago when it happened again I told him I wasn't interested in hearing denial. I understood that he was probably guilty and embarrassed. But it was taking a huge strain on me so I wanted him to think about it - properly think about it - and tell me what he was going to do. He accepted it was a problem and it was at that point that he decided - I in no way pushed him for the avoidance of doubt - that he would seek help 'to control' his drinking.

To anyone who has never lived with someone with a drink problem it is impossible to explain that this is not about me wanting to control him. It is not about making him stop something he enjoys. It is about him seeing that the point has been passed whereby he controls alcohol. It now controls him. So for everyone telling me that he "sounds like a normal bloke" - does this REALLY sound normal to you? Yes, my current situation is no doubt coloured by my past experiences. But that does not make them not real. I love my husband very much and I wish with all my heart that we can stay together - all of us happy - as a family. Do you really think I would be considering taking my son away from his otherwise brilliant daddy if I thought there was no problem?!

I was never disagreeing with you abhor there being a problem, it just wasn't clear from your previous posts what the problem actually was. Your last post does clarify things more.

Does he have much insight into why he feels the need to drink?

I'm not sure why you've been met with such disbelief lionmansmummy Maybe now you've posted the details people will understand a bit better.

there's a book called "beat the booze" that isn't bad, if you wished to have a look at it. Your husband sounds conflicted and it might be worth a read for both of you.

I really hope he makes the right decision and puts you and your son first.

Little - please don't feel you have to justify your feelings. I remember whenever he started drinking I would feel nothing but fear. Was just so awful. I guess if someone hasn't lived with it they won't understand.

But if he is drinking and lying about it - he isn't a brilliant daddy at all - far from it.

Will he drive after drinking? What if he needs to take your child to the doctor? Or pick him up from somewhere, like a play date? While he be alone in charge of your child, drunk? Can you trust his judgement after drinking?

I've read through this thread with interest as I have experience with alcoholism (my dad) as, sadly, several other posters do too. Little I think you're absolutely right to be upfront with your DH. He sounds like a lovely man with a problem - ultimately he has to be ready to confront this himself. As others have said, this might have been a one-off slip up but it sounds like any alcohol at all is not a good idea. Be as frank with him as possible - tell him how wonderful you think he is and that he is truly a better man without the booze (you may have said you've done this already, apologies). I know from experience that this won't necessarily flip a sudden switch, but it might help if he really understands just how much is at stake.

Also - oh, how I know that "not in the room" look and the "funny jokes". It's just unpleasant.

I really hope you can all stay together as a family, - I wish you masses of luck x

OP - your husband's behaviour is that of an alcoholic, not someone who "just likes a drink".
Asking him to change his behaviour so he doesn't die early or ruin his health irrevocably is not unreasonable. Alcoholism or addiction of any kind ruins lives and families. However, the addict has to want to change - this is the real issue. If they don't want to, they won't. Also, IME the drink they tell you they have drunk is normally about 40% of what they have actually drunk. Drinking until he can't focus his eyes on you in the evening is a very very bad sign - but of course you know this.

I think the issue for you is, you don't want to sit and watch him destroy himself and you don't want your son to witness it either. Unfortunately you can't stop him. My MIL moved my BIL 300 miles away from his dealer and druggie friends - he simply made contact with dealers where he lives now and still drugs and drinks.

One of my relatives is a recovered heroin addict - he voluntarily sectioned himself in order to go cold turkey. He says he can spot an addict at 20 paces and he knows which ones will succeed in kicking the habit and who won't and that the addict themselves has to really want to change. If they do it because they think someone else wants it, they never go sober.

I speak as a person with 2 heroin addicts, a former heroin addict and 3 (living) alcoholics in my immediate family. All the children of said parents have had hugely disrupted lives and were emotionally were impacted to the point of being unable to function within society themselves unless they withdrew from their parental influence. All the said addicts are in severely poor health and look about 10 years older than they actually are. 2 are currently hospitalised for liver and heart malfunction. Trouble is, they never believed it would happen to them and they could drink forever and were immortal. If your husband doesn't really want to stop he won't and you have a terrible gut wrenching decision to make about your future.

Your situation sounds very very similar to mine OP.

I started attending Al Anon a few weeks ago, with great trepidation. It has helped me a great deal. And yes i'm there with people who have parents or partners who fit the 'accepted' picture of an alcoholic - aggressive, abusive, drinking their last £ away etc (my dh is not like this). I voiced my discomfort one night at seeming to have few problems compared to others and someone commented 'it's not a competition, lovely.'

My dh has always refused to seek help, whilst describing himself as 'a drinker.' I can't help him (God knows i have tried) or change his attitude, but I can help myself.

OP if you'd like to PM me feel free.

Maybe if you'd explained about the whisky and vodka earlier in the thread you wouldn't have had the comments you did. The secret drinking does appear to be a big problem (rather than a desire to keep any alcohol consumption from you because you hate it all). So he drinks 2 beers in a socially normal, watching tv together in the evening sort if way, taking slugs of vodka every time he leaves the room to get drunk?
It sounds like he does indeed need to accept that he should not drink at all.

god miggsie how difficult, 3 heroin addicts and 3 alcoholics in the family.

Maybe if you'd explained about the whisky and vodka earlier in the thread you wouldn't have had the comments you did.

Why don't you have the good grace to apologise to the OP for the insulting advice you gave, rather than blaming her - again?