What is wrong with 30-something, single women?

[Male30something]

Hi there,

I hate to generalise, so I want to emphasise that what I am about to share is purely anecdotal and based on my experiences over the last couple of years. I really feel I need a female perspective hence me posting here - sorry to take up your time.

I had a couple of rewarding longterm relationships in my 20s which didn't work out for one reason or another and now aged over 30 I have started to date more seriously once again.

The problem is, single women in their 30s are totally different to 20 somethings.

I have dated semi-seriously four women in this age group over the last couple of years (one after another of course!) and I have been unable to take any of these relationships further because of one problem:

All four women are obsessed with jumping the gun and planning family/children etc. Now I appreciate women have different body pressures as they age and the fertility window is not that large, but it seems to me that all four of these lovely women value an incredible connection with a partner at a lower level than they do having children - possibly even with anyone vaguely suitable!

I haven't decided whether I want children personally, but I'm much more likely to end up wanting to have children with someone I have an amazing connection with I reckon. It is sad that so many women my age don't prioritise a loving relationship before children. All four women shared my interests eg exercise, travel, history, languages etc to varying degrees.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong on this - I'm just feeling a little dejected after a split, where for the fourth time in a row I have felt the same issues arise. I just spoke to the lovely lady in question who was upset that she will now have to wait even longer to have a child - proving my point once again. Different priorities? Where are the romantics?

The only absolute I have latched onto is that I want to find a life partner/wife

Well, there you have it then. You know what is like to want something. Would you mess around having casual relationships for the next few years? Probably not because that's not in your interests at this stage in your life.

That's what it's like for people who know they want to have children. They're not going to mess around for a few years with partners who don't.

I know plenty of men who knew they wanted kids, even if they were vague when younger about the age it would happen.

Are many of your male friends settled with kids yet, OP?

Nowt.

Now what's wrong with you? You are undecided until you find the right woman.

Don't blame us for your indecisiveness. That's all yours to deal with.

The women you met are clear on what they want. Nothing wrong with that at all. You should be glad of their honesty rather than blaming them for not fitting around you.

Clearly you don't feel that 'romantic connection' with them - so you've ended it. Fair play - but for God's sake, if you have different life visions, then so be it.

But there's still nothing 'wrong' with them. You can father a child until the day you die. They can't. They have a yearning. You don't. Ergo - we are not here to take on your issues.

Is this a wind up!!?? I guess OP, if you're handsome, charismatic and dynamic, then the answer is to continue to date women in their 20s.

But seriously, you can't blame women for having an agenda of their own! It's not even a foolish one, it is something that really matters. Women are allowed to have an agenda, same as yours is to avoid having children!

Biology does dictate. A 30-something woman who wants children would be a screaming idiot to hang around seeing if a great relationship developed, while watching her fertility pack its bags. If she wants or needs to have her baby within a stable relationship, all dates are a risk so it's imperative that she minimise the risk by establishing that her dates are also up for having kids (if things work out.) She can't afford to lose time building a relationship where reproduction might not be an option.

I've got to say you seem to have pretty good taste in women They knew their own minds, were in tune with their instincts, and were upfront with you. Things could be worse ... a lot worse.

As PP have said, a fairly large proportion of women aren't that bothered about having babies. I wasn't - I didn't mind either way (I didn't have any), and plenty more who know they don't or can't have kids. There's also a large chunk of womandom who've already got all the kids they want, and some who plan to acquire children on their own terms, independent of any relationship.

The world's still your oyster :) I feel your only error is expecting 30-year-olds to think like 20-year-olds! Word to the wise: 20-somethings become 30-somethings. Use your brain, and be as upfront with the sparky women you're meeting as they are with you.

Astounding, because among my closest friends the pressure to have children has always come from the men. The women have been working in careers they were loathe to step out off for maternity leave, and completely ambivalent about the idea of having children. The youngest any of them started a family was 38, I was 40.

Like others have said women who know they want children are going to raise the subject fairly early as they don't want to waste their fertile years on someone with different life goals. Simple logic.

OP, it is nice that you do volunteer work, it really is, but I for one am not particularly interested in whether or not you are Nice Guy. Stop arsing about, although maybe I am reading this too harshly as it is quite late!

As I understand it, female fertility peaks in the early to mid twenties, it then declines slowly until a dramatic drop at around 35. This means that if you are dating a 30 year old woman, she only has around five years left to have a child. And that's if she only wants one. The later she leaves it, the more complications and risks there are.

Essentially this boils down to the fact that she has no time to waste. Specifically, she has no time to waste on you if you haven't decided if you want kids or not, especially if you still see yourself as a twenty-something young man who isn't ready to be tied down yet.

Someone has already tried to use an analogy to explain to you what it feels like to have that biological countdown, but you have decided to spurn it and make some whimsical remark. So imagine this. In around five years your balls will drop off. You don't know exactly when, but it is coming and it's coming quickly. Because of the urgency, you will be forced to make the decision"do I want kids" and assuming the answer is yes, you'll be in a fucking hurry.

I apologise if that was rude, but it's late, I've run out of wine and you seem like one of those infuriating Ted Mosbys who label themselves as nice while actually being incredibly self absorbed.

Are you open to meeting women who have children already? Someone who isn't desperate but would consider another.
I think you need to just chill and keep dating and one day...BAM! You will meet the woman of your dreams and you won't care if she's tall/short, blonde/brunette, has kids/doesn't have kids, desperate for kids/ not desperate, likes labs/ doesn't like labs!!

@ABlandandDeadlyCourtesy,

I take you're point about there being all sorts of deal breakers in a relationship - I don't feel though that any one thing has stood out though from either side other than this big issue.

All of this makes incredibly interesting reading. Again anecdotal, but none of my male friends have made a lifelong decision either way as to whether they want children or not. Some are married, others in relationships, others single - none have kids yet as all have busy professional lives. I don't resent women taking a different approach, but what I do struggle with is the pressure to hurry up, but writing this, I now feel myself going round in circles.

Maybe you're asking out the wrong women. You say that you want a connection. Well, ask out the women that you feel a connection with. I reckon you're asking out the most attractive women and then wondering why there's no 'connection'.

Men are a bit thick like this imo. I've had that feeling in the past that I've connected with a man and then he scampers off with somebody prettier, or he friend - zones me and continues looking.

I don't want more children as I had them in my early thirties and now I'm in my early 40s but I doubt you'd date me and that's ok

You have to be realistic and realise that women are entitled to want what they want! If you don't like it, best of luck with those much younger women

Ha! Steve, your analogy way better than mine!

Mother Nature dictates the hurry. I suggest you listen for a large ticking noise from the next woman you date. If she suggests doing the deed when she's ovulating, then you will feel the pressure!

"I don't feel though that any one thing has stood out though from either side other than this big issue."

Sure, that's because it's enough of a deal breaker in itself! I'm not sure there is a bigger one, though religion might just pip it to the post.

Yes, Steve is spot on

Ummmm... Why is what a woman wants such a turn-off for you?

Perhaps she doesn't want to grow a 'deep connection' with someone who she knows she isn't going to be with?

If you are 'okay' with having kids or not having kids, what is the issue with growing a connection with someone who wants kids? She just wants to make sure you want kids too surely?

Sounds to me like you are scared of commitment, however you might dress it up as needing that 'deep connection' and the women in your life are not prepared to put their lives on hold to see how you feel about it all.

You have to remember that these woman will have spent their 20s falling in love, gaining that 'deep connection' with one or more fellas and still find themselves single in their thirties waiting for a man who lets them be a mother. That is pretty massive. Watching their friends and sister get married, have little ones, watching that family connection (that is that deep connection you lust after by the way, it is in the first days together with your new born and the trial and tribulations of life, you don't earn it by just looking at each other) without ever experiencing it because of men who haven't grown up yet to properly understand what 'love' really means.

Love grows and grows as you have shared experiences and that forms a deeper connection.

Thats the issue here, you think you will gain that by just hanging around for a few years, most people know that is bollocks.

I think the "imagine your balls will drop off in five years'' analogy is a good one.

This thread makes me sad for women, they're up against so much, just trying to find a half decent man that wants a family with them before it's too late. And if they do it on their own they're financially disadvantaged (family is a more successful economic unit) and they're judged. If they have a child with a donor they're judged. If women can't find a man who wants what they want in time, they're told they prioritised their career!

PS I'm sorry if some of you think this is a wind-up - it really is not.

@Steve, if my fertility ended at 35, I honestly feel I would let fate decide and having children would be a bonus as a possible result of finding "the one". I'm sorry if my topic appears narcissistic - I'm as upset as you are tired and drunk by the sound of it!

I can well believe this is not a wind-up... depressingly so.

Ah, you believe in "the one"

Do you think a characteristic of "the one" is that you would have important things in common?

none of my male friends have made a lifelong decision either way as to whether they want children

Well, anecdotes are not data, but for the sake of balance: At 42, I married a 31-year-old. He knew he wanted children. As I've said, I wasn't all that bothered either way so his desire took priority. Given my lousy fertility, we agreed we'd adopt. (Then we split up; he has children now.) You know, in a relationship the decided takes precedence over the impartial. You only get conflict when you're differently decided - which you say isn't your position, but perhaps it is? Have you secretly decided you don't want children? No shame in that.

It might be reassuring to learn that 25% of UK women have no children by the age of 45, and that's still going up.

Sorry, apologies for labelling this a wind up. I hadn't read the thread properly. I believe you're genuine now but your dilemma is self-absorbed because as a pp said, you're upset and confused because what women want turns you off.

I feel so relieved that I'm forty something and this crap is behind me!!

if my fertility ended at 35, I honestly feel I would let fate decide

Aha! I was like that :) It just isn't a priority for you. Therefore you need to be upfront about this with your dates. Ideally, you'll meet a "the one" who's as impartial as you on the matter - you've got triple that option, though, as you could also end up with a "the one" who doesn't want to have children, or already has enough.

I think we can ward off fate though. Why should we let fate dictate,,,it's defeatist! Be pro active is what I say. Be upfront with potential partners... "I want a loving partnership first and foremost and if there is a spark then I'm in this for the long run, kids n all". Don't feel pressure. I was 35 when I met my DP and was pregnant within 3 months of meeting him (and I'm in a professional career). It wasn't planned but hey, it was fine. He ended up being more keen on the idea of parenthood than me! You just never know...to quote Forest Gump "life is like a box of chocolates, you just never know what you're gonna get". Chill man!

I think he thinks he is Ted Mosby from HIMYM. That he is "romantic" and "different from the other guys" when in reality he is, from what I've seen, just as selfish as the next man. Maybe you are a unique snowflake OP, but at the end of the day you are still wasting the time of these women just as much as if you were any other commitment phobic guy.

Although clearly my two glasses of wine with dinner have rendered me hysterical and illogical.

for the those of you who liked my analogy I don't think he imagined it properly if he came up with the mumbo jumbo 'ooh I'd see if was my destiny' type spiel. He's pissed me off a bit so I'm feeling feisty, tell me if I start BU.