How would/did you handle this betrayal?

[avrilinca]

Has anyone had a D day where their H has sat them down and confessed to an affair (in the past) but neither apologised nor said they want to leave? He says he can't apologise or ask for forgiveness because he doesn't regret it. He also says he doesn't want to be with the OW now but he does want to be in touch with her. I can't find anything anywhere on the internet that has a similar precedent - seems to be either apologetic (cathartic or pre-emptive) confessions or unplanned discoveries. It seems just unbelievably cruel and crazy-making to me.

Surely what he wants is no longer important? What do you want to do? It sounds like he's a cruel and selfish man, do you even want to be with him?

Go with your gut.... Personally, I'd have no time for whatever it is he wants (the cheek of the guy) and I'd tell him to pack a bag and get out of my face while I consider my options. He's not apologetic and he wants to stay in touch with his lover???? Fuck that...

Full disclosure: I'm the OW, not the BS. Am (thoroughly ashamed and) maddened myself but I (obviously!) am not the victim here. For the sake of clarity, yes I am assuming he tells me the truth, and I realise the craziness of doing so. I realise I have huge issues I have to work through - any flaming will probably do me good.

Sorry - shit, I should have put that in the first post.

I would like to think that I'd kick him out. He's had an affair so should be grovelling, apologising and begging forgiveness - doesn't seem to be doing any if this. In order to give you confidence it won't happen again he should promise to cut all contact - he's not prepared to do this.

I'd want to know why he had an affair and thinks so little of me that he'll ride roughshod over my feelings by refusing to be sorry for it. I'd also want to know why he wants to stay in touch the ow - is there a child in the picture? Basically I'd want to know what's in it for me to stay in the relationship, because from your description nothing springs to mind...

Sorry... you're the OW and this conversation about not wanting to be with the OW is something you've witnessed? Something you've been told about? I don't really understand the question

incogkneeto - that's what's confusing me. I don't understand why she doesn't just kick him out and why she's leaving him to make the decision. Then again, I'm completely different to her, I'm not religious and I've never bought the whole 'ownership' model of marriage, so as hard as I try (and I'm getting closer) I really struggle to empathise. Not with her pain - I've always empathised with that (and hated myself for exacerbating it, which believe it or not is not inconsistent with continuing to do so), but with the thick-or-thin way of life where you are bound to the choices you made at a young age.

Well, it's down to each couple's relationship, isn't it?

I probably wouldn't be that bothered, nor would I ask for forgiveness, because I'm not that set on sexual exclusivity and my relationship is fine, so my only objection in principle to an affair (that it would take emotional energy away from my relationship) would obviously not apply.

But most people would feel differently, and what matters is what the W feels, not what the h or the ow think on this occasion.

No, he's told me about it. So it could all be total bullshit. I don't think so but it's probable my judgement is off, right?

I'd stop worrying about him or her & walk away from the whole grisly because you're obviously being told a big old pack of lies and he's a massive waste of your life.

Okay, yes this happens all the time and it tends to happen for one of two reasons:

1. The man wants to be with the OW, or has promised to be, and he wants the DW to be the one to end it because he is not strong enough.
2. The affair has become so painful and problematic that someone confesses in order to change the situation. They have no real plan for what happens next but just think that by telling 'the truth' it will become clear and someone else will carry the emotional burden and make the decisions.

As you can see it tends to be the action of a man afraid of conflict and/or decisions. It is often the behavior of someone with narcissistic or entitled tendencies too since they are not prepared to 'give up' anything or sacrifice much despite their betrayal.

However, the most important thing to bear in mind is that it is unlikely he is telling you, the OW the truth. This period involved deception for the wife and the mistress in many cases. He probably has told her that he wants to stay with her, that he is sorry (for hurting her) but may have said that it is hard to regret it because he fell in love and the love had meaning. He is probably saying that he would rather be with his wife but would like the OW to be his friend, in time, as that would stop the pain of the total loss of that person.

Most wives with self-respect scorn and reject this. Many men continue contact with the OW on the quiet, too afraid to lose it until the OW finds her own self-respect and stops contact.

What are you going to do? He sounds like a dick.

Can I edit my original post? I didn't mean to make it sound like I was the wife. No, no child. I think he would like to be with me (OW) in the future but doesn't want them splitting up to be about that and knows he couldn't ask me to wait. Affair was 1.5 years ending 1 year ago but we've been pathetic at staying NC (usually me). I make efforts, date other people etc, just really struggle to find anything vaguely close to the connection I have with him.

Yes, it's very likely that some or all of it is lies, OP. Very likely. Be prepared for the DW to contact you herself. Otherwise, beware what he's saying.

Oh, OP. This is so sad.

You know this is a story, right, a pattern> You know women are caught like this for years? And die childless because of it? You need to stop contact completely now. I know you won't. Please prove me wrong.

Thanks for not flaming me! He sounds like a dick and a massive waste of my life. I should get these tattooed in reverse script on my forehead. I think he's really confused and messed up. I was married to one of those and he treated me like shit for ten years and (with the help of MN) I managed to exit that relationship and even maintain a cordial relationship with XH BUT fell straight into this. What a tit. May be worth considering that I still struggle with boundaries with XH - not sex but pandering behaviour, compensating and apologising for him all the time. Have had shitloads of therapy. Three other lovely men on scene, but they aren't as clever or interesting and I don't just resonate with them the way I do with him. Am thinking about an interesting thread on here the other day (I'm a compulsive lurker) about what makes the spark and uncertainty/instability and I think that might be a real thing - grew up with emotionally absent, narcissistic parents. I wonder (sadly) if any survivor of emotional abuse maybe has to learn to recognise that 'coming home' feeling as a massive alarm bell.

avrilinca - I'm not sure I'm understanding you.

You seem to be blaming this bloke's wife for not kicking him out. You seem to be blaming her for not making a decision.

But what decision? To stay with him? It seems like that's her decision to make.

Or to not let him go to you? Seems like he's already decided to stay with his wife.

So, I'm not getting your point. You are blaming his wife for accepting his infidelity?

That's it?

He is stringing you along OP.

Thanks, Blood. I need that. I'm not childless, thank god, though I do wake up in cold sweats thinking about my childless friends getting trapped in this situation because everyone thinks it would never happen to them and it's just such a headfuck wormhole. I thought I was a nice person who would never be complicit in the betrayal of someone else. But now I think that's just an unrepresentatively reductive way to talk about anyone. (Do I sound confused? I'm so confused. I'm so tired of this taking all my emotional and mental energy.)

God, no! I'm not blaming his wife. I just can't understand it, either of their behaviours: why he would do it this way (although Blood that was helpful, thank you) and why she wouldn't tell him to FOTTFSOF. The longer he keeps her in this torturous limbo the less I feel like I could ever be with him. He's being much crueller to her, and his kids, than he has been to me. I do believe him (it's independently verified to a degree), 95% of the time, but yes I do realise there's the chance he's just another predictable lying shitbag. The only thing he'd be getting out of it is an ego boost at this point, but maybe that's enough. We have only been in contact about once a fortnight since he told her (nearly three months ago).

I'm really sorry OP, I too think that you're probably not in possession of the full facts. If you split a year ago, he's had plenty of time to put his house in order. His actions speak the truth though - he chose his wife.

I've never bought the whole 'ownership' model of marriage

Well you wouldn't, would you ?. It's someone else's marriage though, isn't it.

So why not tell her and apologise and make a clean break? Or even not tell her at all? I do see that the geography of it tells me his choice! He recognises he's shy of making decisions and valuing his emotions and he's trying to work on these things. He thinks we should be NC until he has something material to tell me. I agree in principle but can't seem to stick to it in practice. Hmm, good to write this down and note how pathetic I come across!

Thanks for being so gentle with me, I really appreciate it. It's a horrible situation to be in.

avrilinca - this is a bad man.

If you have been told right he is capable of emotional torture to both you and his wife.

He may be attractive and charismatic but he can't be a good man. Because good men don't behave like this. They just don't.

Do you honestly believe that you and he can have a happy future? Could you ever trust him?

No matter how strong the pull, walk away from this man. He sounds cruel.

AF - I deserve that. As in 'you manifestly don't, unless you get your kicks out of stealing'? It is someone else's marriage. It is what they agree between themselves, but the church also gets in there too. 'Bought' was the wrong word, too flippant. I mean I don't understand it.

Are the three other men on the scene married too?