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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can someone make sense of this.

92 replies

ginandlime · 16/08/2014 13:20

i am controlled, if not by emotion, by logic but the logic is not mine. It's that of an extraordinarily intelligent man. A man I love, although he is not the easier man he used to be.
He has always had an element of control, for over twenty years. He has been very ill and is now seriously disabled, but there are things he can do for himself, although he doesn't.
He's never done a school run, even when we lived within walking distance because 'he doesn't do mornings'. If I said anything the answer was that he was agorophobic. He is, seriously so, but he didn't often get up either. He's never used a washing machine, ironed. He's done other things and he's been a good father. He spent a couple of years cooking once a month.
We argue. More so, now than ever. I will never win an argument. He claims I never back down which is strange, because it's not the case, and I am usually the first to apologise if I get it wrong. I don't argue properly though, I argue emotionally and I get frustrated when he wants to discuss the structure of the argument rather than the point. All this though, is about keeping me in my place. I want to talk about this but it just leaves a complete muddle in my head when I try to untangle it. I know I'm being emotionally abused but I can't describe exactly how. He stomps off to bed when he doesn't get his own way. He controls every fucking room in the house. We can't watch what we want to on the television because he is too disabled to sit on his chair in his study and read or he's bored lying on the bed. We can't make too much noise or listen to music in the conservatory because it's off the sitting room. Can't clean the house because he is up all night and sleeps during the day.
He is the only person I have ever met who complains if his coffee isn't handed to him at immediate drinking temperature, in other words, he cannot wait for it to cool down. He wakes me up almost every night, deliberately.
Our clothes come from charity shops, his from a high street expensive brand. He has a fixed amount out of the bank account every month which is his money to spend as he chooses. This does not include clothes, books, comic books, that's all the family budget. I do not have extra money to spend as I choose, although in fairness he doesn't often question what I spend.
I got something wrong yesterday (in his eyes) I tried to apologise, but wasn't allowed to. I offered to take him to collect something today, but I forgot to re-offer this morning, so he's not happy about that.
I cook meals that aren't suitable. God, have you ever cooked one of those meals that turns out different every time - spag bol for example, if it's different, he won't eat it, I know he has AS, but crikey, a spag bol isn't that different each time.
He uses the dc to create arguments and then blames them, for it going pear shaped, This morning dd1 chatting about what she is doing today and she fucked up (slightly) a coffee she was making for me. No big deal. I just laughed and made another, he had a go at her. We had literally, just got up. Really unfair. He will have a go at her when she's had a few drinks, again, unfair.
I keep trying to make things right but nothing is, it's all my fault and I can't see reason. I rung my 30 year old the other week to check that I wasn't as unhinged as dh says I am. 30 year old says I'm fine.
This is a muddle, because the incidents merge into one and I know he's being unreasonable but I can't for the life of me fish out the exact incidences. We have to accept, without question how difficult his life is, but without acknowledging that there is an impact upon anybody involved with his wellbeing.
I do everything I can to make his life easier. I'd like things too, I'd like to go out once in a while, other than to a supermarket. I'd like to have friends, go for coffee, go to the pictures, can't do any of those things. I went to a funeral recently and paid big time for being out all day. I went to a wedding two days after and paid again.
I actually wish he'd be violent so I had a good solid reason.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 18/08/2014 10:11

He destroyed you, that's what happened.

After I left my monster I read up on brainwashing, psychological torture etc. He had done them all. He is controlling your sleep op, a classic torture tactic. That's the least of it I imagine.

Sorry to be dominating your thread, I am incensed at what he's done to you so blatantly. My kids love their dad but they no longer have to live with him, thank goodness.

mrsbrownsgirls · 18/08/2014 10:11

I am really distressed for you.
I left a very bad relationship last year. our children are young teens.
My ex was not as bad as yours but there are similarities - never being able to argue/ put across my point because he would not listen to my words but instead accuse me of being hostile/ aggressive.

I posted under various names on MN for years before getting the courage to leave.
A rock has been lifted from my heart.
Please don't waste years like I did .

I wish you strength and a life of love x

ginandlime · 18/08/2014 11:59

I am sorry, and I know this is pathetic but can someone put me right. As I said, he's had a bad night, he says he's in lots of pain. He was moaning and calling so I went up but still not lovey dovey, just checking he is alright and reassuring him that he is. He begged me to be nice to him and I said "Well stop treating me like shit, then'. I know the timing was crap, he is in pain and has been up all night, but apparently only I could be so cruel. Equally, I know if I give in and give him a hug, nothing will change.

OP posts:
BlackDaisies · 18/08/2014 12:07

What are you waiting for? He's not going to change. You either stay with him, but carve a life for yourself. Go for coffees, have friends. Or leave him and have all these things and a peaceful life with it.

So he's in pain. He can take pain killers like all other adults can. He's probably over exaggerating anyway. He's not helpless is he?

The decision to leave is hard as well as coming to realise that you can do it. But doing it and looking back is indescribable (in a good way if course).

tipsytrifle · 18/08/2014 12:10

ginandlime - what you said at Sun 17-Aug-14 14:09:03 describes exactly the kind of AS (because everyone is different) that led me to break up with a man i dated for a few months. He was charismatic, charming, totally entertaining and totally unmoveable. His habits and preferences were unchangeable. There was no place for me.

He would go off to an art gallery/somewhere cool and never even think to ask if I'd like to go. As in, a date. But he would tell me about it later on the phone. We dated by schedule and proxy. When we met he talked and I listened.

Yet his mind and how it worked was a fascinating new experience for me. It was with reluctance that I realised he also consciously used his autism to control my acceptance level of what might normally be called BS. His level of contrariness (is that a word?) was expanding and if I said black he'd invariably say white.

I began to get angrier but oddly also, to feel less and less worthy, if you get me. His intelligence was phenomenal and so attractive. How could it be abusive to never let me get a word in edgeways or to swipe me off the planet verbally when i reacted emotionally to something that mattered deeply? But everything was about him. Everything and always. Anything to do with me was ignored, minimised or negated. At those times I was incomprehensible to him and I felt bad about that.

And all that over a few months. Intense for me but him? Not a hair was ruffled in his experience of me. I think.

This is a very long winded way of me wondering if you have reached your tolerance limit. AS in my experience was a heartbreak waiting to happen in only a few months. I know this is not the case for all but your H sounds so like the man I almost-dated ...

I know what I'd like to suggest you do. I think you know what you would like to do. I think you should probably do it.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 18/08/2014 12:47

Sorry if I missed this but how old are your children? Let me ask you this.

Does your marriage create a stable environment for them?
Can they lead healthy lives at home?
Do they feel loved and safe?

ginandlime · 18/08/2014 12:50

He does have a pain condition, for which he takes seriously strong medication. He asked dd (18) for some compassion, she pointed out that she understood he had a panic this morning but what about all the other times, at which point he told her we were ganging up on him and that I hate him.
Yesterday, when I tried to point out to him that he was claiming the rest of the world was wrong and not him, he just started yelling pot, kettle etc.

OP posts:
antimatter · 18/08/2014 12:59

He is making you responsible for how he feels. That is wrong and you know it.

Stand up to yourself.
Does he have pain which isn't controlled by medication?
When was the last time you had a respite from looking after him?
Have you ever been on holiday just with your kids without him?

springydaffs · 18/08/2014 13:01

Oh fuck him, frankly.

You're trying to reason with him op - BIG mistake. It's what you do not what you say that carries any weight. Same with him of course but he'll never admit it, not in a million million years.

So, what are you going to do?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 18/08/2014 13:06

After 20 yeats you're not abandoning ship, you're hitting the wall.

tipsytrifle · 18/08/2014 13:06

ohhhh just got an auditory flashback ...

he was claiming the rest of the world was wrong and not him

I was amazed when this was said to me. There is of course a large amount of pure bs plus a strange arrogance involved. How much is AS and how much the man? No point in trying to separate the condition out as an entity in itself ... it's all him.

antimatter · 18/08/2014 13:09

my ex used to say that he rest of the world was wrong and not him

I really got sick and tired of this and told him well before we spit to stop using this argument as it is flawed.

springydaffs · 18/08/2014 13:16

When is the right time to tell him he's treating you like shit? (Actually, it's worse than that, he is treating you worse than shit). It's NEVER. Because he makes sure it's never. He has you trained like a dog to see to each and every need/want/whim and will put you through hell if you don't jump to that very second and comply/serve your master.

He's emotionally blackmailing you, to add to the l-o-n-g list of abuses that fill every crack and mm of space.

BlackDaisies · 18/08/2014 13:33

Do something little. Like see a solicitor for a free half hour to find out your options IF you leave. You don't need to actually make that decision yet.

Or even smaller. Walk out now and go for your coffee in town. Don't return for at least a couple of hours.

FantasticButtocks · 18/08/2014 13:40

His behaviour towards you is absolutely vile and, no matter what the circumstances, there is no excuse. You are his wife, he is supposed to cherish you.

From what you have written, you are deeply enmeshed in this... Can you get some good therapy for yourself? (I am now imagining you saying something along the lines of oh no I can't do that because he will think/say/shout/argue/object in some way.)

But you have a life. You are a person. You have needs and wants. you have a right not to be abused.

He has used your awe of his intellect against you.

He has used your kindness and caring against you.

He is taking the piss. And he is intimidating you with his intellect.

where the fuck is Karenthetoadslayer when you need her

I hope you find a way out Sad

eddielizzard · 18/08/2014 13:58

i agree!

walk out the door and go and have a coffee. turn your phone on silent.

a woman with adult children is not beholden to anyone.

even better, find a shl (shit hot lawyer).

RollerCola · 18/08/2014 15:48

What is the cause of his pain? I ask because my exh was similar to this and lurched from one illness to another which meant he was constantly in pain of one sort or another. Strangely as each new illness came the previous one was barely mentioned and also it didn't seek to stop him from doing some things (going to the pub being one)

I came to realise that he used all these different 'pains' for sympathy and as a result I was constantly making excuses for him - he couldn't do this or that because of the pain.

In actual fact all the pains he suffered from were just normal things - a hernia, a bad back etc but they were so much worse than anyone else might have. He persuaded the doctor to give him ever-increasing strengths of painkillers which he's taken for years. These made him unable to sleep in the night which meant he also used to wake me up like your husband. But he used to fall asleep every single evening on the sofa so we all had to creep about or he'd wake up in a full mood and take it out on us all.

We separated last year and he still tries to tell me about his 'pain' . I just don't engage with anything about it now. I refuse to discuss it and change the subject if he mentions it.

Obviously there are differences in our situations but the main similarity is that he will never change. Don't be fooled into thinking he won't cope without you. Mine does and yours will. You deserve so much more than this.

ginandlime · 18/08/2014 16:12

The pain is genuine, Roller, he sees the pain clinic on a regular basis. Don't want to say as it's rare and therefore identifiable.

Springy I know you are right, we have gone every which way since I told him not to speak to me in the manner in which he did on Saturday. The latest (half an hour ago) being he loves me. I told him he didn't and was forced to take it back. Yes I do mean forced because it would have wrecked a holiday for two of the dcs if I hadn't.
I tried to get a appointment at the doctor today, will try again tomorrow.

OP posts:
FantasticButtocks · 18/08/2014 17:54

How would your refusing to take back what you said wreck the dc's holiday? (Sorry if I'm misunderstanding)

BlackDaisies · 18/08/2014 18:15

You cannot live like this. It sounds like his whole presence is enough to wreck a holiday anyway. I would imagine if you do start to assert yourself it just might start to have the opposite effect anyway.

What would he do? Sulk? Then leave him to it on holiday and go out without him. Tbh though from what you've said I wouldn't be going on holiday with him anyway. Is it going to be any sort of a holiday for you?

Hissy · 18/08/2014 19:30

So he's holding your children hostage, threats to their holidays, if you don't do as your told.

Right oh.

If you have to do as you told, it'd be better for you to do what lawyers/doctors/WA tell you.

LTB. Seriously.

You can manage your dc AS by explaining and reassuring them that change will be for the best, preparing them for freedom.

Please leave this monster. Please?

Earsareconstantlyringing · 18/08/2014 19:33

Oh gin, this sounds a desperately unhappy household, and you sound like a woman who is becoming stronger and more aware by the hour. You know this isn't any way to live and, to an outsider just reading your posts, you sound like you're slowly but surely detaching yourself, which can only be an almighty good thing.

Like someone else says, don't try and separate his AS and his behaviour, as they are one and the same. He won't change, he has no intention of changing and even as he sees you changing towards him and senses that things are different, he's not changing, is he?

It's hard, of course, but you must focus on you, your future and the future of your children. Do you want them to see you desperately unhappy? Is this the kind of relationship that you would want them to have as adults? When you think of the next year, the next 10 and the next 30, can you bear to picture him as part of it? I suspect the answer is no to all of them, and so you know what you need to do. It's not easy, far from it, but you will gather strength day by day and by focussing on the amazing life you could give your children by being away from a father who sounds utterly toxic, you'll be giving them an incredible gift. And just imagine the possibilities for you...

Sending you love and luck, and please, keep posting.

springydaffs · 18/08/2014 19:35

I resolved to stop posting incessantly but I can't help it. He's got you in such a fog that you have to ask other people what they think about blatantly obvious things - your thread title asks for help to make sense of the obvious; you ask again 'make sense of this for me', then call yourself pathetic. You are not pathetic, he has done this to you.

Talking of fog, it is the hallmark of being the victim if an abuser: Fear, Obligation, Guilt. Google FOG and see what comes up.

His angle to get you fearful, obligated and guilty is his health; my abuser's angle was his childhood. I wept for the poor boy who had endured that searingly painful childhood, abandoned and terrified. It took me a while to notice he never wept about it, was in fact blank, impassive, about it ("trauma!' I told myself, the poor lamb): he had found someone to weep for him. It wasn't too long before he drew comparisons between me and his deranged stepmother who had been the source of so much of his childhood pain; first that I am creative, like her; then that I am talented, like her; small; pretty; quick-witted, clever. Then, sharp-tongued; spiteful, cruel, divisive. Finally, unhinged. I was drawn in by the first comparisons, began to be afraid, resolved i would be nothing like her, reined in my quick wit (quick anything tbf: I couldn't risk being too sudden about anything for fear of reminding him if her). When the comparisons became less flattering, I appealed, pleaded, that I wasn't like her, I was a different person and would never condone what she did to him. That went on for a while (years and years). I'm only telling a fraction of his abuse, one angle: he had many strings to his bow. I thought I could get through to him - it took me a long, long time to realise he had no intention of giving up a rich seam, all the better to abuse me by; get me snivelling and in abject fear and confusion.

When I left him ( that was a miracle!), I genuinely didn't know black from white, he had totally jammed my airwaves, totally scrambled my brain. I suppose it was survival that got me free - are you there yet?

One big avenue that effected my recovery was looking at my own codependence. Have a look at CODA, you may recognise it.

ginandlime · 18/08/2014 22:09

Just flying in to say Thank you. I am listening.

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ginandlime · 19/08/2014 17:29

Sorry, just getting it out still.
So, up half the night again because it's not easy not waking someone up when you're in pain, although why you have to have a go at them is beyond me. Anyway, two things:
He slept whilst I did things with dds today. He called for me at half four and I went up, he said he had a bad night, I stated that I was aware and that he'd had a go at me, again, was told not to say that it was unfair and mean. I said that I was just trying to sort things out and that I wouldn't mention them if he stopped waking me up and stopped having a go at me. He asked what were the things that I'm not allowed to do as there are two of us in the relationship and that if there are restrictions on him what were mine. When I said that this wasn't what the discussion was about, I was accused of over intellectualising when he just wanted a simple yes, there were things I'm not allowed to do, or No, I can do what I like, regardless! Am I being mean? Am I in the wrong?
He got up, came down, had his meds, had a go at dd2, (18) and went back to bed. He is apparently not coming on holiday, because we're so unfair on him and we apparently all hate him, fine, I've made it clear that I am. I kept making up with him before all this and he'd be lovely for a few days and then kick off again, so this time I'm not making up, although still trying to be kind (yes, cognitive dissonance, I know)
The second thing: I have told someone and I'm seeing someone about all this. It is important for me to know if I'm in the wrong though. I don't think I am, but I need to see where I'm going wrong if I am going wrong. Hope this makes sense, in a rush.
Thank you.

PS. Springy Keep posting, your info is really useful.

OP posts: