"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Hi Worryworker

If you are no contact, how did you feel when you received the text messages from your mother?. She broke the no contact by doing that, this woman will not ever respect any boundary you care to set her. She will not give you any peace at all so long as you have her in your life in any shape or form.

No contact is precisely that, there is no communication of any sort between your mother and yourself.

This is a good link you should read re no contact as it could well help you further:-
www.lightshouse.org/how-to-go-no-contact.html#axzz3GX2dZqbI

If she cannot or will not behave at all decently then she gets to see none of you. You would not have tolerated any of her behaviour from a friend, family are really no different.

NC will indeed give you time to give yourself some much needed time and space away from your mother; she must not be allowed to fill your time with crap text messages or other forms of communication. All of this either must be blocked by you or ignored. Radio silence from you is necessary.

Enlist your DH's support further; he is on your side here.
If she was not a good parent to you she will not be a good grandparent like figure to your children. She will act in similar ways with them as she has done to you.

Your mother likely taught you to put her needs first and yours last.
I hope your therapist is a person who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. If this person has such a bias you need to see someone else.

I learnt earlier on today that FIL has been diagnosed a brain tumour.

ifuknow I think you answered your own question. Children of narcissists are raised learning to dance to the narc tune. Can you unlearn table manners, or riding a bike? It's all childhood learning, just some of it's unhealthy.
I guess, to unlearn an unhealthy thing takes time, and patience, a slow erosion, rather than a eureka moment.

meerka your post is so spot on.

Shit, Attila, are you OK? How's your DH?

good and shark I feel like we share lives. So, so similar - the 'I know you're busy, but need to talk about something far in the future/irrelevant/pointless' is my M to a tee.

attila I want to say I'm sorry to hear that, but really I'm only sorry for you and your DH.

to dusty and edgar

Humpty yes, my Dm was doing that this summer, ringing me "I know you're trying to get the kids off to summer school, but...." Yes! So WHY can't it wait???!!!!

Sorry to hear about your FIL Attila. Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

I felt harassed when my dm first text (tried contacting me via my dsis initially- telling her she would come round with her on my DS's birthday, not asked just told!. I had to then text to tell her no, she wasn't coming round. She turned it all back on me as expected!) and also annoyed that she hadn't respected my request of nc. She says I'm stopping her seeing her grand kids which she never really made effort with anyway.

I'm still trying to justify her behaviour though - thinking 'she wasn't that bad', 'she wouldn't deliberately be horrible' etc. I'm still struggling to accept how she is which I suppose is understandable having spent many years protecting her really.

Don't think therapist has biased towards keeping families together- nothing to suggest this.

In haste ... Hope your husband and you are ok attila. Difficult time, even more difficult given the rocky relationship. Take care.

thinking of you too Atilla, send love to dh and ds from both of us eh? xxx

Hello everyone, I am new to this thread and identify with so much that has been said. So sorry that you are all going through this too. I am just starting to find out about emotional abuse and that my parents were not very good. Mainly emotionally neglectful and very critical. The guilt is always there.
My mum used to call me a bitch in rage when I had pushed her too far and once grabbed my hair.
I can't remember how I had pushed her, I was a kid I think I was being argumentative I can't remember.
Then on the other hand she would say how much she loved me.
My dad would call me clever one day and then scream at me and tell me how stupid I was the next.
I feel so guilty and blame myself for everything.
Is it normal for your mother to call you a bitch if she is annoyed with you for answering back? She called me a bitch again recently too which was totally unjustified...

New name for me. Sensitive subject and I tend to lose my privacy fairly quickly. This is a brilliant thread with a brilliant title.

I went to get my drivers license renewed and there was a spot to notate your emergency contact name and number. I left it blank. The lady asked, "Did you mean to leave this blank?"
Me: "Yes".
Her: "You don't have anyone to put down?"
Me: "No."
I should put Mother I guess, but then, you know, Why? Why is her identity all over my identity?

I deactivated my Facebook account and don't miss it.

I am waiting for some medical test results. Could be Nothing. Could be Something. I made the decision that if it is Something, I wouldn't treat it. I would just let it run its course.

I guess I am just tired and I am withdrawing. My parents screwed me up so bad and continue to do so (although no one believes me). I am NC with my dad (16 lovely years of NC), but stuck LIVING with my mother. She doesn't want me to leave her. I'm in my 50s, never married, never had a boyfriend, have 1 young adult child, also living here. Mother is healthy and working full time. Don't most mothers want their children to be independent??? Live on their own? Date? Have a life separate and apart from them? Was I really put on this Earth to be her servant? HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

They would always make out I was very difficult and aggressive/ a bully/an incolent ungrateful/unruly child. Aswell as fat, sometimes ugly.
But then at other times I was clever, beautiful.
But if I did things wrong I was dreadful, terrible, pushing them over the edge and making them shout and scream. They would give me the silent treatment and look really hurt.
I felt sorry for them having to put up with me and still feel guilty. But I am not sure what I did wrong, apart from not doing well at school because I felt depressed.
Currently in my life I am very sensitive and can't bear the thought of hurting anyone.

Sunnyrainy

Your abusive toxic parents completely and abjectly failed you as a child and I would suggest you read the resources at the start of this thread (starting with Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward) if you have not already done so.

FOG - fear, obligation, guilt are three of but many damaging legacies left to their now adult offspring by such dysfunctional people.

It is NOT your fault this happened to you, the fault here is all theirs. They failed you and messed you up. Their own families of origin did that lot of damage to them in their own childhoods.

The best revenge here is to live well and without either parent in your life. You do not ever deserve to be called a bitch by your toxic mother, if she cannot or will not behave she gets to see none of you. If she was not a good parent to you, its the same deal for your children. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

I would further lower all means of contact with your mother. It is hard to do but having your mother in your life at all will give you no peace. She will not change and you need to grieve for the mother/daughter relationship you should have had but did not.

Thank you Attila, it's hard but it's true.

The guilt and self doubt is the worst.

They would dramatically tell me how much they love me and how everything was in my best interests, and I was always provided for physically. That's why I am still not sure if I was abused and question whether it WAS me at fault. They were frustrated at my depression and I think they thought shouting me out of it was the only way to get the message through. It was all about public image and I was spoiling that image and perfect family ideal
Very superficial, feelings and emotions where not even discussed, ever. Even when I had teenage spots, I was made to feel awful about that. Do you actually wash your face? She said. And she would look really not happy about it. But then sometimes she was ok about it. Had an eating disorder and that was brushed under the carpet and never discussed. I was shouted at for looking sad. 'What must people think?!' She said. But then my mother was, and still is very needy. I would often have to counsel her and wished that I could have that from her.
Yes, I am reading that book, thank you for that, and it's very insightful.
Definitely I think there might have been something not right about my mothers parents. I was once called evil and ugly by my grandmother, so goodness knows what they were like with her.
But at other times they would act loving and there were some happy times, so that's why its not clear cut. I almost wish it was so that I could stop torturing myself!

My problem is that I always doubt myself. I am so confused. Am also in an abusive relationship (recently discovered this, he is mainly a headworker and liar according to pat craven books). It's like opening a can of worms and feel a bit adrift...

Dysfunction can filter down the generations and I note your mother's own parents were themselves abusive; that is what your own mother learnt from them and she has carried that on with you.

They took out all their unresolved issues and crap on you, they failed you utterly as parents. You were the scapegoat for their inherent ills. They never sought help for their own problems and poor mental health but blamed you for causing these. They took the easy way out. They caused these issues you now have and for you to be depressed; anyone in your position would have been the same.

I feel most sorry for you for having "parents" like that at all. You had to put up with them, it was not the other way around at all.

You're not like them or as they were; you know this is wrong and their treatment of you is and was abusive. Abusers are not abusive all the time; they can do "nice" and "nasty" very well but its a continuous cycle and one which they set you up for because you had a relationship with someone who has turned out to be abusive himself.

If you have not done the Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid I would suggest you look into doing this and asap.

You can reclaim your life back and be free of these people who have let you down so abjectly. They do not deserve you to be in their lives at all.

Hey folks, just discovered this thread. Feeling overly emotional today (probably as a result of dc returning from their holiday and my first time away from them in five years that I've actually had the time and space to think about things.) So here goes.

I knew from a really young age that my mum didn't care for me the way she did my dsis and brother. Can't exactly pinpoint when or where I knew this from but it built up to include me being left out of playing with her and my siblings, me constantly in trouble for things I hadn't done, getting the blame of everything and her being so much stricter with me (including physical 'punishment' when by that time it was unheard of to discipline children the way she did me).

She told me she hated me when I was 8 years old. She would go out and buy my siblings a nice new toy and tell me she couldn't afford to get me one this month, that she would the next but then magically forgot about it.

The more I grew up the more I was shouted at, given in trouble, kept isolated and alone, left unloved and by thirteen I fell into a depression so deep that I started believing I was such a bad, horrible, unlovable person. I hated myself, stopped taking care of myself, stopped eating and started thinking about suicide.

I was kept in my room constantly by the time I was 14, only allowed out to eat dinner, clean the house and back to my room. All of my possessions were taken away from me (apart from clothes, school uniform and school work). I didn't even have a school bag, I wasn't allowed to use the bath or shower apart from Sundays, I was called lazy and stupid and generally made to feel like crap. I became selectively mute and this went unnoticed.

I overdosed at 15, was made to apologise to her because it, then a few weeks later (just after I'd turned 16) I was kicked out.

No contact until I turned 18. When I tried to talk to her about it I got "You've no idea how difficult it was for me" "you were hell to bring up" "you were always treated the same as your brother and sister" and even "that didnt happen" which led to nc until I was 20 and I had a breakdown so bad that I just couldn't take it anymore. I needed her, needed to be loved so badly that even now I play the game just to hear that she loves me.

August this year I finally asked my doctor to refer me to councelling. Anti ds weren't working and because of what I went through as a child I still struggle to connect with my dd who will be 5 at the end of this year. I try my hardest not to let my daughter see the part of me that doesn't know how to be with her but I find that I'm becoming more and more of a shout person and I hate it. I hate not being able to just relax and stop stressing out. I don't know how to just smile when accidents happen and go "oh dear!" And get on with it.

Even now I hate myself. Even now I don't believe anyone at all who tells me they love me. And I constantly crave love and affection.

Councelling will start soon, hopefully it'll make things better. It's a difficult road and I hope everyone who's had to endure any sort of childhood abuse and toxic parents finds a way to heal

Your mother failed you abjectly as a child, it was not your fault that this happened to you. She blamed you for her own issues and never sought the necessary help that she herself needed. She has given you in response all the excuses that toxic people say. Your mother made the terrible choice not to love; this is precisely the sort of thing that narcissist parents do. It is NOT your fault she is the way she is, you did not make her so dysfunctional.

You do not mention your dad; did he leave?.

Do you have any contact with your mother and siblings now?.

Your mother certainly had the golden child/scapegoat thing going on with you and your siblings as children.

Have you been given an actual date re counselling?. I ask this as counselling on the NHS is all very well and good but it can be limited in scope and perhaps only too for six sessions.

I would look at BACP and see if they can see you sooner; also they do not charge the earth. You need to find someone who you can work with and has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

You will need to grieve for the mother and daughter relationship you by rights should have had but did not receive. I doubt very much that you will make the same mistakes with your DD as she did with you because you know that your own treatment of you was both wrong and abusive.

Hi,

I don't post on here but do lurk, I'm sorry, I hope its ok to post now
I got an email from my mother (ha!) this morning and my heads all over the place

Oh, I'm on a namechange, didn't want this shit associated with everything else iyswim?

My father left when I was 3, he always treated me like I was worth something but then would disappear for years leaving me feeling worse. He moved to south Africa when I was 10 and that was that, think I've seen him about four or five times that I can remember from when he first left to when he left for good. My step father never cared much even though he and my mother had been together since I was 9.

My brother done something horrific to my dd and I struggle to even acknowledge he's my brother anymore, I'll never have contact with him again. Me and my dsis are close though, she's her own issues regarding our mother but it's not my place to say.

I'm still waiting for my initial appointment, I was referred the end of august and told it could take up to 12 weeks to receive one. I do work with a lovely social worker who has helped me with a lot though, she got involved when I was having a mental breakdown at the start of this year and has been one of the most helpful people I've met, because of her I was able to get back on my feet and continue living.

Just to clarify - I show my dc, including my dd, all the love in the world. They're so incredibly important to me and I would never dream of doing anything to hurt them or make them feel unloved or unwanted. They're my whole world. I just get so stressed out so easily which ends with me shouting more than I should, completely unfair on them and I hate it. I don't want to be like this and I'm really hoping that ccouncelling will help with that too.

When I tried to talk to her about it I got "You've no idea how difficult it was for me" "you were hell to bring up" "you were always treated the same as your brother and sister" and even "that didn't happen"

They all speak from the same script, don't they. My DM said exactly the same to me. I've given up trying to talk to her about any of it because it was either my fault/ didn't happen or they did their best.

We took DM on holiday when DD was a baby, and went to quite a few places. On the way home she got in the car and said "well that was the best day ever", when we'd just been in the swimming pool all day. When I said to her later that was a bit of a slap in the face after everywhere we'd taken her she just dragged up some example of when they'd done lots for us and we hadn't appreciated it. I can't win.

We'd had to wait for DH to check out and go and put the car in the outer car park before we could get in the pool. She got more and more stressed out that he was taking so long so I said "well you can go on if you like", expecting that to shut her up. "oh OK" she says, and trots off into the pool, leaving me alone with 6 mo DD .

(and her favourite thing to tell me as I was growing up was that I was selfish. Talk about pots and kettles).

So so true. Selfishness is at the bottom of it all.
I just don't understand these people.

Those times that have tried to calmly rationalise and resolve disputes, the parents voices start to raise and it often turns into the most almighty emotional showdown. During one episode (when I tried to tell my dad that I had been upset about something he said that was extremely unfair), my mum started being very violent towards my dad, and then he said to me 'look what you have done'. You are trying to stir things up and cause problems.
I just said that I had been upset and he said that 'I was always upset, listen to me now!'
can anyone make any sense of that?
I know now NEVER to go to them for advice/support etc it always ends up like this.

Rather, 'listen to you know...' As if me being upset at that moment was proof that I was always upset.
Which in turn means there is something wrong with me..
If that makes sense

i'm still here reading. funny how its all got a lot harder since I've started talking about it. its like if I didn't mention it much I could almost pretend it wasn't happening. now its out its like I have to face that my own parents didn't/don't like me so how does anyone else.
I've had a look at various narcissistic websites and yes I think that's both of them. so now I know what it is, it has a label but it hasn't made me feel any better. maybe that comes with time.
one of you asked if I was still reading (sorry i'll look and see who it was in a moment) that made me cry a tiny bit that a stranger cared enough about me to ask if I was still reading-thank you for making me feel that little bit happy/better/wanted.
and quickly to end...I have done something that has changed how I look and it has annoyed them so very very much. I love the change, my husband and children love it and i'm not changing back this time to suit them. I have taken a very small stand for myself.

sorry I didn't answers questions before, no she's not my boss, doesn't work with me and has no idea about how to do it but that doesn't seem to bother her. I was told by a client on Friday I was amazing at what I do and how lucky she is to know me and my skills/talent. that was nice to hear.
today there is a very small voice somewhere inside saying I can get through this, sort this and be okay. today I feel quite happy.
I really hope all of you are having a good day today.