Fed up with DH's long friendship with former lover

[Affie]

Hello. I never post on here but need some unbiased advice and to get this off my chest.

We’ve been married for 15 years. Before we met my DH lived in a European city for five years where there was a close ex pat community and he had a three relationships with British women over that time, including with a married woman. Her split finally came after he returned to UK, nothing to do with him. He has maintained a friendship with her all this time, which I have felt was always one sided, ie he does the inviting she hardly makes contact eg even when in our town visiting her brother. He is not close to his family but certain friendships from the past are important to him.

DH returns to this city every 6-9 months for work, she still lives there. We have 3 children & I work too so I stay home – I have been a few times but it’s not easy as we have poor childcare. This is how they have maintained their friendship, when perhaps for other people it might have faded away.

I am a jealous person and I have accommodated this friendship for 15 yrs + but in recent years it has got me down, she is very popular in this wider friendship group and with his colleagues – they meet up socially. I’m jealous of her lively personality and good looks and as well as the sympathy he gives to her problems (divorce, dealing with children and elderly parents).

Even though he knows I don’t like him seeing her, earlier this year he invited her and other people for a weekend in a rental house at the coast after a work trip, but hid from me she was going, and texted me when she arrived pretending it was a surprise, that she had come with others in the group. I went to his emails and found his email to her inviting her along before he left the UK.

When he came home I confronted him – he was sorry, he got in a muddle cos he knew I wouldn't like her going! I know there is no sexual relationship between them – I just hate it that he cares about her so much, and also that at one point in their lives she cheated on her husband with him. I don’t want her in his life any more. But it’s awkward. If he tells her he can’t see her any more the whole group will find out and people will think I’m paranoid and it makes me feel ashamed. One thing about all this is I think me and DH don’t get enough time on our own – don’t have enough fun – yet she benefits from these trips. I have told him this. I have to say though, otherwise we are happy, it's just this rears its head up around his work trips.

After the coast trip I asked him – and he agreed – not to see her on his own, not to initiate contact. He just returned from a trip there and saw her only briefly for dinner in the larger group. He says he doesn’t like me being upset about it but he doesn’t know what to do. I hate asking him – how long was she there – did you go on for drinks elsewhere etc etc although I have asked him to be open he doesn’t tell me unless I ask. Today she’s emailed asking for his help with a fundraising project. I’ve had enough. I just want her to go away.

Thanks everyone.

How do you know they don't have a sexual relationship?

He cares about her so much that he would rather lie to you than admit the truth about her being expected on this weekend away, and then he makes up a cover-story to you about it. The fifteen year friendship with an ex-lover wouldn't bother me as much as the him-lying-about-it part.

Everyone is entitled to a past and prior relationships, but not everyone should be expected to have them paraded in front of us and be happy about it as if it didn't matter. It does.

"Awkward" to not see her? I don't think so. I expect he just doesn't want to drop her.

Sorry I didn't mean that to be as blunt as it came across. It's just something that jumped out from what you said. Your DH seems to be the problem not this woman.
I would hate this situation, you have my utter sympathy.

Someone will come along and say he needs to cut his friendship to make you feel better ... I disagree - I think you need to deal with your jealousy and realise that ex lovers can be very good friends with no sexual content whatsoever.

You know it isn't sexual. You know she is part of a larger group. What are you frightened of?

People who lie have something to hide, IMO

The one excuse I cannot stand is "I lied because I knew what your reaction would be". There is never a reason to lie and this for me is the worst.

You are entitled not to be lied to. If that means he doesn't see her as he has to lie in order to make that happen then so be it.

I could deal with the friendship (just) but after even a tiny lie I wouldn't be happy. It does seem extreme to make an ultimatum and I understand your worry about friends thinking you are controlling but I reiterate that you have a right not to be lied to.

For me though, it's not her I'd get out of my life (she's not a siren!), it's anyone who lies to me...and then tried to make it my fault.

Perhaps he should tell the group that he deliberately lies and deceives his wife about this woman and he should be ashamed.

You are not paranoid. Your H is a blatant out and out liar. He is happy to lie to you to get what he wants. Deep down this is more important that an honest open relationship with you.

People who lie have something to hide, IMO

I dunno. I mean yes, but sometimes it might just be because it is easier.

I don't think you really have a right to tell your husband who he does and doesn't have as a friend. As long as you are confident it is just a friendship. This fundraising thing? Is it a work thing? Or something personal?

I would be pretty fucked off if my husband started telling me who I could be friends with.

However, the fact that you don't get enough time together is something that requires dealing with.

Sorry, OP, I personally don't think it is fair to veto your husband's friends. I would not accept that anyone else told me who I could be friends with. And I can understand your husband lying to you as he gets a lot out of this friendship and you have arbitrarily decided that he should end it.

One of my greatest friends is a man who I had a relationship with and lived with for four years

He's been lying to you about her so now you can't trust him. I would tell him that this friendship was having a negative affect on the your relationship so it is now time to put an end to it.

Hi I just wanted to say I have almost the exact same problem. Here's my previous thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a1868292-DH-lying-yet-again-Is-it-a-mountain-or-a-molehill-Long . Some of the advice there may be helpful for you too.
Basically 12 years ago DH had a classic emotional affair before the end of his first marriage, immediately followed by a physical affair when his marriage ended. The affair was with a married work colleague. This woman then accepted a job offer in Australia with her husband and children. The whole sordid business was therefore over long before I met DH,and was concealed from me when we met.

The problem is DH now goes for regular business trips to Sydney.Each year he goes twice, and this has revived meeting up with her. Each time he comes back and denies he's met up at all. This has been going on since at least 2012.I hate the fact that I have become skilled at electronically checking up on him,but most times I have found details of their meetings.

I have tried everything, for example endless talking, exchanging articles on honesty in relationships, ignoring it, throwing him out (once for three months), counselling for 18 months, contacting her. Each time I say I'm happy for them to be friends but why can't he be open about contact with her. Each time he promises to be open, and then comes back from Australia saying they didn't meet..... only for me to discover, in fact, they did.Like you he never volunteers anything, I have to ask and then usually produce my proof before he will admit meeting up. The last time it was 3 meetings with her for coffee and lunch in 6 days.

I don't want to hijack your thread but I wanted to say I share your pain and IME, so far , nothing works to stop it. I have a DH who doesn't respect me enough to be open and honest. My endless dilemma is can you really end a marriage over a few clandestine lunches etc. With a woman in another country... but it's the lies that hurt so very much. It's like Magoria says he's happy to lie to get what he wants, and that is more important than an open relationship with me.
Sometimes I feel that I just wish they'd give their relationship another proper go to give me closure, but she clearly wants to stay with her husband.

I can't give advice because I don't know what to do myself, but I'll be watching for other's advice. I so, so empathise - it's just awful.

leopards, in your situation I would end my marriage

your H clearly has zero respect for you

I know AF that's what I'd advise anyone else objectively, but can you really end a marriage over lunches with a woman who lives on the other side of the globe? I don't respect him either.
Is that what OP should do too? I just go on literally for years being devastated over an episode of lying then recovering to some extent, then being devastated again. It's soul destroying but at the end of the day it's a few lunches I think. I don't think there's been infidelity.

oh OP i feel for you, I do but I think your husband is the problem here.

He shouldn't have lied to you, there is no excuse. It is as hurtful being lied to as it is him meeting up with someone that he knows causes upset between you.

Without going into a long background story, I had similar issues with my DP's ex. Looking back I was incredibly insecure and jealous too but I think that she took advantage of that. The minute I stopped caring at all made all the difference. What is the phrase 'smother someone with freedom or something?' Do your own thing if you find your DH doesn't make time to do more things with you. He sounds like he has his jolly fun off on these business trips back to his expat city, oh that would be nice if we could all have that luxury....but where does that leave you left at home looking after the children? Don't stand for it. But don't try to stop him seeing her within this group. Make clear to him that you won't stand being lied to but honestly try as hard as you can to stop caring about her being present and focus your energy on changing other things in your relationship, things you will feel better for.

In a sentence, even if it does bother you, act for all the world like it doesn't. I bet his behaviour will change (for the better, for you). good luck.

it's not about the "lunches" though, is it, leopard

I'm not normally one on MN who instantly jumps to the conclusion that something fishy is going on however

he got in a muddle cos he knew I wouldn't like her going! I know there is no sexual relationship between them – I just hate it that he cares about her so much, and also that at one point in their lives she cheated on her husband with him

Sounds alarm bells to me. She's not just a normal friend, she's a former lover and risked her marriage to be involved with your Husband back when she WAS married.
People who lie have something to hide, don't be fooled by your husbands glib explanations. I'd be mightlily fucked off by all of it if I was you. I'd also be a little less trusting with regards to him and her and his work trips back to teh ex pat city - try and go the next 2 or 3 times.

leopard, you can end your marriage because his continued lying is making you so miserable. He has no respect for you. He respects her more.

No it's not about the lunches it's about the lies and zero respect. It's also about the fact that my and OP's husbands both previously thought that marital infidelity was ok with this woman,and that she thought it was ok too.
Although the lying makes me so very miserable and I wish it would go away, once the business trip fades so eventually does my turmoil.The hurt becomes less acute until the next trip, then it starts again.
In my case if I had no children I would have ended the marriage,after the very first lie; but I do have children and that does make a difference.
It sounds like OPs H is a bit more respectful than mine, he was presumably open about the fundraising email for example?

Sorry 'these' women not this. It's obviously not the same woman OP ( although it may as well be.)

I feel very sad for you, leopard. I doubt your children, if given the choice in retrospect, would want you to accept such a poor substitute for a relationship on their behalf

"The one excuse I cannot stand is "I lied because I knew what your reaction would be". There is never a reason to lie and this for me is the worst."

Sorry Carry have to kind of disagree with this, there can be extenuating circumstances at times.

I once dated a women who was incredibly insecure and jealous and she simply could not cope with the fact that I had close female friends as well as close male friends. I used to dread telling her that any social event might have some of these female friends present as the whole evening would be spent listening to her bitchy comments and snide remarks before the inevitable end of evening row in the taxi or back at home. I had no previous relationship history or existing desires for any of these women, they were just great friends I had known since uni. Despite my consistent reassurances to my ex she simply could not handle or accept these people occasionally popping up in our lives and she started to be very controlling as to when I could see them and made my life very difficult on the increasingly rare occasions when any of these people were present (birthday parties, weddings etc). There were a few times when I had arranged a post work beers with one of my male friends only to find out that one of the female friends had been invited along too, this used to terrify me as I knew that the moment the ex got whiff of my female friend being present at said drinks I would be in for a miserable night of arguing and accusations of infidelity. So you know what, I lied, I told her that I had been for a few pints with my mate and that the female friend was not present, I did not like lying, but then I again I did not like being shouted at or dictated to with regards to who my friends should be either. I ended the relationship soon afterwards as I believed it was becoming/had become abusive. For the record I don’t condone lying to your partner, but sometimes you can see why people do it when faced with utterly irrational behaviour.

The issue here is your jealousy, jealous of your husbands friendship and jealous of the time he has that isn't spent with you. It is also quite telling that he has only just started lying about her being included in the house party and then a partial lie as he didn't tell you she didn't join them but called to tell you she was there (although trying to minimize the impact because he knows how you feel) Of course you could always LTB as the usual suspects will and have no doubt suggested (on the basis that any relationship that falls below perfection is a justifiably reason to destroy a family for) Or you could try seeking some help with your low self-esteem. I am as ever puzzled why posters who are eager to suggest you leave because he lied are also the same who would be saying 'controlling abuser ' should the rolls be reversed and he was dictating who your friends were.

It's not low self-esteem to feel unhappy when someone is actively showing you a lack of respect.

Lying? Concealing meetings? Totally disrespectful.