How to get over the resentment over lack of "engagement"?

[ethelb]

In May I had a thread on here about a discussion I had with DP about setting a date to get married. He had said that sounded like a good idea. A few nights later I said to him that I wanted to seriously start asking round about what was a good date for our families, but he flipped his lid.

He said that we couldn't afford it (we can afford something small actually and I would be paying) and that it was irresponsible to organise a wedding when we didn't know what was happening with my job. This is true. Long story short I handed in my resignation two months later to run my business full time. I'm a few weeks in and it is going ok. He had just started a new job after two years of uncertainty following an earlier job loss.

He also made a huge big deal about how he didn't have a ring so how was he supposed to propose? I said that I didn't want a big Disney proposal, we have been together for nearly six years, have already discussed getting married at length (ie I kind of realised I wanted to get married about three years ago and him about two years ago). I thought we could just set a date and maybe get a ring if he was game.

He was unhappy with this saying that he wanted to have a story to tell people about our proposal. He also made a big deal over how he "didn't even know what kind of ring" I liked. I said I wasn't bothered but we could go looking if he wanted to. We spent a morning looking at styles a few days later. I settled on a few ideas.

Since then he has obviously, not proposed. And I'm starting to feel he never will. But partly due to his personality rather than not wanting to.

To add insult to injury I was asked when we were getting married FIVE TIMES in the space of a week a while back. I'm sick of just smiling and nodding. There really are very few reasons why we shouldn't be married. I'm getting very resentful of his demand that he proposes when I just can't believe he would ever get round to actually organising and doing it.

For example, we recently had a massive bust-up over the fact that he had said he would book a holiday this November for our 6th anniversairy. I have booked all previous holidays, and told him it was his turn. I would like to point out he took 2.5 years to actually get round to planning on booking this holiday. We sat down, decided on the hotel etc and he said he would book it. I asked him six weeks later if he had booked it, he said no and revealed he hadn't even booked the time off and I'm afraid to say I saw red. I absolutly lost it and had a massive go at him about how he never, ever plans or books anything and how if he can't book a hotel and flights how on earth I can believe that he will ever propose?

He booked the holiday and was very upset that he had upset me and admitted that he does make excuses to avoid doing things (he does), and I feel terrible about that.

However, today I booked some stuff in for his birthday this weekend and I'm so cross about how easy it was and how incredibly easy it would be for him to just fucking propose if he wants to do that so much. I'm resentful that I have organised something nice for him. I'm thinking of cancelling as I can't imagine enjoying it with him as I am so upset about his behaviour. How do I get over that?

By digging his heels in I just meant he refuses to be rushed. I didn't mean he has to be dragging kicking and screaming to 'pop the question'.

Have you issues with his family? Is he notoriously stingy? Does he worry that once engaged you're instantly going to want to ttc?

No I couldn't do this.

I think sometimes a relationship can be fine and dandy, but if both people want fundamentally different things, then it's just not going to work. This guy is doing the classic thing of (presumably) feeding you lines about loving you and wanting to spend his life with you, but his actions aren't reflecting that.

I resent the fact that he see's this as "HIS" thing which you are intruding on. This is 2014. Many people make a joint decision to get married with no big proposal. Also, if he wanted to do a big proposal then he has had plenty of fucking time. If this was literally ANY OTHER THING, then the idea that the man held literally all the power on the decision would be considered ludicrous.

The fact that he used the "I don't even know what rings you like" line is pretty pathetic. How many years has he had? It just goes to show that for all your conversations about marriage, the subject doesn't even register on the horizon for him.

If you aren't ready to cut your losses, then you need to tell him that you will be proposing to HIM in 2016 unless he does it first. It's the next leap year, so it won't hurt his puny man balls by cutting through tradition.

Then you really have to really throw this from your mind. Forget all notions of proposals and marriage. That way you can't be disappointed.

Then at midnight on 31st December 2016 you can get down on one knee, present him a nice watch, and ask him.

If he blusters or moans or tries to wriggle out of it, then you have your decisive answer. He doesn't want to marry you.

At which point you will have to leave, if marriage is something that you want. Don't forget that marriage brings a lot of legal protections when children come along. Don't throw them by the wayside.

You sound deeply unhappy op.

Life really is too short to be with someone who is half hearted about you.

I proposed to my first husband. He really didn't want to get married with hindsight but I kept creating reasons why he didn't want to when really he just didn't love me enough. So I asked him and it was all a bit like pushing water up a hill from then on. We did get married but his heart was never truly in it. He left me 2 years later for the girlfriend he had before me that he'd found on Facebook!

Some years later I am now remarried and my dh was very keen to get married early on.. when he did propose he spent a day choosing the ring and took me to the bench we first sat on together on our first date and got down on one knee. It was very romantic.

If someone wants to marry you, they will be enthusiastic about it. Don't settle for less.

What would be a waste?

Please google 'sunken costs fallacy'

You don't want all this time you've been with him to be a waste... but if things don't work out, then every day you spend with him is just adding to that wasted time.

Think about all the time you WILL waste if you stay together and you have to continue being resentful and unhappy.

Life is short and to me the biggest waste is staying with someone who does not feel the same way about you. The longer you stay, the more time you waste.

"I don't want to drip feed but he feels (as do I to a degree) that we are already a lot more committed to each other than many married couples due to the number of things we have gone through together (mental
illness, job losses etc)".

He can make such pronouncements all he likes but you are not committed to each other through marriage and your own legal position is extremely vulnerable. He knows this. I would still question his level of commitment to you. He has not made a legal and public commitment to you to make you his wife and may well never do so.

This from him as well is completely irresponsible on his part:-
"I have tried to discuss the possibility of not being married but having legal protection re finances etc which he doesn't want to do as neither of us are against marriage".

He does not want to ensure there is a degree of legal protection?!!
He is not making any moves towards marriage either is he?. Does he live on Planet Denial?.

You're heavily emotionally invested as well but the fact remains that in law you are still seen as two separate individuals who are not related to each other. If he dropped dead suddenly you would likely find yourself well up the creek in terms of finances quite apart from having to deal with your own grief at his passing. You would likely be reliant on his parents goodwill towards you and would not be able to choose a headstone for him. You would also not be able to claims a Widows Allowance as you are unmarried.

Do not also fall into the "sunken costs trap". The damage has already been done.

I think you want marriage more than he does; if he wanted to marry you he would move heaven and earth to do so and not put obstacles up in the way. You are perhaps to him the "she will do for now" woman. Such men do not change.

I would carefully consider your own future in this relationship going forward now.

Have you issues with his family?
Yes major ones. We have been in counselling over his horrible father who he adores. However, his parents seem to like me.

Is he notoriously stingy?
Yes very. A common excuse for not doing things is money. Including things for him ie he doesn't buy new clothes even when needed as he will take a swift look at a catalogue/shop announce it costs too much and will never revisit the possibility of buying something again. Similarly he has pissed of friends by not wanting to go out with them due to cost.
I have frequently paid for treats like holidays in the past, which I why I put my foot down over booking this holiday (2.5 years ago). He is well aware he still owes me a few holidays and has been getting better over the past couple of months about buying his rounds in pubs etc. He is however very generous at Christmas, birthday and valentines day towards me, to give him some credit.

Does he worry that once engaged you're instantly going to want to ttc?
I'm not sure. He was a bit upset about a pregnancy 'scare' that came to nothing last week. Looked quite disappointed when I told him my period had finally turned up.
Interesting you should ask as the big worry I have is if we do get married is that he is going to be unable to make up his mind about when to TTC.

I am 27 he is 30 btw. No kids yet.

Why on earth do you want to marry a stingy man? It's the most unattractive quality anyone can have.
Your 27, move on. He's done you a favour by not proposing.

You're 27?!. Blimey there's a whole lot of life ahead of you yet.

By staying with him you actively stop yourself from meeting someone who may well go onto marry you and give you children if you want to be a parent.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up?. Think about that.

You are truly selling yourself short if you remain with him.

These two sentences of yours are particularly sad:-
"He is well aware he still owes me a few holidays and has been getting better over the past couple of months about buying his rounds in pubs etc. He is however very generous at Christmas, birthday and valentines day towards me, to give him some credit".

But that is all show to keep you where he wants you. He is meanness personified as well. Marriage to this man would certainly shackle you.

He does not want to change any aspect of your lives together; he does not even want to put in place any degree of legal protection for you or he if either of you were to drop down dead next week.

There are more red flags about him and his dysfunctional family of origin (they are another problem in their own right) than at a Communist party rally. You need to pay heed to all this properly. He has likely procrastinated his whole life, you are not going to ever change that mindset of his because his attitude is too deeply ingrained.

If you have children with him every other conversation will be about how much things cost. Children eat through money like no tomorrow. It will just be one long constant battle about the children needing things and him moaning about having to buy them.

why on earth are you trying to force this pillock into marrying you ?

fgs, find some dignity and walk away

I feel embarassed for you

Sorry but he quite obviously does not want to marry you.

In my mind, if you agree to get married that is an engagement. You don't need a 'proposal' to make it 'official'. We just decided to get married and then we set a date (we did buy a ring as well).

He also sounds tight as fuck, which is not a good sign.

"he is very upset that I don't believe him when he says he wants to marry me"

Perhaps try telling him that the only way you will believe him is when you set a date and tell your families?

Seriously, make sure your contraception is a good as humanly possibly, and if no proposal by November, think hard about how long you're prepared to be kept dangling.

He is tight with money, emotion, commitment. What's to like? Honestly you are worth so much more than this.

Don't waste your time. It would be hell on Earth to be shackled to a man like this. He will drag you down. He already has. You are miserable.

Leave him to his problems.

He's not worth it.

And yy to sunken costs fallacy.

Plenty of time for you to find someone else who thinks the same as you

This nobber isn't it

Let's be realistic here, he doesn't want to spend the money on a ring or a wedding. Imagine what your future will be if you marry him.

Be careful what you wish for OP.

He doesn't even want to spend any money on a holiday with you.

Why do you feel so bad about yourself you are willing to chase a man like this, who doesn't want to marry you or even spend on a holiday for you, who has to be cajoled into a round of drinks and spend money marrying him?

Jesus wept!

...and you are also willing to fund the wedding to this piss taking cheapskate ?

what happened to you, that you would go full pelt after something so utterly shit ?

My own son is 30 and recently married. His wife is 28 and they'd been together 2 years. I know she's wanted to marry for at least a year. He 'finally' proposed quietly on a Sunday morning during breakfast. No ring, no 'Disney', just "Shall we?". They were married that next Thursday at City Hall. No one knew until it was done, not even the parents. I asked them why the 'secrecy' and he said "Mum, I love her, she loves me, and we wanted our marriage ceremony to be 'just ours' not just some big party for everyone". But they are having that big party this weekend for us all to celebrate.

Here's the point; your DP is old enough to know what he wants. If he really wanted to be married, you'd be married. If it was just a 'money thing' stopping him, he'd be honest and tell you that and that he wanted to be married at the Registry Office. His blather about a fancy proposal and a ring are just a smoke screen.

That doesn't mean he doesn't love you. It doesn't mean he doesn't envision a wonderful future with you. It just means he doesn't want to be married and is afraid of losing you if he admits it. It's up to you to decide if that's what you want for yourself. If marriage (not a wedding, not a fancy ring, just being married) means that much to you then you need to tell him so and tell him you'd like to go to the Registry Office on (insert date) and just 'do it'. If he refuses, you'll have to make a decision as to whether or not you can live with the 'status quo'.

I think you need to sit down and have a chat about this. You need to know where you stand, and if he is adamant he wants to marry you there's not much else you can do except wait for him to propose. Are his parents still married?

I think you need to sit down and have a chat about this. You need to know where you stand, and if he is adamant he wants to marry you there's not much else you can do except wait for him to propose. Are his parents still married?

I really hope the absolutely unanimous response to your thread will make you reconsider

somehow I doubt it though

I don't feel I forced my DH into marrying me.

I told him what I wanted and I gave him a choice, it was his choice to propose, he could have walked away

27! Jesus Christ lady, run for the hills. You have soooo much time left to find a great guy who can't wait to marry you, have kids, all the rest.

Totally agree with Chase about the 20s model, incredibly common to have a long-term relationship throughout the 20s and then move on.

I know, I know, you are thinking, but I love him and I can't imagine finding anyone else like him.... but you CAN, please trust us old ladies here. So many of us had that 'soulmate' in our 20s but ended up with someone even better later.

Don't think of them as wasted years. Personally I think it's good to have serious relationships that don't work out before you settle down, so you can make lots of mistakes and learn from them.