What is wrong with 30-something, single women?

[Male30something]

Hi there,

I hate to generalise, so I want to emphasise that what I am about to share is purely anecdotal and based on my experiences over the last couple of years. I really feel I need a female perspective hence me posting here - sorry to take up your time.

I had a couple of rewarding longterm relationships in my 20s which didn't work out for one reason or another and now aged over 30 I have started to date more seriously once again.

The problem is, single women in their 30s are totally different to 20 somethings.

I have dated semi-seriously four women in this age group over the last couple of years (one after another of course!) and I have been unable to take any of these relationships further because of one problem:

All four women are obsessed with jumping the gun and planning family/children etc. Now I appreciate women have different body pressures as they age and the fertility window is not that large, but it seems to me that all four of these lovely women value an incredible connection with a partner at a lower level than they do having children - possibly even with anyone vaguely suitable!

I haven't decided whether I want children personally, but I'm much more likely to end up wanting to have children with someone I have an amazing connection with I reckon. It is sad that so many women my age don't prioritise a loving relationship before children. All four women shared my interests eg exercise, travel, history, languages etc to varying degrees.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong on this - I'm just feeling a little dejected after a split, where for the fourth time in a row I have felt the same issues arise. I just spoke to the lovely lady in question who was upset that she will now have to wait even longer to have a child - proving my point once again. Different priorities? Where are the romantics?

OP at 00.55: "I know that I will definitely want them with the right woman"

I think it's less complicated than you're making out.

You do want kids - but only if the relationship is a keeper. That puts you in the same boat as the women you are dating.

So why not just say "I do want kids"? And stop boxing and coxing?

But be bloody sure that you don't knowingly waste the fertile years of women that you aren't really interested in. If you think it won't work, move on quickly. And FGS don't then tell them that you breaking up because your views on children are incompatible.

OP, I from what you say these women are not just asking you if you want kids (to which presumably you reply, "yes, if the relationship is right", which is a perfectly reasonable answer), they are actually asking you to start TTC after less than 6 months? Is that right?

One thing you might want to do is to stop lumping everyone between 30 and 39 into the same "thirtysomething" category. You don't say which end of their thirties these women were in. In my view there is a world of difference between wanting children, being 31-33 and asking your boyfriend to TTC after only a few months of relationship, versus doing the same thing at 39. The younger woman probably just needs a bit of reassurance that you will be ready for kids if/when the relationship has had time to develop, and it's fair to tell her that she's jumping the gun and she has time to wait and see how things grow, whereas the older one does not have the luxury of time to wait and see. My advice is very simple - don't date anyone over 33 for more than about 4 months. If it's going to be really special you'll have a pretty good idea by then. If not, you need to let them look elsewhere - they don't have the time to waste.

By the way, your friends who are married without kids have almost certainly decided whether or not the do want them, they will just have decided that they don't want them immediately.

(For anyone who has read my other threads and calls me a hypocrite, I am married and late-thirties DH and I have genuinely not decided, but we are not the norm).

For what it's worth, I certainly wanted a fantastic relationship first and if kids came into the equation, all the better, but I would not have rushed things just to get on with the kids. There must be other women out there like me.

However there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling very strongly about being a mother. There is so much information out there about fertility that very many women who prioritise motherhood fear losing that part of life through inaction, so they take a conscious decision to ask a partner to father a baby early on in a relationship. They know they risk him saying no and the relationship ending. That's all that's happened to you.

You have decades ahead of you to find that amazing connection. They don't have the luxury of time to have a baby. That is not "something wrong" it is cold hard biological fact.

I met DH in my early twenties, so this wasn't really an issue. However, if I knew I wanted children, and I was in my thirties, I'm afraid I wouldn't be interested in investing the time in building a "deep connection" with someone who might not want the same thing. Sorry OP!

The difference is, you are waiting for thunderbolts and endless moments of staring into each others' eyes feeling a "connection". The bright, 30 somethings you are dating probably have a much more realistic view of what they want: a supportive "friend", with common interests who they happen to fancy, who wants kids. Why wait if that's what they thought they found with you. What would they be waiting for?

The answer probably lies in what pp's have said. None of these women have been right for you right from the start. If they were you wouldn't have wanted to finish it. And you have not been right for any of them with your different beliefs about how relationships should be.

Hopefully you will all find the right person one of these days. However, one word of caution. Having children is exhausting and hard work. There's not much time for thunderbolts and plenty of time to get snappy and grumpy. I hope your perfect, connected woman doesn't "let you down" when real life gets in the way.

Oh, you might also want to avoid the use of the unctuous expression "lovely lady". If that appears anywhere on your internet dating profile you are probably missing out on responses from vast swathes of fantastic women.

You sound infuriating. Sorry.

On one hand you think you definitely want kids with the right person, on the other you'll let fate decide. The truth is you can only think in this non-committal ambiguous way because you aren't on a timer and clearly no manner of analogy is going to make you see things differently.

You need to tell the women you are dating, up front, that you are prepapred to let "fate" decide and that might take a long time for you to "feel a connection". Letting any woman waste fertile years on you would be cruel and selfish. And this might be a newsflash, but having children is so much more meaningful (for both partners) than some sort of rom-com ideal of finding "the one". People who set this ideal, finding their one true soulmate, seem to find themselves rather lonely. Women who do this seem particularly bonkers. If you are meeting women who are bringing up the children discussion frankly and early, then I'd suggest you've already dumped some very sensible potential partners.

And just to break down why this discussion has to happen early in your 30s:

6 months romancing
6-12 months trying to conceive (if all goes well)
9 months gestation
Baby!
6 months breast feeding= infertile
6-12 months trying to conceive second child
9 months gestation
2nd baby!

= just under 5 years to have 2 children if all goes well, taking your 30 year old partner to 35 and the point at which fertility drops off. The 30 year old women you are dating WILL (assuming they want children) have done the maths!

Of course women do get pregnant after 35 -I'm 38 and expecting my second- but it's a bit of a chance to take, and it's not your risk to take on behalf of these women.

I used to be upfront about wanting marriage because that IS what I wanted. Some men just didn't get it and assumed I wanted to get married to them!! Er no lets get to know each other first and see whether we are compatible. It works both ways.
There are no guarantees of a happy ever after but perhaps they weren't just right for you?
As it turned out I became pregnant as a result of contraceptive failure. I was ambivalent about children but went ahead anyway due to my age!!!!!!
It most definitely wasn't a 'whoops I forgot to use contraception' more of a 'oh shit what do I do now'
So if you are having sexual relationships you may find you have less control than you think

If a woman is 35 she can't waste 2-3 years dating someone
Exactly. Opening-Post-Man wants no-strings sex and women in his own age group want children. Let him shag 20 year olds.

I think that's a bit unfair on the OP humblepie- he does say he wants a serious relationship. That's hardly "no strings sex".

Jessie, from the OP, I didn't take that these women are saying "let's TTC right now!", more "that's what I want in my future, do you see it in your future?"

I do sort of get its a bit crazy at 30 to have to work on a tight schedule of babies as above when the woman has had way over 10 years to settle down. It must be a nit of pressure having to meet, marry, have all your children, buy a house etc in a window of a couple of years.

Yes, it's a problem. You day that you want a loving and deep relationship. Now imagine that you lived in a world where any man who was single in his late thirties would have to move to a men's community like a sort of secular monastery where celibacy would be enforced. And imagine that every time you had a date with a woman she would explain that for the time being she was only interested in sex, and that talking wasn't really what she had in mind for you to be doing with your tongue, but that maybe if you really clicked in bed she might be interested in getting to know you as a person in a couple of years.

In your twenties, that was great. Lots of sex, no hassle. But now you have realised that you only have a couple of years to find the right woman, or you will spend the rest of your life celibate.

Jessie - he wants a 'serious relationship' without committing to the woman, whom he requires to be 'romantic' and not practical about pairing and reproducing. So basically, he wants no-strings sex.

You see loads of women, on here and in real life, who've bought into the whole "cool girlfriend" thing. Not putting pressure on men to commit - because the delicate flowers will run away screaming - and ending up three or more years down the line no further forwards, and being accused of "nagging" when they want to marry or have children.

I'm all for putting the cards on the table upfront, and cutting your losses early if you want different things.

As an aside OP, if you know for sure that you don't want to have a child right now because you haven't met the right partner, make sure that you are using a condom every single time, even if she is also using contraceptives.

Not making an unwanted baby is just as much your responsibility. You are, of course, aware that even with contraception used properly, there is still a chance that it could fail.

The only really failsafe way to protect yourself from an unwanted pregnancy is to not have sex. Bear that in mind.

abland I am waiting for the OP to come back and confirm that my reading of "obsessed with jumping the gun and planning family/children" is that they want to start trying for a baby. I read it like this because the OP has said already that he does want children, with the right person, so presumably he's telling the women this. Therefore he has already answered the question that you think they are asking.

humblepie he does seem to be interested in committing, just seems to feel that it takes a while to know if it's a lifelong commitment. Depends how long he dates them for as to whether that's reasonable caution or stringing along - perhaps he'll come back and tell us.

Agree ghetto fabulous, women have been made to feel that it's unreasonable of them to have an agenda/life plan. They are persuaded to pretend their plan is to not have a plan. Whereas the man can still come out and say "i want kids" or "i don't want kids" and both are seen as reasonable. But we've done ourselves no favours buying in to this. (I mean 'we', women, generally, ykwim). I would definitely tell my dd to make no apology for having her own plan and not to feel that it is unreasonable to be open about it.

i definitely bought in to the bullshit where a woman had to be 'cool girl' and just passively hope it all worked out in the end. so in other words, women with no control, just hoping a man will choose them IN TIME. it's bollix all right!

OP if you met and fell in love with a 43 year old, A real deep relationship thing, wouldn't you somewhere in your heart be considering if you are really prepared to go for that relationship, knowing it meant you would never have kids?

If you mess about in your 30's and don't settle down but fall for someone of your own age in your 40's you have effectively also missed out on the chance of a family.

Or else you just keep trying to pull women of child bearing age. Eventually that is likely to be quite difficult, either because there is no mutual attraction or because sensible 30 something's don't want kids with older men because of the risks and health difficulties associated with being a much older parent. I wouldn't want a partner looking to retire when our DC were still 13,14.

That is something to consider OP, I'm not trying to be nasty at all but not every man in his mid to late forties can attract a woman ten years younger. Some can. But not all. So it's a risk for a man to keep putting it off too.

Single 40 year old men without children (unless with very good reason) tend not to be that attractive to similar aged women who by this age will either be in relationships or divorced! Peter Pans indeed!

For a 40-50 year old man to be attractive and appealing to a woman in her 20s/early 30s. He would prob have to really stand out (successful, charismatic etc), as women would prob prefer someone their own age and be a youngish dad.
Men's options run out too unless they have the whole package!

I'm a long-term singleton in his late 30s, and TBH, what I know about relationships in practical terms you could write on the back of a postage stamp - but surely this is something you'd discuss within the first few months of dating someone?

I decided long ago that I didn't want kids, and would always be upfront about such things. In all honesty, I'd struggle to date someone who already had them.

Has OP gone?

Anyway, my thoughts are. Saying "Yes maybe but only with the right person but I'd also be happy if not" might not translate to "Yes definitely, let's throw out the condoms on date #3", but it also doesn't really translate to "maybe", does it?

I mean my understanding of "Maybe" is more "I haven't decided yet. I might want them later but I'm not sure". Not "Yes absolutely with the right person, but not a big deal if we can't", which is I think probably what you mean?

I think it's a communication error. Women hear "Maybe" and think you're going to faff around for the next 3-4 years and then there's a 50% chance you'll say "Nah actually I've thought about it and I'm not keen" whereas you're actually meaning "Yes probably, but I do want to invest some time and energy into the relationship first. I can't just jump into it with anyone."

What do you think they want to do? Women who want children still want to be in a relationship with the right person, even if their time for children is running out. At a push you can know if your partner is someone you want to have children with after a couple of years, hopefully if he's not, it would have been clear much earlier than this so you could have ended the relationship then. What they are trying to do by avoiding "maybe" answers is weed out people who have a higher chance of being unwilling later down the line, when they've invested time into the relationship, time which they can't afford to waste.