Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH suggested I put this to you lot. What do you think?

422 replies

AntideluvianCat · 25/07/2014 11:43

I'm going to try to keep this as neutral as possible, as it seems DH and I both completely believe we're in the right, despite our opposing views. Also going to try not to drip feed.

We've been together two years, married just over a year. We both have DDs from previous relationships. Mine (12) lives with us and goes to see her dad overnight at the weekend; his (13) stays two nights a week. My DD has some SEN, and coupled with the hormonal chaos of being 12, can be quite hard work. I also work 25 hours a week in a job that I love, but that can also be stressful and a bit overwhelming (social work).

A couple of months ago, DH told me that if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing. I was absolutely flabberghasted. It was like being kicked in the head. He did apologise, and we patched things up a bit, but he keeps coming back to the same thing every time we have words. He says that it would make him feel wanted and appreciated, that he is constantly giving to me, and that I give nothing back.

Thing is, I DO want and appreciate him. I love him. I'm so glad we found each other, at this relatively late stage in life (I'm 40, he's 50). But I find the weekdays hard, when DD is playing up and I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything. As consequence, sex tends to happen at the weekends. I'd say we probably have sex a couple of times at the weekend, and sometimes, but not always, once during the week.

The funny thing is, that at the weekends when I'm relaxed and can focus on us rather than everybody else, I do dress up for him, and am happy to do so. I really enjoy it, and love the effect it has on him. This morning, during yet another argument about this, I reminded him of this, but he said it doesn't count because I'm only doing it under duress. I'm not doing it under duress, but it seems I can't win. He is insistant that I should - on say, a Tuesday evening, when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm, I should pop on some saucy underwear and adopt the sex kitten persona. But I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on mme. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour.

In the interests of balance, I should add that DH has more money than me and props me up a bit financially, which I'm incredibly grateful for and regularly tell him so. He does most of the washing up, hoovers the house once a week, cleans the bathrooms, does any gardening, and helps me with DD a lot. I have quite high standards domestically (but not ridiculous - I only clean once a week and change beds every 7 - 10 days), and am very tidy. Being tidy helps me feel on top of things, and I make no apology for it. DH says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.

An example: He eats a lot of biscuits. I have asked him to use a plate for these, as otherwise I have to clear up his crumbs. He refuses; thinks I'm being ridiculous. I got a telling off a couple of weeks ago for asking his DD to eat off a plate too. I've tried to explain to him that this little thing could actually help with the sex thing - I wouldn't feel so resentful having to clear up after him all the time. But it is just dismissed. He actually said to me this morning (and I quote) " we should have high standards domestically, and high standards in the bedroom" Shock

Your goign to tell me to LTB aren't you? Sad

OP posts:
ManNetter · 27/07/2014 13:28

Root- I've read the comments. I have also been at pains to state that I do not agree with what the op's oh is up to.

FunkyBoldRibena · 27/07/2014 13:32

He is playing you like a fiddle OP; the worse it is for you the better it is for him. With a mysterious man on here playing you even more, making you feel perhaps we are all wrong and giving you a little chink of 'perhaps this is an ok thing and you should consider this' just makes him even more satisfied.

It's a very sick game, the whole fucking thing.

At least you are just two years in, and can get the fuck out as soon as the penny drops.

rootypig · 27/07/2014 13:34

But after the comments, which you don't address, you say

but if his excuse is genuine, it is worth giving a fair hearing by the op

So you clearly still think that this is OP's H's response to feeling aggrieved about something specific.

ManNetter · 27/07/2014 14:14

Funky- if I've got this right, you are insinuating that I have an agenda. If that is the case, I doubt that there is much I can say to make any difference to your opinion as I have stated my reasons in earlier comments

Root- it is possible to disagree with something and give it a fair hearing before coming to a final conclusion. That's what the OP has to decide for herself despite the opinions of the comments here. Mine included.

We are all working with limited information. It looks bad taken at face value but the op is closer to both sides of the story than any of us on here. Under those circumstances, i would prefer to reserve judgement (as a third party)

Bruins · 27/07/2014 14:44

justiceofthePeas Of course you are correct. Getting your masochists and sadists muddled up is not to be recommended. Now there's a sentence I never thought I'd write..

rootypig · 27/07/2014 14:57

Of course you can disagree and come to a different conclusion ManNetter (though don't tell yourself that that amounts to reserving judgement, because it doesn't). What you had to say just didn't really seem to follow the discussion.

vicmackie · 27/07/2014 15:03

There is absolutely no reason why any woman in a situation like OP's should feel obliged to invest yet more of her time and energy into listening to the creep, or trying to understand his "reasons" for being a bastard.

Women are not allowed to just react to bad behaviour from men by saying "get fucked." No: they HAVE to bend over backwards and contort themselves and put themselves through the wringer trying, trying, trying to find a way to make the truth staring them in the face go away, or trying to find a way to force themselves to live with it.

I think women should be taught to say "get fucked" a lot more readily than they often do.

FunkyBoldRibena · 27/07/2014 16:06

Funky- if I've got this right, you are insinuating that I have an agenda. If that is the case, I doubt that there is much I can say to make any difference to your opinion as I have stated my reasons in earlier comments

I really couldn't give a flying fuck what you think to be honest. My only concern is for the OP.

CarryOnDancing · 27/07/2014 17:10

Couldn't agree more vicmackie.

It's probably not just a male/female thing and suits all cases of abuse but it does seem to be the most common "polite" "real life" expectation when someone has been crapped on. Sometimes no further discussion is required and that's the best advice!

Sunflower1985 · 27/07/2014 18:50

Thank you OP. How are you doing? I wonder if his treatment of you really has left you feeling like you 'deserve' this disrespectful treatment. Tit-for-tat. It always seems to come down to confidence, or lack thereof.

The idea of being alone being so terrifying plus never knowing if this is how most relationships are, behind closed doors.

Yes to the bonfire by the way. I'm having a purge tonight.

justiceofthePeas · 27/07/2014 19:22

sunflower Wine happy bonfire.

bruins Grin

Blueuggboots · 27/07/2014 19:32

Well, just to add to this, I've just spoken to my teenage stepdaughter. Her dad, (my exH) has refused to buy her something she had asked him for because she has upset him. But he won't tell her what she has done!
She is guessing it's because she didn't send him a Father's Day card 6 weeks (??) ago but is only guessing. She doesn't have his address, so how can she??
And it starts again........

GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt · 27/07/2014 23:04

His "reason" is bollocks and a massive red herring. He felt he had the right to punish for a perceived transgression. Without disclosing any of this to his wife, who continues in the relationship utterly bemused as to why her husband is behaving in this way for almost half the time they have been married.

Also, needing stockings and suspenders in order to be able to get it up isn't "kinky". It's just sad.

Zazzles007 · 28/07/2014 00:09

Blueuggboots I am sorry that your stepdaughter is going through this particular issue with your ex, her father. Both my parents are like this, and it is neither rational or logical behaviour. The 'parent' (and I use that term loosely) sees personal relationships as a series of 'transactions', where if you 'did something wrong', they give themselves 'permission' to punish you. The problem is that the perceived 'wrong-doing' and the 'punishment' have nothing to do with each other, and neither does the 'wronged' talk to you about the issue.

The really negative thing about this sort of dynamic is that the child/person learns that the world does not work in a logical and rational way, that they must second-guess people's motivations and thoughts, because they grew up/live in such an irrational and illogical world. I grew up in a similarly dysfunctional fashion. For example in my late teens, my father stone-walled me for 5 months, only I never knew what I had done, and when I asked, I was given a dirty, dirty look of hatred, and silence! Just madness! Can you imagine what this does to a child's/person's psyche and self esteem?

Anti I hope that many posters are giving you food for thought, and I wish you the strength and clarity of mind to see your way through this situation, no matter what the outcome.

Thumbwitch · 28/07/2014 02:01

Anti - I have to say (hands up to being a pedant) that I did notice your name mis-spell but assumed it was deliberate! Go with that explanation. Grin

Mannetter - can you not see, really, that the OP's H's "excuse" actually makes the situation that much worse? He's been trying emotional blackmail on her to get her to wear what he wants, do what he wants etc.; and then he comes out with this "excuse" that suggests he's been punishing her for 4 months without her ever having a clue that she'd done something "meriting" punishment? (Only in his mind, obviously - nothing she has done truly merits punishment of any kind!)

If you can't see that, then you have problems yourself. It's not about "being fair, seeing both sides, reaching compromise" - it's the fact that the man is emotionally manipulative, abusive and can't take responsibility for anything, nor communicate effectively as an adult. It isn't realistically possible to have a rational "chat" and reach compromise with someone like that - because that's not what they want at all. What they want is to see the other person grovel, apologise, agree to whatever they want and allow them to continue in their bullying autocratic ways without check.

The "excuse" was just that - something he dredged up that might have annoyed him at the time - but it absolutely does not become a valid reason for his behaviour at any point just because he says so.

BOFster · 28/07/2014 02:05

Yes, I assumed it was a clever pun Grin. That's how well you come across, so don't take any of his flim-flam!

springydaffs · 28/07/2014 08:24

You said, when he made his dressing up/relationship end announcement, that it hit you like a truck. LISTEN TO THAT RESPONSE. (Sorry to shout)

AntideluvianCat · 28/07/2014 08:50

Thank you everyone Flowers for taking the time and effort to post and support me. I'm ok, we've talked a lot over the weekend, and he has aplogised profusely.

He says he'd now like to read the thread in case it ends up in the Daily Mail , so I've asked for some of my posts to be deleted I'm sorry if that makes for a disjointed thread.

sunflowers, I hope you enjoyed your bonfire Grin How utterly bloody brilliant.

blueuggs FFS! What an arse. I am sorry.

OP posts:
AntideluvianCat · 28/07/2014 08:59

thumb and BOF Thank you for your votes of confidence. I seem to be losing the ability to spell as I get older. Is that normal?!

OP posts:
gamerchick · 28/07/2014 09:04

There's no point in deleting your posts they've all been quoted.

Why would you anyway?

wyrdyBird · 28/07/2014 09:08

They can delete the whole thread to protect your privacy, Anti.
You can always return under another name if you want to?

Castlemilk · 28/07/2014 09:10

Well. Keep this thread, because you will be back in this place, metephorically speaking, again.

Do you know why? You said upthread, way upthread 'He is clever and funny and lovely.'

His behaviour (and pretty much everything else you have said about him, from his Disney Dad tendencies to his inability to have any insight into the effect of porn use on his sexual intelligence) demonstrates that he is none of those things at anything other than a completely superficial level.

Most particularly, no-one who could have behaved like this and then used the reasons he has to desperately try to wriggle out of it can ever, objectively, be described as a clever person.

He is deeply mediocre both intellectually and emotionally. And you don't seem to be, at all. Which is why you expect more, and therefore why you ended up here. And why you will be here again, when he stops feeling abashed.

Fairylea · 28/07/2014 09:13

Surely having to delete some posts before he reads it proves you're having to modify your behaviour to make him happy? Wrong on so many levels. Plus he's going to be suspicious about the ones you've asked to be deleted (which have been quoted so will still be in there as others have said)... its hardly going to make for a happy resolution!

I'm sorry but I think you've been duped. This isn't about the holiday. This is about control and manipulation and the fact you need to delete before you let him read something that was originally posted to be read by him shows how much control he has over you.

It's not a healthy relationship at all.

Bruins · 28/07/2014 09:29

Bite the bullet, give him the thread as it stands.
You have been remarkably gracious throughout.

PhallChops · 28/07/2014 09:44

Cripes Anti - As a 50yo bloke some of what you wrote made me think you were my DP except I've never asked her to dress-up for sex. In fact, I suspect if I ever did she'd punch my lights out and rightly so. I find plenty of ways to "perv" (meant in the nicest possible way) over my DP without asking her to act like a prostitute!