I have no idea what to do about my ex-DH and DDs

[LoafersOrLouboutins]

I was with my (now ex) DH for 13 years, we met at uni and divorced last year. ExDH is Iranian, I'm white British. Cultural differences were never an issue for us and ExDH wasn't a practising Muslim by any means; he drinks alcohol and we lived together for years before getting married. He loves Iranian food and music so it was more the Iranian culture which was a part of our lives than DH family's religious beliefs. We have two DDs together (ages 5 and 2) and we were very happy, DH was very supportive of my choice to go back to work full time 3months after each DD was born and I was fine with him working away often. Then when DD2 was 7months old he just broke down and said he couldn't carry on with the way things were, it felt wrong to him and he felt like he was failing our DDs. I tried my best to get to the heart of the matter but a week of blazing arguments followed, I left our home in London with our DDs to stay with my parents in the countryside for the weekend. I would often do this when DH was working away and I told him it was to get away from the arguments but we would all be back on the Monday. I did return on the Monday to find DH had packed his things and gone to Iran. He rang me a few weeks later and spoke to our DDs on the phone, we were raising DD1 to be bi-lingual so he spoke to her in Farsi, I'm not sure what he said and she has never told me (although I'm not sure if she remembers it now). ExDH has since inundated me with emails of his love whilst divorcing me(!) and rings me at all hours to cry about how he misses our DDs. DD2 doesn't remember him but DD1 does and misses him a lot, she goes to a weekend Farsi club and we still do Iranian cultural things but she wants her daddy. I KNOW it would be hugely unsafe and irresponsible of me to take them to Iran, which is what my exDH begs me to do as he says we could start a new life there, (Betty Mahmoody comes to mind) but I feel like I'm failing my DDs. They're missing out on their father, who still loves him and a part of their identity. I'm so angry with my exDH but I also don't know what to do. I'm really struggling with being a single parent and I feel torn in three directions; my parents, myDDs and my exDH. Sorry if that was a rant and possibly should have been posted on the relationships board. Any advice?

Sorry no real advice to offer, but I recently found out that most high street banks no longer offer safety deposit boxes (since 2012). I am not sure if smaller financial companies do. I am also looking for somewhere safe for documents (actually in event of fire and didn't want a home safe).

Tired, there are a few private firms who offer the same service- one called Metrosafe or something has two branches in London. Makes me sad- one of the things I loved about cashiering was standing in the safe and looking at the ancient suitcases and boxes and wondering what was locked away in them.

Nothing to add to the great advice you've already had here OP. Hope things work out for you and you and your girls get back onto an even keel.

I don't know what to suggest about Farsi - once their dad realised they don't speak it anymore it could cause a problem, and another language is a great gift. Tbh he could be talking to them in English and you wouldn't be listening in either.
Based on my experiences of absent fathers and adoption etx I would make both girls a scrapbook and put in bits and pieces of Iranian culture and photos of daddy with space for letters and cards he might send. I would remove all other traces of him from the house, tell them some people aren't very good at being daddies and that's sad. I would put good and bad into the Iranian scrapbook but in a neutral way. So put the information in that in Iran daddies are in charge of the children but not in a loaded way - children can work it out.

Just to reiterate what others have said : Only go to Iran if you are prepared to lose your children. Distance yourself from direct conact with friends who were mutual friends with your husband. Stop the Farsi classes where your dd would have contact with such people without you. Monitor phone calls, put them on loudspeaker if possible. Go to Devon, a move to Devon would be less disruptive than possible abduction. There have been so many high profile cases where loving, caring mothers have facilitated contact with estranged exp's only to find that a contact session has ended on a plane. If he is determined your ex could easily get Iranian passports and take the girls out. This is all 'worst possible case' but keep them close love. Talk about Daddy and talk to Daddy but no contact without you.

OP.
If he really loved you and your DC he would not have left you.

I have nothing to add to what the Pp posters said about Iran and the dangers. But I can input on the subject of moving. My father had a job that meant the family moved about a bit and it had very little negative impact on me. In fact I think it helped me learn to make new friends and social groups, a skill I use as an adult.

Please don't think that moving the kids will have a negative impact on them. Kids are kids, they adapt astonishingly well, especially when that young.

Good luck.

DD1 spoke to ExDH on the phone yesterday. The phone was on loudspeaker but I couldn't understand what he was saying because he spoke to DD1 in Farsi. DD1 was in tears by the end of the call but Farsi club has now stopped, he'll soon realise neither DD is progressing with Farsi and will be REALLY angry. The DDs are leaving London next week, I've handed in my notice and have taken just 2 weeks holiday (will be with my parents) so we won't be in London by the time he realises. I doubt he would show up at my parents house but they live in a very traditional village in a gated house... A 6ft Iranian man lurking around would soon be noticed! DD2 doesn't show any excitement at all when he speaks to her on the phone, I think she'll be the least affected. The scrapbook is a great idea. I'm going to start making it tonight. Should I include my wedding photos? I'm think a short history of Iran (nothing too detailed but the basics of when Iran became dangerous and why it is bad for children to go their with or without their mummy) and pictures of ExDH with some written memories? The not all men are good at being a daddy is great, in the future (as this is something I'm sure they'll want to talk about again) i'm going to explain again that Iran is a dangerous place but daddy chose to move there, he didn't want to stay in London. Daddy isn't very good at being a daddy but he is a very good doctor (is that ok? I want my girls to understand why I wouldn't take them to Iran and why their father is a dangerous man but not internalise too much negativity?). Thanks again, I'm going to report this thread so it can be moved to relationships. It's been a great help to me and I'm sure there are others on my situation who may find this thread of use xx

My DF has just sent me the key emails from ExDH for the week. I haven't seen the bullshit ones but in his serious emails he asked about how the girls are coping with the summer, whether I take them to Hyde Park for ice cream (I refuse to tell him of our whereabouts at all, he might camp out there for a week!) and for a picture of the DDs. He also wants to know whether DD1 will be on her prep's netball team. Obviously I won't mention that she won't be at the same prep from September. Once we've moved to Devon I will stop replying at his emails.

Yes I would put he was a good doctor if it's true. I did it gently so kept a book shed been given with an inscription and social services suggested a photo album that was hers. I just have the simpler version - I think for your dds to have a bit of information about Iran means you're not hiding it, it's not that exciting (because it's not unknown) and factual things like girls can't so everything they are allowed to do here (if that's true) alongside Iran has some lovely food presents facts not 'mummy's warped view' (as it could get seen by a teenager!

I think when it comes to the scrapbook, you can feel your way over time, OP.

Yes to positive things about him as a person- basically, all that you've said above seems pretty fair.

From what you say about the move, it sounds as if you are planning to cut contact as soon as you can, but then you say he'll soon realise about the Farsi not progressing - sounds a bit confusing, I can't work out exactly what the plan for contact continuing is. A few thoughts:

• A slow retreat would almost certainly be a better approach than, as you say, angering him. Also, something that can be explained fairly reasonably, because the last thing you want is for him to get wind that you are trying to cut him off and turn up, or worse, look into abduction. So, the move - would it be better to say that you were having problems at work, or were offered a much better deal, or had been threatened with redundancy - something to EXPLAIN the Devon move? Parental illness? Lull him into security that you have a reason to move that isn't him. Then, the Farsi. Well of course there isn't Farsi club in Devon. Yes, they will still have all the exposure to Farsi that is possible. If he doesn't like the fact that they aren't progressing, well, that's his fault for leaving the family, isn't it? Cut him off with that one. Then when in Devon, start the retreat. I won't say more because as I say I'm not sure exactly what your plan is.

• Could DD1 tell you what he said to her? If it's a lot of emotional pressure about how he misses her, then you can pull him up on that, and raise the possibility that if he's going to be like that, it might be better for him to talk to them less often, as they are beginning to associate him with stress and trauma, and he wouldn't want that...

Well done on all this by the way, you are very brave.

It seems perfectly reasonable to tell Ex that you are moving to be closer to your parents.

That's what he did.

I asked DD1 what DH said to her and she wouldn't tell me the full conversation, all she said was 'daddy misses me and is tired'. Obviously more was said in a 15minute conversation but she won't tell me. I think it will take around 4-8 weeks before ExDH notices the lack of Farsi improvement, then I will mention in an email that we have moved to Devon to be closer to my parents as DDs are close to my parents so there isn't a Farsi club here(ExDH obviously knows this from when we were together). I'm going to continue emailing him once a week (my dad sends the sensible emails to me, he deletes the crazy 'I'm lonely in Iran we are the perfect family I need my girls' type emails) for the next 8 weeks or so and then it will just be weekly phone calls to the DDs. I can't cut his contact with the DDs via phone as I worry they will resent me for this when they're older. I'm going to live with my parents until Christmas then in the new year I'll look for a house. Good point about linking him to stress and trauma, I might mention that in an email as he obviously says things to upset DD1. Making the first page of the scrapbook and it's our wedding photos and a short history of Iran. Loving the idea of what girls can do in Iran! I'm making a page of cut out photos of Tehran and facts such as 'in Iran girls must always wear a headscarf, even at school'. Writing about why ExDH moved to the UK to study medicine too. This will take years to complete but should em worth it :). Should I cut my emails to DH completely (obviously over a number of weeks) or leave it so we email once a month or so? Obviously he will still speak to DDs once a week regardless.

I very much do not like the idea that at 5, she is already censoring what she says to you about their conversations. I would think there is a high chance that he is telling her that it won't be long before they will be living in Iran etc. - things she won't be able to get her head around at all. He certainly sounds selfish enough to have that kind of approach. And at 5, she will have picked up on 'the situation' enough to instinctively hesitate on talking to you about it... or worse, he's starting with the 'don't tell Mummy' stuff. All the more reason to make sure Farsi stops right now.

Good point above about all you needing to say is that you moved because you too wanted to be closer to your parents!!

I think it all sounds like a good progression. It might not be a bad idea to make a few bland comments to DD1 along the lines of 'I was sorry you were upset when Daddy spoke to you, you know you can always talk to me if anything Daddy says confuses you and I will try and explain what he might have meant. Sometimes grown-ups can say confusing things when they are upset.' - something like that.

In answer to you above - I think I would continue emailing. You want to know what he's up to, I think, plus it seems somehow less good a situation to have him speaking to the children but not to you. You want to remain 'in control' of the situation overall - Plus, one thing you do not want is to give him the slightest reason to come back! - again, if he senses you are working towards breaking contact completely he may change his approach entirely, even decide to return to the UK and try and get shared custody etc. This is the one thing you definitely DO NOT WANT!

Softly, softly as possible until one day he wakes up and realises it's been fifteen years, and he doesn't know them anymore, they can't understand a word he says and guess what, he's moved on too.

I am in a very similar position. The guilt in overwhelming but alot of the advice here is medicine for the brain.

I would record the conversations and have them translated so that you are aware of what he is filling her head with.

I think you've had some really good advice from people here, OP, and you seem to have everything under control.

I would be a little cautious about stopping farsi club and telling them Iran is a bad place though, because like someone else said they may well feel that part of them is bad too. If your dd1 is only 5, she probably doesn't really remember what they talked about on the phone, or it will come out as you talk to her over the next couple of days. (If I had a penny for every time I got a 'nothing' when I ask what my dc did in school, only for them to mention with something later on...!)

I would, however, definitely tell them that there are dangerous people in charge and that life there is very dangerous for girls at the moment. I would also tell them that unless you very specifically tell them that they may go and see or play with someone, then they absolutely must not go with anyone on their own, even if it's someone they know.

If you keep a link to that side of their heritage then not only will you exDH not be able to use it to try and manipulate them, but you can help them to understand exactly why it is so dangerous for girls there, which should hopefully also stop them from being tempted to go.

If you're looking for a safe place to store documents, consider scanning them in and keeping a digital copy stored online. You can pay for plenty of secure storage fairly cheaply each month, and that way you would also have pretty easy access to a copy from anywhere with an internet link.

That's a really good idea about recording the conversations Hansie - what do you think OP? (sorry been lurking, just want to say you are doing an amazing job, very impressed)

Loafers, does your H know where your parents live? I would honestly hold off on telling him that you're staying with them for any length of time if he does, just in case he makes the effort to travel over and come down to Devon.

Also, have you logged anything with the passport office yet re. the girls - I think there is something you can do if you fear abduction, it might even flag him up if he tries to get back into the UK. Does he have residency in the UK, or does he need a visa to get back in?

I think the ideas re. asking your DD if there is anything she needs explaining that her Dad said to her is an excellent one, and ditto recording the conversation so that someone else might be able to translate it for you.

You've offered London, you've offered Berlin. If he won't meet in the middle he can't be that desperate to see them.

This!!

I'd definitely be recording the calls and translating them, regardless of legal status. Forewarned is forearmed and you need to know what he is planning.

One option if it makes you feel more comfortable is to simply tell him you are recording them so the kids can play again and listen later. If he has nothing to hide this wouldn't phase him.

There is also the possibility that he's already married an Iranian woman who he thinks would be a better mother to the DCs than you are, in his eyes

I'm so glad you're moving to Devon. I really think it's an excellent idea.

I think you should get a new mobile and NOT give him the number. Just keep him on the old mobile and don't give him any other numbers. I'd let him lead the telephone contact for a bit. Leave him to call, leave him to suggest it. I'd also email him from Devon and tell him that you won't allow him to upset his daughters and if he continues to make her cry during or after phone calls then you'll not allow them.

Also have you contacted the home office and the group mentioned up thread? Not trying to badger you at all. :)

Are there any online Farsi courses or DVDs for children? I don't know if it's a good idea for them to do it in the long run, but if he kicks off about the Farsi club, you could say you are doing something else instead as there aren't any clubs in Devon.

Just another person reiterating not to take them to Iran. I know you know that, but equally, I know you'll feel guilty about it. I'm half-Iranian, my parents are still together but my Dad was always very clear that we were not to go to Iran as kids, he doesn't even like the idea of us going as adults.

And do think about when they turn 18 and can go without you, I was very very keen to go at 18 and would have done had I got the money for the plane tickets. I realise now that it would have been a shit idea, but I would have jumped at the chance at 18 as I was desperate to know about the other half of my cultural identity (my Dad is very secretive about it, I know about five things relating to his time in Iran).

Learn Farsi so that you don't have this language barrier, because I don't know how well you'd be able to prevent your daughters from losing it if he's still speaking Farsi to them.