My mum wants 'to talk' - I'm feeling sick about it

[pippinleaf]

Won't bore you with all the details but I'm nearing 40 and have a very poor relationship/no relationship with my mum. She's been depressed since I was a baby and is very self centred. My father told me that her depression was my fault and my only memories of her are of crying, bit dramatic scenes etc. she used to read my diaries and drag me home from school to take me to task over bangs she'd read in them. She has cheated on my dad for long periods of time and myself and my sister thinks she still is. When my sister had her children my mum was so wrapped up in herself she didn't visit.

When she does see me she wants to create huge emotional scenes - she asks things like 'why don't you love me? Why won't you hug me? I know you hate me' etc. truth is, I don't love her, don't want to hug her and probably don't hate her but I certainly don't like her and want nothing to do with her. The only reason I contemplate a relationship with her and see her about four times a year is because I think it would hurt my sister, who maintains some kind of relationship with her, and my dad refuses to see me unless mum is there (he feels we should all be nice to mum because she's 'ill' and he seems himself as her guardian. He has told myself and my sister that he chose mum over us - fair enough.

I long ago promised myself I would not be in a room alone with her as she would always want a drama which I simply cannot handle. I have been to counselling several times over it and have concluded that our very distant relationship is all I can handle.

Dad is away at the moment, she refuses to go anywhere with him so he's gone alone, and has emailed this morning to say that mum wants to 'speak to me' and my sister. This has filled me with dread, fear and panic. This doesn't mean she wants a nice chat over tea, this means she wants another of her scenes - the last one ended with her telling me I was not allowed to socialise with a work colleague as my colleague is the same age as my mum and 'how do you think that makes me feel?!!!' (She's never allowed me to have friendships with older women as she feels I'm replacing her - which I probably am). I told her I didn't care and she stormed out. Some minutes later hammered on my door to continue to drama and I wouldn't answer.

She lives about twenty minutes away from my house. I'm married with our first baby on the way. I have a very close relationship with my sister who feels sorry for mum but also finds her very difficult.

I just don't know what to do. If I don't see her I'll get dad phoning / emailing me saying I'm selfish. I will get my sister crying saying she feels stuck in the middle. If I see her I will feel physically ill for the time leading up to the meeting and I can see no purpose to seeing her other than to set a stage for her drama.

I simply don't know what to do. Assuming I see her, what can I say? I can listen to whatever emotional crap she wants to come out with but I can't say whatever she wants me to say back. My husband doesn't really know her as we've been distant since before I met him. Hs family are 'normal' and he is sympathetic but doesn't understand.

Help!

I just wouldnt see her and encourage your sister to not see her either. She sounds awful and you don't need the stress when you are pregnant. If your dad says anything point out calmly how similar situations have gone in the past and you are protecting both yourself and your sister - and indeed your mum, if she is mentally ill as he believes, this situation is bad for her also.

Don't see her. There is no benefit to you at all. Make a decision if you can for the good of your health to go no contact. No need to announce it, just stop seeing, phoning etc. Talk to your sister but don't feel the need to listen to endless chat about your parents. I would suggest some counselling and I'd keep posting as people who understand the situation will give excellent advice.

By the way your dad chose your mum over you. Well if he wants it that way explain you are choosing your family over your mum and dad.

My sister does have a workable relationship with her and mum looks after one of her children once a week I think. I wouldn't want their relationship to stop, although it often upsets my sister.i don't ever contact mum. She very rarely contacts me. I think she's sent me one text this year. The only reason I see her is every now and again I feel tension rising from my sister (who is getting an ear bashing from dad about why I'm not seeing mum) and invite them all over. I never see mum alone and will only see if when she's with my dad and my sister and her family. If I went nc her her it would affect my sister hugely and upset my dad who doesn't deserve the grief he'd get. :-( I feel the situation is I resolvable. If it was a 'relationship' or friendship that was this dysfunctional I would have ended it years ago.

I think you have to stop letting your father and your sister control your choices.
Your sister isn't 'stuck in the middle'.
She can chose to meet with your mother without you. However difficult it is for her, it is manipulative to be emotionally blackmailing you like that.
You actually can chose to ignore your mothers summons. You can just not go. Your father and your sister are both using you to make their relationship with your mother a but easier and if you see their emails and weeping in that context it might be easier to resist.

I honestly wouldn't go and I would try to deal with the fall out as dispassionately as possible rather than responding to the drama .

They all sound terrible drama junkies. I would just let them get on with it and back away as far as possible.

Your sister is obviously trying to build a relationship and your mum having her DC's is part of that, but if that frequently causes your sister to be be upset I can't think it is very good for her DC's.

You don't have to see her. She is just being controlling. You have to learn to grow a tougher backbone- I have a very toxic mother myself and it has taken me a long time to get to the point where I actually don't care anymore. Your sister is an adult. You don't owe her anything and if you don't want a relationship with your mum then she will just have to cope with it - maybe if she finds your mum just as difficult you standing up to her will give her a green light to do the same.

If anyone says you're selfish just shrug like you couldnt care less and say, "yes I am aren't I". Don't elaborate, don't act bothered. Just shrug and carry on. You don't owe anyone any explanations.

Your family sounds pretty toxic. Your Dad is enabling your mother - don't paint him as innocent in this, he's made his choice.

Maybe try hanging out on the stately homes threads?

I would just stop responding or having contact at all. Your sister can do what she wants, but thats her choice. Personally I wouldn't want someone like that looking after my kids - would you choose a CM who behaved like your mother does?

Looking after yourself including your mental health is not selfish!

You need to choose you and your new family now over your Mother, Father and sister. You need to protect your baby from them and the emotional abuse that your Mother would and will load upon your precious child if you allow her too. Your sisters child is probably already been subjected to emotional drama . You are the Mother now.

You are an adult now and you can make adult choices. Stress is not good for you esp with a baby on the way.

You can just bounce the email you know. Or not answer. Or say 'no can do'. Or be busy at every meeting they suggest. Or just not turn up and go out for the day. Or go, tell them all to have aword with themseves, stop being just drama llamas and then go and do something less boring instead.

My father told me that her depression was my fault

You don't actually believe a word of that, do you? Because it isn't and can't be your fault and is a horrible thing to say.

Maybe giving birth initially caused her depression, obviously I don't know and probably nobody would know by now (PND would certainly have cleared up after 40 years!), but that is not the same as it being your fault, and what a hideous burden to lay on a child. If anything his enablement has caused her to stay ill, by not forcing her to get treatment. (However he's probably just lashing out for someone or something random to blame for a situation he feels powerless in, or slightly guilty about, and has fixed on his own child. Would you ever do that to the baby you're expecting?) He's even told you straight out that he puts her welfare before yours - something he is proving with this current exercise. I am very sorry that Nature has dealt you and your sister such poor specimens as parents.

It's so easy to type, and so hard to do when it's your own family that you've been conditioned to accommodate, but: Just Say No! However nice you are your mum still isn't going to be nice back. She doesn't know how, poor dear.

I sympathise with you pippin as I experienced the same situation. Without going NC ,which you have explained you can't bring yourself to do, you are already doing all you can to minimise the effect your DM has on you.
Just remember that what this woman thinks, feels and wants out of life is of NO IMPORTANCE to you. If you could think of her as a complete irrelevance, which basically she already is, then perhaps she would cease to be able to hurt you.
It feels as though you think you HAVE to meet her. So now you need to develop strategies so that during this meeting you can protect yourself.

You can confront her of course as she sounds like a manipulative bully. However, I think that as you are pregnant, you need to stay calm and not rise to anything she says. It is not appeasing her, it is detaching yourself from her. You can listen to someone's words without hearing them.
and no one can do any thing to you with words unless you let them.

My heart goes out to you. Keep repeating to yourself 'I don't need you, I don't want you in my life, as she is speaking.
Also you only owe it to yourself to do things in your life that make you happy. You owe nothing to anyone else. Certainly not your sister and enabling Father.

Can you meet her somewhere public? Therefore if she starts kicking off you can just walk out? Being in a public place will also reduce her ability to go in a rage.

Or phone her and just put the phone down if she gets ridiculous.

Her behaviour is not your fault. Nuts completely her choice and I doubt she would behave like that to someone who wasn't close family so it isn't reasonable.

It would upset my dad who doesn't deserve the grief he'd get

Your dad didn't protect you from your mother when you were young, told you her depression was your fault, and presumably didn't encourage her to get treatment. That is shocking, and he doesn't deserve your loyalty.

To contrast, my mum had severe PND after she had me, and was in hospital for a few months. It was a very stressful time for my dad, and I think he only managed to look after me and my sisters with the help of both grandmothers

My dad had his faults, but neither he or my older sisters have ever implied the depression was my fault (even though it technically was due to me). Your father has behaved badly too, and as PP have suggested, it would be better if you could you detach from your family and focus on your new family.

I wasn't sure I'd read that right - your father's gone away but he's the one emailing you? No doubt she's manufactured this drama now to punish him for being away from home and make his life more difficult too.

Since she is choosing to communicate with you through your father, and he is letting her, I think you write back to him to say: the last time my mother wanted one of these talks it was to tell me who I could and could not socialise with at work. These scenes are ridiculous and I will not tolerate them. Please advise her that I don't wish to see her, and please be advised I'm not interested in discussing this with you either. I've had enough of the melodrama and I won't be participating.

If she turns up, don't answer the door. If your dad phones to tell you you're selfish, tell him again you don't wish to discuss it and hang up.

I would go to the stately homes thread and have a good read at the books that are there.

I would also look at the enabler, which is something your dad is guilty of.

Once you are a little stronger, send your sister over there too.

You do not have to respond to any summons, by anyone at anytime.

Do you think your mother treats you worse than your father and sister? Do you have the role of 'difficult one' in your family? You know, your response to her is actuallu the healthiest: not pander, not accepting her behaviour as 'just her' and your lot in life to put up with. Maybe your sister and father want you to keep seeing her because it makes them more 'right' in their decision to ignore her bad behaviour OR they are scared that she will direct her vilest behaviour at them if you are not there to pick up the slack. Either way, as PP said, they are adults and it's not your responsibility to shield them from her shit.

How very stressful for you.

You've nailed it, you say in your OP very acutely, this is about your mum wanting another dramatic scene. Your role is as a prop for her to have it - it's about being used. There is nothing for you in this meeting, and you are well aware it will be detrimental to you.

If you're not a good girl and co operate with enabling the scene she wants - probably for release generally, it's unlikely to actually be to do with you that your mum has built up this head of steam, she sounds an unwell lady - then your dad will add guilt and shame on you because that usually works to compel your co operation, and your sister will be upset about being stuck in the middle which sounds like it translates as an expectation that you will do as you're told so they stop putting pressure on her.

Honey, I've been there. You're not a child in this situation any more although I bet you feel like one. Every time you give in to this pattern of emotional blackmail you are taking the role and script they give you and being that child. What will change it is deciding on boundaries and holding to them. So no, you won't turn up to be the target of your mum's need to act out, you don't need to explain unless you want to, a cheerful no, too busy will do. Your calendar's stuffed for weeks right now, hectic time of year. Block your dad. Don't answer his calls or read his mails. He will kick off, emotional blackmail on you usually works and he will try hard to make it work again, but it can only work if you co operate. He wants you to believe the price of non co operation is too high to pay. You have nothing to lose from someone treating you this way.

Your sister needs to sort her own boundaries out, if she feels stuck in the middle that's her job to make it clear she doesn't appreciate it and won't co operate. Not to pressure you to give up and do as you're told so they stop using her to emotionally blackmail you.

If you decide to meet her can you bring your dh/dp or someone supportive whom understands the situation along with you. I find it helps with my mum (similar situation).
After I had dc I found it tougher initially but a more clear cut decision to go nc or limited and 'supervised' contact only. I find I m a much happier wholesome and contented person when I keep a bit of distance.

I hope this is not out of place, but think about why your dad and sister want you there for these dramatic outbursts. Is it because they are all directed at you? Maybe subconsciously they are desperate for you to still be involved because the focus, the banning of things, the weeping and wailing is focussed on pippin. If it is focussed on pippin it cannot be aimed at them. Are your Dsis and DF actually using you as a punchbag. Let's get pippin in, let Mum de-stress herself and let things boil over. Until the next time.

If this is the case, it may be the unconscious actions of two equally bullied people. It may be more conscious. Either way you do not need to be the punchbag. Either go NC (which sounds like a marvellous idea tbh) or meet and as soon as you mother kicks off just leave. Stand up, "I do not need to listen to this. You have no right to say it to me." Walk away. Leave the house.

Good luck. Keep posting - there is some amazing support on here. You situation sounds awful and I am sending you an unMNetty

It is your sister and your Dad drawing you in to this

I would tell them to make their own choices and negotiations a d leave you out. If your Mum is on at them, their reaction should not be to pass the hysteria down the line to you but to say "Pippin can mAke her own decisions, it's nothing to do with me so I can't / won't discuss it' and repeat like stuck record.

Just stand firm and clear and tell your sister and Dad that you will not engage in third party, second hand dramas and that's that. Keep telling your sister your e her, wi always want to see her, but you are not prepared to be collateral or a human sacrifice in a drama with your Mum

I know it is hard, we have a family member who acts like your Mum and for the people who remain hooked in and guilt tripped by this person it has been a lifelong misery . Real misery. Those who have stood up to the person, refused to play the role in the drama, have fared ok and in the long run it hasn't affected the relationship with the others. Drama queen still needs them for the drama so hasn't cut them off, involved players need sane relationships so haven't cut themselves off from those who stepped out if the emotionally abusive dance.

Your Dad, having said what he has said, has no right to guilt trip you into being part of his wife's drama . He, and she, can ask, you can politely and firmly say no.

You need to concentrate on your OH and baby, you don't need stress and mind games when you're pregnant. Either take OH with you or talk to her by phone - I'd be tempted to talk to her like you were addressing a child having a tantrum and please visit the Stately Homes thread.

Just stress to your Dad that as you know from past experience the dealings with your Mum fill you with a lot of stress that you won't be able to do that at the moment as you are worried about what the stress will do to the baby.

If you're Dad says, you're being silly or selfish. You need to say that it has never been different before, so why would it be any different this time. You already have anxiety over it and you are not willing to put yours or your baby's health at risk.

It's time you put your new family first. Don't feel bad about it. Be clear. Your father has already told you that he will put his wife before you. Awful though that is, it is his right. Just as it is your right to put yourself and you family before you dm or df.

The best thing with toxic parents really is no contact. At the very least I think you need to consider this until your baby is born. It is perfectly reasonable under the circumstances no matter what your dm or df tell you. You don't need to justify it.

Stately homes thread. They will help you go no contact with this pair of toxic people who don't deserve kids.

Oh BTW there is nothing wrong in having other "Mum" figures in your life, as long as you don't over burden them. They can be of any age.

I'm always pleased when my DD has people who will look after and mother her.