Mother in law power struggle

[Jellyboobs]

My best friend has moved to France with her family. They're 5 minutes away from her mil and are staying with her until their house is sorted, and will obviously be visiting with the kids fairly often. Only thing is, the mil has said she won't have my friend breastfeed her son in the common areas of the house and has said she must go into a bedroom or (I quote) the laundry room to feed him.
He's 3 months old, underweight and has had problems bf due to lactose intolerance and she just wants to be able to feed him when he needs it.
Her dp has spoken to his mum too, but the result is the same "My house, my rules"

Any advice here?

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

5mad... You said in your post, no visits for about ten years. It comes across as either you do as you see fit - no matter where you are - or the wishes of the other person. Maybe that's no what you meant so apologies if I've misinterpreted what you wrote.

Some posters on this thread have said that people around them haven't liked it and they've taken account of those people and not made them feel uncomfortable. OP didn't say that b/f wouldn't be permitted, has just asked that it not be done in front of her. So many posters have dramatized that to mean that the child wouldn't be fed full stop.

I understand where you're coming from, breastfeeding should be unremarkable but there's a fine line between normalising it and forcing people to see it when they don't want to. Some people do not want to see it and they shouldn't be made to. I don't have an issue with it but when a previous poster said that they would breastfeed in front of PIL on purpose, when they don't want to see it, just to make a point, would make me very angry. I despise that kind of thing, it achieves nothing other than bad feeling.

I think it's important to make sure that a woman has a choice of method for feeding her child and that the method is nobody else's business. If you're in somebody else's home and you know they feel uncomfortable then you don't dismiss that. Your rights aren't being violated by being asked to feed in a bedroom and to maintain that this isn't acceptable and on par with being asked to feed in a bathroom/toilet, which it isn't.

I suppose I've never felt that 'rubbing people's noses in it' has ever been a useful method. It doesn't educate - quite the reverse really - it gets people's backs up.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

its not about rights being violated or anything like that. Its about the DIL being made to feel unwelcome despite being invited to stay at the MILs house. The DIL has to feed her baby, that's not optional. The baby is also underweight and in danger of not thriving. The OP has said that the baby currently cluster feeds in the evenings.

So the DIL is effectively being banished to a bedroom for hours at a time (not as bad as a bathroom obviously, but still isolated) because of her choice of feeding method. If she was bottle feeding formula she would be welcome in the communal areas. This effectively excludes the DIL from family life. I think people would be less accepting of the MILs attitude if it was the other way round, and she was refusing to accept bottle feeding in the communal areas because she finds it offensive.

It's the MILs choice to exclude and isolate the DIL based on the DIL's choice of feeding method. The consequences of that are not the DILs fault - if she then doesn't see that much of her grandchild then that is the MILs responsibility.

I really think that the DIL and her husband need to leave and find somewhere else to stay whilst their house is being sorted out.

[slithytove]

If I had mil visiting me, would it be ok if I asked her to leave whatever room I was bf in?

I would consider this terribly rude and isolating.

[Sapat]

Being French, I can confirm that breastfeeding in public is not the done thing. And personally, I don't breastfeed in front of my in-laws.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

It would make more sense for somebody who doesn't want to witness b/f to go and do something elsewhere for the duration rather than the feeding mother.

Whether we like it or not, some people are 'put off' and even 'repulsed' by the act. It's not an abnormal act, it's just feeding but all the commonsense in the world isn't going to negate the visceral feelings that some people have about breastfeeding.

MIL in this case doesn't dislike her DIL. I can quite understand the awkwardness. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for the two women to get to know each other and perhaps bond? If it were me, I might suggest to MIL that she sits in the bedroom with me whilst I was feeding the baby (discreetly), saying that I would like the company. Maybe it would work and MIL would bend to support feeding in the communal areas, who knows?

[Offred]

there's a fine line between normalising it and forcing people to see it when they don't want to. Some people do not want to see it and they shouldn't be made to. I don't have an issue with it but when a previous poster said that they would breastfeed in front of PIL on purpose, when they don't want to see it, just to make a point, would make me very angry. I despise that kind of thing, it achieves nothing other than bad feeling.

There's not a fine line, there is no difference. Normalising breastfeeding actually involves this kind of thing, which is not forcing people to see it when they don't want to exactly, but the MIL having to face up to her unreasonable view and take the negative consequences herself if she is severely entrenched in it.

Some people don't want to see it and their ridiculousness shouldn't be indulged because breastfeeding is a public health issue which surpasses an individual's unreasonable and irrational discomfort with it. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't need to look. It is no inconvenience to her to look away.

I think you do 'have an issue with it' if you don't understand why supporting breast feeding is more important than supporting offence taking in principle.

[5madthings]

sapat the mil isn't French though bit I am wondering if she is like my mil was and worried about offeending other people ie if she has friends round that they may be offended by the feeding? My mil was worried about me bfeeding in public and suggesTed I find somewhere private bot because she didn't like bfeeding bit because she was worried about upsetting/offeending others, she is very concerned about stuff like that. I just said I was fine and she got over it.

And yes I said I wouldn't visit for ten years as I have five kids and spent about ten years continually bfeeding one or other of them! So I wouldn't go somewhere I was not welcome to feed. Said relative would have been welcome to visit us. I dnot think that is unreasonable.

As your kids gets older you see bfeeding is a small part of overall parenting but when you are doing it, living that moment it is a big part of life and ita important. It would have been a massive snub to have someone try to banish me to somewhere out of sight to feed and very isolating esp when baby was young as they feed so much. Also practically difficult once I had more than one child and not sosomething I would want them to see.


People have also said it's am age thing, I am
Not so sure ime those who have been moat welcoming and nice about bfeeding were elderly people, they often commented how lovely it was and offered to fetch me a drink or something to eat etc.

The Times I had silly faces/comments where feeding at university and it was young males 18/19 and they had been to an all boys school until uni, there was much sniggering and a sense of omg from them! They got over it.


If the mil hadn't wanted her dil bfeeding this should have Bern made clear when she offered to have her to stay, not once she was there. And as fir being forced to see, well no one is saying she had to sit and watch and there really isn't much to see.

[Offred]

There is more to it anyway. The MIL is not supportive of breast feeding at all and is making comments about giving the baby formula. I think the banishing is about trying to impose her feeding preference on the DIL but she clearly has no concept of how damaging that could be for the baby or just feels she's more important.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I don't have any issues with b/f at all. It's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned. It's a method of feeding that some women chose and they should be able to choose it if they want to. I'm telling you that I don't have issues with it; it's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned, it's just a feeding method.

I'm not made uncomfortable by it but I can understand why some people are. If you think they're ridiculous for feeling that way, Offred then you must go on thinking it. They are entitled to their views and, other than asking them why they feel that way or being more discreet, there is nothing else to be done. The baby is going to be fed either way. Is it really worth the drama? I don't think it is.

It's NOT a public health issue. I absolutely disagree with that. Some people can not or do not want to breastfeed; formula is available as an alternative to that. It's fine to be pro-b/f, it's also fine to not feel that way. It's nobody else's business how a woman chooses to feed their child - absolutely nobody's. This thread isn't about that though.

Hopefully the stay will be a short one if it's necessary at all.

[Offred]

It's NOT a public health issue.

Err... Yes it is, like obesity, smoking etc because lack of breast feeding has avoidable health and mortality risks for the general population. Breast feeding has no negative effects for society. Some people feel uncomfortable with it? Well tough titty tbh! They have no valid reason to feel uncomfortable with it and whilst I'm sure it isn't very nice to feel offended for that individual, society requires them to grow up and get on with it because the public health concern is greater.

It's important to support breast feeding by challenging people who 'feel uncomfortable with it' because those people are responsible for a lot of women giving up or not wanting to try in the first place. They have an effect.

Unfortunately women who have recently given birth are not up to that challenge very often and clearly it is often best to make a pragmatic choice to avoid conflict. However I'm shocked at people seriously trying to argue that someone's offence at breast feeding should, in principle, take precedence over supporting a new mother to feed a vulnerable underweight baby.

[Offred]

And it's not about women who formula feed. It's about this breastfeeding woman who is not being supported to breastfeed. Whose MIL is trying to interfere in an undermine her feeding choices when she is quite vulnerable. If you really believed in feeding choices being no-one else's business you'd surely believe the MIL is out of order?

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

It's not a public health issue; not everybody breastfeeds. If this needed to be addressed then formula would NOT be permitted to be marketed, would not be suggested as a viable alternative, etc. Breastfeeding may be the preferable option but that's the keyword, option, and women have the choice.

I think that MIL could busy herself elsewhere, could be chatting in another part of the room whilst doing something else whilst OP's friend feeds. I think MIL's distaste (or whatever it is) is nonsensical but that is how she feels. I've suggested upthread that OP's friend could do a little gentle digging but OP's friend isn't here so none of the speculation is of any use really.

MIL isn't interfering, she's not preventing breastfeeding. She IS though stating that it shouldn't be done in the communal areas. The feeding choices aren't being undermined or prevented in any way. What you don't like is that the feeding choices are not being heralded in the way perhaps you think they should be? Being bullish and blunt about it will not change MIL's views, it may just cement them and there are better ways of changing opinion.

[Offred]

She is though, she's saying she doesn't understand why the baby can't be given formula and she is making it difficult for her to feed (see earlier post about leaving food, TV program etc).

I think your view on formula is very naive. Infant formula marketing IS banned which is why follow on formulas exist despite being unnecessary. Lack of breastfeeding actually just factually is a public health issue. Public health england consider it so and include it in their strategy. There is strong evidence for the health costs and unnecessary deaths from formula feeding/lack of breast feeding and also for lack of support leading to women giving up before they are ready and our breast feeding rates are very low here.

You might not feel breastfeeding should be a public health issue but it is, largely because science has demonstrated that it is an issue which effects the health of the public.

[Offred]

What I disagree with is the view that in principle someone's offence taking should be upheld over supporting the breast feeding of a vulnerable baby. This isn't a normal breast feeding relationship, so no, it isn't that I feel it should be heralded, it's that I'm recognising that this mother needs extra support from the people around her.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

But that is not what this thread is about really, is it? MIL says no feeding in communal areas - OP's friend says that she doesn't want to be confined to the bedroom/laundry room to feed. There's an impasse.

Infant formula marketing isn't banned, it's just repackaged into 'follow on' product. Sleight of hand, yes. Breastfeeding isn't 'necessary' although many women choose to feed their baby via this method. Infant mortality has many causes. I'm not clear how helpful it is to suggest that formula feeding is the root cause. I'd suggest that the NHS burdens are being felt because of the feeding that goes on post-weening when children and adults are feeding themselves with crap.

Back to the point of the thread... where is OP's friend's husband in all of this? He should be helping his partner to find alternative accommodate for his family if communal area feeding is a sticking point.

[Offred]

Of course infant mortality has many causes but it is scientific fact that formula feeding is one. Also that formula feeding impacts later feeding choices and increases obesity rates in children which in turn increases adult obesity. Also evidence that breast feeding reduces breast cancer rates.

Lack of breast feeding costs the NHS millions per year which is why it is included as a public health issue. Nowadays these are scientifically led bodies who only update their strategies and guidance when there is strong scientific evidence to support the change - why do you think it is included if it is just a way of feeding a baby?

I know it's not what the thread is about but I feel it interferes with people's ability to make an informed choice when people make factually inaccurate statements and naive speculations on the internet.

I agree about it being an impasse though.

[Offred]

And the public health strategies are not about imposing breast feeding on women. They are about supporting women who want to breastfeed or to try breast feeding, normalising breastfeeding so that more women choose to and educating people so they can make informed choices about feeding methods. It's no good choosing formula and then finding out afterwards that it increases the risks to your baby's health. Our breastfeeding support service also includes support with formula feeding designed to reduce some of the associated risks.

[Maalia]

It is definitely a cultural and generational issue and should be approached as such, i.e. With a bit compromise on both sides, bearing in mind the needs of the baby are paramount as it is a difficult situation. If I were French, I would not consider the request completely outlandish. However... There needs to be compromise, and the OP should not be afraid to negotiate. The MIL's house and rules for sure, but she is also the host and needs to be hospitable. If my alternatives were the bedroom or laundry room, I would check if they were comfortable enough for both the baby and myself, i.e. Nice comfy chair, tv, magazines, as it is clearly going to be a long haul with a baby who has feeding difficulties. If not, can the OP use one of the bf covers? Surely that's not offensive to anyone and it would be the path of least resistance. Looking at the long term, if the OP has married into a French family, she needs to get used to the fact that French people are fairly outspoken and don't mind being controversial, nothing personal. They respect when people push back, politely of course. OP, don't turn it into WW3 but stick to what you think is a fair arrangement.

[ConferencePear]

I always breastfed my two in private and I loved it. It was our special time together and I could focus my whole attention on them and not be half doing something else at the same time. I just don't see a problem.

[PostmanPatAlwaysRingsTwice]

They are not French. And I don't see how you can lump together the attitudes of all French people anyway.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

... or all British people, or all ANY people.

People are not one homogenous mass, they have differing views and opinions and the right to have those should be respected.

I don't know where the French thing has come into the thread other than that the friend has moved to France and that's where her husband's family lives also. Local culture, local customs, people follow them.

[Maalia]

I am not lumping all French people together, just suggesting there might be cultural differences at play. It doesn't mean all French people would recognise themselves in that post. Anyway, we don't know if there has been much discussion beyong MIL request so it might be worth starting with that.

[momnipotent]

If I am reading correctly the DIL has only been at MIL's for a day or so.

I am going to assume that MIL is from the generation where the majority of babies were formula fed and has no concept of what breast feeding actually looks like, my own DM had never seen a baby breast fed until I had mine! Likely MIL imagines that it is a case of going to the bedroom for half an hour or so, then back in the living room for the next 3 hours until the next feed. If DIL has only been there for a day or so then MIL has not seen what EBF actually looks like. It is possible that once she realizes that DIL will be shut up in the bedroom for the majority of the evening she will change her mind.

Or maybe she won't, in which case DIL and her DH need to move out of that house.

I don't think the BF in public laws are relevant at all here since it is someone's private home. There's plenty of stuff that goes on in public that I don't want going on in my house!