Quick - advice needed please. How much of a bitch should I be?

[Metamorph]

Was on holiday with DP and DD until last week. We were due to come back last Thursday. When the apartment became available for an extra week, DP decided to stay for this weekend. I had to get back for work, so I came back on my own on Thursday as planned (with massive suitcase, DD and pram.)

He's just called to ask if I can sort out his flight home.

He was too slack to get to the airport before last Thursday, so he just wasted his existing ticket - didn't change it.
He has no credit card and his money has now run out.
For a blessed change his parents have actually not bailed him out immediately.
He has a roof over his head and food in the apartment.

How long should I keep him waiting before bailing him out? this is a problem entirely of his own making.

You're embarrassed and your dp has had his own way again.
You can't change an alcoholic so in some ways I can see AlAnon's point. What's the point in wearing yourself our trying to make him different when it won't work? He won't change unless he has to. He doesn't have to change when you or his parents continually pick up the pieces for him.
If you don't want to live your life this way, I'd change the locks. Having someone like this in your life will drag you down and damage your child.

he has keys... but could you get a yale lock fitted that only you have the key to, in addition to the lcks you already have?

Are you married to this man? I'm not sure about cohabiting couples but can tell you for sure that if you carry on supporting him and you are married with children he can add insult to injury and come after you for maintenance if you eventually split. The longer you are together the worse it will be.

My dad is an alcoholic. I do Al-anon occasionally. I really wish my parents had split when I was small.

Any embarrassment at him overstaying his welcome in a family-owned apartment would be his embarrassment, not yours.

Why should it have had anything to do with you ? ..... you weren't there, but he was.

Whoever's heard of a grown man being such a pathetic baby that he couldn't shift his backside down to the airport to make the necessary alterations required for his return flight - it's totally and utterly ridiculous and he should feel embarrassed. Maybe being made to face up to his own stupidity might just have touched a nerve deep down inside somewhere.

Instead, yet again (by the sounds of it) he's got away with selfish immature behaviour because someone else has picked up the pieces for him at their inconvenience, not his.

If he's fortunate enough not to have to work the very least he should be doing is looking after himself - but he's not even doing that is he ? The current situation isn't as a result of some unforseen circumstance but due to his own laziness. What's more, he should be looking after his own child - if he doesn't work (though I appreciate you might not be happy with that).

What does he contribute to the relationship exactly ? You are being treated like a housekeeper not a partner, and his attitude stinks ..... like that of a spoilt little pampered prince who no-one ever says no to, meaning he never has to face up to the consequences of his behaviour.

OK - well, Attila, you were absolutely right. Mainly because I should simply not have bailed him out, but secondly because it's all gone tits up. Faced with my terms, he went back to his parents, who have bought his ticket and he's now at the airport ready to come home and back to our house.

Right, I'll try to explain, which will involve being more honest than I have been with RL friends.

Have known DP for 15 years. In all that time he has had a drink problem. So I did walk into this with my eyes open. Nevertheless, back in those days he was also exciting and a bit dangerous, different from people I'd known upto then (he's very clever).

About 8 years ago we met up again after a few years without contact. I was single, bit bored with my job and he brought a bit of excitement. It was always a volatile relationship, but also interesting and exciting.

And here's where I went wrong - even though I know he was not a good bet, I didn't make a definitive break and look for better. Instead, we've drifted on together ever since, and then in 2003 I fell pregnant.

He was very clear about the fact that he was not fit to be a father, either emotionally or in practical terms. But I certainly couldn't do anything but carry on with the pregnancy - I can afford it, we have a nice home, we have loving families, and to be honest I really wanted it - babies have been born to a lot worse. I assured DP that I would take the lion's share of responsibility. (Yes, I know, I know!)

So the decision to be together for the long-term was made for us.

I must be fair to DP - he is irresponsible, careless, selfish, spoilt etc. - but he has not been a bad parent in many ways. He's extremely patient, great fun with her, very loving. It's true that fatherhood has not much changed his way of life, but he has adapted very easily to family life.

So, having talked him into a fatherhood that he said he wasn't ready for, and encouraged a doting relationship to develop between the two of them, it just doesn't seem fair of me to take a unilateral decision about walking out.

Currently, DD has a very good life, surrounded by loving family. And I don't have that much to complain about - a good job, good friends, beautiful daughter, and we do sometimes have a laugh as a family. How can I wreck everything when that's the case, just because I resent his behaviour?

He knows he's an alcoholic and says that 'he'd rather die than stop drinking'. His parents refuse to acknowledge the problem, although they know he drinks too much.

I think that's it.

HuwEdwards - thank you very much. Not quite Drop Dead Gorgeous, but I'd probably scrape a whistle from a building site .

Sorry for butting in, but I don't understand the bit about wrecking everything all - will the "good job, good friends and beautiful daughter" (and loving families) no longer be the case if you do leave?

Metamorph, how terribly sad for you. Is your dh truly unable to look after your child? Is he that drunk, or just that effing useless?

Your self-esteem seems to be at rock bottom if you genuinely think this is reasonable way to live. My suspicion is that your choices are:

• make an honest break, now
• make a 'dishonest' break later, when you meet someone who is not such a complete waste of space.

You have taken all the responsibility upon yourself, nothing will change if you do choose to separate, except you won't be responsible for him any longer. Honestly, do you want your dd to grow up like this?

I was at school with the children of the actor Kevin Lloyd , who died from alcohol some years ago now. They had a horrific life, I read in the paper after he died that his son Edward couldn't sleep unless he had instructions on how to phone 999 in case his dad came in pissed. I remember Edward as a gorgeous little baby, I am gutted that he had to live with that reality as a child.

No, he's not generally fall-over drunk, but he's a maintenance drinker. He drinks steadily, and I doubt his alcohol level ever drops to zero.
He does sometimes collect DD from nursery, which is always fine, because late afternoon/early evening is when he is reliable. Conversely, I absolutely can't trust him with mornings, because I can't predict how bad the night before will have been, or what time he'll have gone to bed.
What I mean, Crumpet, is that I don't see why I should wreck his life when I haven't really got much to complain about.
On the other hand, stories like Tribpot's and Murphee's about the children of alcoholics, do worry me enormously.

So to put it another way, he is too drunk to look after his child. He may not be singing 'show me the way to go home' and roaring, but essentially that's what it is.

Honestly - how do you think that you are wrecking his life? He has a choice. If he doesn't want to be a parent (and it seems like he doesn't), that's up to him, but all he seems to be to you is a millstone.

I see what you mean. I don't have any experience of this so don't feel qualified to say much, but is it really your responsiblity to keep his life on an even keel?

but is the message that he is sending to his daughter, that nothing, and certainly not her, is important enough to make him stop drinking not a really powerful and negative one to grow up with?

in a way i can see that you brought this on yourself (i know, i know, you didn't, he's the one who drinks etc etc) but you admit you knew what you were getting into. however it might well be that in staying with him (effectively a single parent to TWO children rather than a single parent to one daughter) might just have been a mistake.

I know exactly what you mean by all this, Metamorph. i was in a relationship for 8 years with a man who sounds very like him in many ways - drink and a lot of coke too. But we did get a lot out of the relaionship. Unfortunately, as time went on it was his demons that drove him to become more and more extreme. he did thngs to prove that i didn't really love hi, I said yes i did, so he'd do something worse with the 'you see! NOW you will dump me, I knew you didn't really love me', and eventually he did some stuff which didn't exactly make me stop loving him, but did make me realise that we couldn't have a relationship, and it could only get worse.

You sound pretty self-sufficient to me - it's not as if you are dependent on him. I'd say 'keep it that way' and keep a brutally homnest tally to yourself about how much he is subtracting from your life with your dd.

You can still tell him you don't want him home for a few days if you want!

Guilt is a terrible reason for staying in a relationship. You will not have wrecked his life if you leave, he'll have managed that on his own. It is his behaviour that is at the root of the problem.
If you stay with him, you are teaching your daughter that her role in life is either as an irresponsible drunk, or unappreciated enabler. That's a good enough reason to show him the door.

it sounds to me like you've adopted him! just like he's another child.

life's too short to give up your chance of having an equal relationship imho.

So very tempting to say change the locks.

Metamorph

It was with a sad sense of inevitability that I read your story because it follows a well worn path trodden. I would argue that he in a sense targeted you primarily because of your low self esteem (him having low self esteem as well). You were no doubt flattered by all his attentions even though you knew he had a drink problem. Perhaps at heart you thought that you as a person could change him for the better and or rescue him from his demons (i.e the drink).

However,as you have learnt to your bitter cost it hasn't worked and things now look pretty bad for you.

I think you need now to consider your daughter; do you really want to bring her up in an atmosphere where her Dad is an alcoholic?. What life and relationship lessons are being imparted here by both of you - I tell you now damaging ones. You by staying are condoning his behaviour and are enabling it to continue.

If you really want to help him you would leave him and let him hit his own rock bottom. Everyone around him though bails him out and therefore he does not have to see the consequences of his actions. You are continuing what his parents (who are in denial of their son's alcoholism) have done; you are in effect another mother to this selfish and irresponsible manchild.

If he dies as a result of his drinking this is not your fault. You cannot and should not take ownership of his drinking by trying to play happy families. It doesn't work.

Its not just you anymore, your daughter needs to be considered as well. If you think that by having two parents around (particularly if one of them is an alcoholic) this will make her happy emotionally you are sadly mistaken. Damaging emotional lessons are being imparted by both of you here; she is learning from you that you have to take care of drunks and enable their behaviour.

How would you feel if say in 20 years time she had an alcoholic for a partner or became an alcoholic herself? Children learn from their parents and some children of alcoholics do go on to develop drink problems of their own.

Your situation is not entirely hopeless but you really need to get away from him completely for all your sakes. You and him are both bad for each other.

Seek counselling for your own self and work on your own self esteem. Its all too clear from your writings that its through the floor and I don't think your self esteem and worth has been ever all that great anyway. "Women who love too much" by Robin Norwood is a good book.

Keep talking to Al-anon.

Sorry to add my voice to the chorus, but...

I'm the child of a 'maintenance' alcoholic. In this case my mother. No, I never had to clear up her vomit or dial 999 - but the damage to my self-esteem is immeasurable. (An alcoholic parent is a significant factor in the profile of a 'typical' self-harmer, incidentally). She also took me in the car with her when drunk, when I was in my teens - and I consider myself extremely lucky that nothing fatal ever happened.

I can't help feeling that you have a very low emotional expectation. And I don't think that you are setting a very good example for your daughter, as a woman.

You have the opportunity and (it sounds like) the financial ability to leave this man and perhaps provide your daughter with an alternative father figure who won't short change her.

She's going to notice his failings more and more as she gets older - when her needs become more complex. Only recently I read a thread on the parenting pages from the mother of a teenage girl, whose behaviour is extremely anti-social, but who obviously has mental health problems. The (semi-absent) father is implicated as the main cause of her non-existent self-worth.

"I don't see why I should wreck his life when I haven't really got much to complain about." I find this phrase particularly chilling. And the fact that you seem to feel that he can't be expected to take responsibility for the pregnancy. He was there. Even if he didn't want to be a father, he did this himself when he shot his load. You didn't make him or talk him into it. He had no legal or moral grounds for making you have an abortion.

Perhaps if everyone stopped supporting him, it might be the making of him.

Sorry - just my two-pennorth.

well said redzuleika.

Thanks.

The Robin Norwood book is excellent. Also 'Facing Codependence' by Mellody, Miller and Miller. Attila really gets your situation - print off her post and keep it somewhere where you can read it often. Best of luck, you can get out of this and you deserve that.

Metamorph, what happened?

Colditz, how sweet of you to think of me.

Well, he came back late on Monday night and positively tiptoed around me for a couple of days.
Then yesterday we had a typical set-to about the man from Rentokil (who turned up halfway through, poor chap.) I issued an ultimatum, which I know is not the right thing to do (I know I should just be doing, not threatening.) Anyway, after 24 hours of being told that I'm going back on my word, behaving unforgiveably etc. etc. etc., he seems to have pulled his finger out. Came home tonight to find the flat tidied and the rubbish put out. He had even done a trial run with the washing machine and been to see the neighbours about their DIY smells.

Don't worry, I know it won't last, and I know it's not the solution. But I'll enjoy it while it lasts.

Think i would divorce him. im a very unforgiving person

I wouldn't stay in that relationship even for the sake of your daughter and even say that having divorced the father of my children. It is much better. I think the compromises you are accepting are not worth it when you're young enough to find someone else who will work hard and be reliable and supportive. He should be helping you with solving problems not waiting for them to be solved by you.

Metamorph

It's a tough one and you probably don't enjoy people saying this but I think I would leave in this instance. It is not good enough to say 'we do sometimes have a laugh as a family'. There should be love, trust, respect EVERYDAY. Your daughter will not suffer if you split, if you are careful about it. However she may suffer from living with someone who says 'Id rather die than stop drinking'.
You and your DD deserve much, much more. xx