STBXH wants to visit the children in the early mornings?

[BelleBoyd]

My H and I are separating. My decision-he's against it and unwilling to go. He says he won't go till we've made all the access decisions.
He is looking for a room in a flatshare or he's been offered a room at his aunts. He won't rent a flat as he says he doesn't have the money. He hasn't an interest in having the children overnight-he's never done nights as in feeding DS or getting up with DD if she wakes or is unwell. He also finds it hard to get up early.
Anyway I am happy for him to see the children- 4 month old DS and 4 year old DD as much as he likes on the weekend to go swimming/park etc. But he wants to come to the house in some of the early weekday mornings to see them both sometime between 5-8am and also to do bedtime. He arrives home usually at bedtime-7.30pm and it always excites DD and I find it harder to get her to bed. If he's late and I get her to bed before he's back it's much smoother plus DS is usually asleep by 7pm.
Seeing the children at these times would be really disruptive to their routine and I think not in their best interests. I do want him to have as much access to them as he likes but not that doesn't benefit them. I'm also worried they would be confused if his visits are in my home apart from the fact it would be difficult for me also.
I've suggested him taking DD to school but he says he can't. Or coming home early to take them out after school but he also says he can't.
He wants me to "prove" that seeing them here and at those times isn't appropriate..he is very controlling.

[NettleTea]

would just say not to agree to anything you dont actually want in writing - just verbally. That way there is no record. You dont want him pulling up an old email of yours to 'prove' you agreed to it

[scallopsrgreat]

Stressed, I think a two-prong attack would be good. Yes start divorce proceedings but also make life uncomfortable for him living at home. As someone suggested immediately stop doing things for him like cooking, cleaning and washing. No cups of tea etc. Announce that you will be going out at certain times and leave the children with him. Even if you just go to a café and sit and read a book.

By the sounds of it he isn't going to make it easy no matter what you do so you need to gird your loins and get on with it whether he is with the programme or not!

[scallopsrgreat]

Sorry Stressed I missed your post at 10:40.

That sounds good. A way forward at this stage anyway! Agree with NettleTea, don't agree to anything in writing at this stage, unless it is very much in your favour!

[SolidGoldBrass]

You have a good chance of getting an occupation order, I would think. Some women have been able to get abusive men forcibly removed from the family home even when the home was in the man's name. The fact that the house is yours and he is not paying towards it will help.
Good luck.

[MsPavlichenko]

I wouldn't let him know your plans in advance. I know that you are hoping that placating him will lead to him being more reasonable, but it rarely, if ever, does with controlling men.

From my own experience, I know how difficult it is, and that you will worry that you will somehow make things worse. By taking control of the situation, and letting him know that you won't be manipulated anymore you will make things so much better for you and your DC. You will be amazed how much easier it will be with him out of your house, and your head. You'll then be able to decide the best way forward re the DC etc without his constant bullying.

[Jux]

Keep your cards very close to your chest, Stressed. Abusive men tend to take badly to their victims becoming independent - even a tiny bit. Don't tell him what you're going to do as he will find some way to retaliate if you do.

Now you know you can get an injunction, do it. Keep a note of everything he does and says, with dates (and times if you can). Keep a paper trail, as they are often useful in Court. With luck you won't need it, but it's worth doing. Keep it in a safe place. Try to remember as much of what has happened in the past as you can and write that down with approximate dates too. Go back as far as you can.

Things are moving dorward for you now, and will gather momentum and become easier as you go along. Have faith in yourself.

[BelleBoyd]

Not sure if anyone's still watching this thread. But I've a bit of a dilemma. My H wants to take DD to his mums ( out of town ) for an overnight stay and bring her back the next day. Should I allow this? What would the SS think of this? I'm just worried that I need to be seen as protecting my children which of course is my first priority.
I'm sure DD would be fine but what if she did have an accident, got lost etc? That could escalate our case to a CPP I imagine straight away. Am I being paranoid?

[GingerBlondecat]

Hell No, dont let him take her without you having a full custody order in place.

Without that he can with hold her until you cave to his demands, and not a thing you can do about it. its not kidnapping because of no order in place, and he is currently equal parent

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

No, I wouldn't let him. What's to stop him from taking her to a dodgy child psychologist while he has her and drumming up some false info, as he's already floated the idea of a child psych eval.

[Butterflyspring]

no he must not take her under any circumstances. I still think you need to report him to the police and then you can get legal aid. You nee to speak to HV, GP and anyone else too to get a paper trail established.

[MsPavlichenko]

Agree with others, say No. It is another opportunity to control and manipulate you via his DC. You are not being paranoid.

[AnyFucker]

Don't back down on anything

If you do, on the smallest thing, he will see it as a chink to exploit

he simply wants to continue to control you, via the children, as that is one of the few pathways he has left

[AnyFucker]

if he decides to play silly buggers and hold onto her the police will unfortunately have their hands tied under present parenting arrangements

you would be very foolish to do this

[Jux]

Keep saying no to him. Do not give an inch.

Are you still cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing etc for him? Please don't.

Once you've reported him this will all be a lot easier.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I think you need to get legal action started fast so that he can't take her away and keep her. At the moment he might just do it anyway.

[BelleBoyd]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any desire to take DD for any amount of time even to spite/control me. Don't think he has it in him..
The overnight trip is his mums idea. She has organised it with him and not consulted me. His mum is visiting the kids on Monday and I'm going to show her the SS assesment.
I've left a message with the SW and will run it by them as well as informing them I've received legal advice and am waiting for the injunction forms.
The latest from H is that he will reluctantly agree to move out if I agree to his conditions-a telephone consultation with a child pschycologist, couples counselling with a commitment from me to try and get back together and his access proposals.
I'm wondering whether to verbally agree to these and then once he's out change the locks and proceed from there. I'm thinking this might be quicker than an occupation order.

[Itsfab]

"Don't think he has it in him."

There are too many threads on here to read which should tell you this is a dangerous thought to have.

[Itsfab]

Maybe he will secretly record you agreeing to all his demands and then you will be stuck.

[AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore]

he will reluctantly agree to move out if I agree to his conditions-a telephone consultation with a child pschycologist, couples counselling with a commitment from me to try and get back together and his access proposals

seriously? the man is a nut job! have you gotten legal advice on this particular tidbit?

The first thing anyone ever says in these situations is "I never thought he'd do that.."

[SolidGoldBrass]

You don't have to agree to any of these things, and he can still be forced to move out.

Certainly, no competent couples counsellor would take you and him on: couples counselling doesn't work when there is abuse and is a really bad idea.

However, it probably would be quicker to say Yes, dear and change the locks. Because, as said upthread, an agreement made under duress is not binding anyway. Mind you, unless you fear physical violence, wouldn't it be satisfying just to say to him 'There is no way we are getting back together, you inadequate little prick. Get out of my house.!'

[AnyFucker]

You are being foolish

You are still trying to "manage" him

He will have the last laugh, because he isn't a decent person and he has no qualms about using dirty behaviour to get what he wants

You are likely to regret not using the power of the law and the experience of professionals to support you

[Jux]

Phone your insurers tomorrow and take him off the insurance so he can't drive your car. Get the occupation order forms even if it means you have to go and pick them up yourself, rather than waiting for the post.

You don't sound like you're taking this very seriously, but you don't have to read too many threads here to realise that controlling twats have no bottom line and the most dangerous time is when the bullied partner is trying to end the relationship.

You can't see him taking dd and not bringing her back (and therefore hanging onto your car too?) and you think we are exaggerating as we don't know you or him in rl. We don't need to because a lot of us have read thread after thread after thread over years and years, and have seen the pattern of behaviour too many times.

Do you really want to take the risk that this man, who has hardly behaved normally so far (bullying you and harrassment? setting unreasonable and impractical access conditions before agreeing to leave your house? forcing you to promise to keep trying when he knows you don't want to?) will behave like a normal, well-balanced person in the future? Why on earth would he?

For heaven's sake, protect yourself. Stop treating him like he's rational and reasonable. He isn't.

[AcrossthePond55]

Sounds like a lovely chap. I'd tell him whatever he wanted to hear to get him out. As long as it's not in writing, there's nothing he can do.

As for his stuff, once he's gone I'd bag it up nicely and drop it off at auntie's house when he's not there.

If you don't, he's just going to keep making up more stuff that has to be decided before he'll leave. Sounds like a form of blackmail to me.

[BelleBoyd]

Just spoken to SW and she says she's happy for him to take DD to his mums for a visit and that he's fine to have visitation in the home if I'm ok with it. She suggested my mum being here when he visits which isn't workable to ask my mum over every time..
I'm surprised she's said this.
She said her only concern is us having arguments in front of DD which effectively means when DD is present I have to go along with whatever he does/says to avoid argument.

[Butterflyspring]

Bloody hell - I think they are totally wrong. Nobody would condone access in your home - especially when his behaviour is so abusive. You going to contact Women's Aid and see a solicitor now?