STBXH wants to visit the children in the early mornings?

[BelleBoyd]

My H and I are separating. My decision-he's against it and unwilling to go. He says he won't go till we've made all the access decisions.
He is looking for a room in a flatshare or he's been offered a room at his aunts. He won't rent a flat as he says he doesn't have the money. He hasn't an interest in having the children overnight-he's never done nights as in feeding DS or getting up with DD if she wakes or is unwell. He also finds it hard to get up early.
Anyway I am happy for him to see the children- 4 month old DS and 4 year old DD as much as he likes on the weekend to go swimming/park etc. But he wants to come to the house in some of the early weekday mornings to see them both sometime between 5-8am and also to do bedtime. He arrives home usually at bedtime-7.30pm and it always excites DD and I find it harder to get her to bed. If he's late and I get her to bed before he's back it's much smoother plus DS is usually asleep by 7pm.
Seeing the children at these times would be really disruptive to their routine and I think not in their best interests. I do want him to have as much access to them as he likes but not that doesn't benefit them. I'm also worried they would be confused if his visits are in my home apart from the fact it would be difficult for me also.
I've suggested him taking DD to school but he says he can't. Or coming home early to take them out after school but he also says he can't.
He wants me to "prove" that seeing them here and at those times isn't appropriate..he is very controlling.

Yes I imagine he's fishing around for someone with "authority" that he can convince to tell me to do what he wants.
Putting his stuff in the garden shed thing would be the same as storing here in the attic which I've thought of. But the point is he will use this as a way of coming here in the evenings and harrass me.
I don't think his aunt would let me come over-his family are very supportive of him not me as is usual I suppose. They wouldn't do anything he didn't want..

I've texted a friend who does family law and will hopefully get some legal advice from her. I can't afford a solicitor and the police haven't been involved so I probably wouldn't be eligible for legal aid. Plus I own my house and I think I've heard if you have any assets such as that you're not eligible. Which is daft-I'm hardly going to sell my home-make me and the kids homeless in order to get him out of it!

There is no way I would trust a 'conference call' with a 'child psychologist' he's found. It will almost certainly be someone he knows pretending to be neutral to force you into accepting some awful arrangement because it's 'best for the children' (probably involving you giving him the car whenever he has the children).

We've been married and him living here for 15 months. And I bought it 3 years ago.

Do you have a friend who you trust who would have space for his stuff?

It would mean that he couldn't come and check up on you all the time and it would be much easier for the friend to say to him that he could only come for things he needed on a Tuesday evening between 6-8 for exmple.

I would be so happy to do this for a friend of mine if it meant she could extricate herself sooner from a STBXH like yours.

I think it's legit-it's the Anna Freud centre. But he's convinced he can talk anyone round to his way of thinking. It would be difficult on the phone to explain the background to all this easily.

Grief yours reminds me of mine. He 'wanted' to move out, and would, if only I would agree to his many varied demands...

Once you back down for an easy life it will only get worse. They really have the minds of children - ah it worked last time, i'll try it again!

Decide on your boundaries and stick to them. Arriving at 5am is unacceptable, even if your DC is usually awake then. It won't last forever, and on the odd time you actually get a lie in you don't want him turning up. It's not up to you to demonstrate that it's a problem - any reasonable person can see it's not OK.

Until he knows where he's living, it's hard to arrange things. But you can decide on some boundaries e.g.

• timings - not before a certain time, not after a certain time.
• if he wants outside those times, that would be overnight contact, for which he would have to have adequate accommodation
• access not to be in your home

This may mean he takes longer to move out. You have to be as withdrawn as possible, get on with your life - you can be separated even living under the same roof. Don't be desperate - if he can see this is what you want, he'll drag his heels even longer!

Quite true that he may have a claim on the house. Also was ditto with my situation. Once he's out - box up his stuff, make the house your own, put his stuff out of the way. If he wants anything, you can drop it round (along with the rest of the box, so it's gradually moving).

And no he can't use your car! Another obvious boundary. it's your car, and your personal space. Ask for the key back, remove him from the insurance. If needs be, sell it and get another which only you have the key for.

He thinks you don't mean it, and will get back together.

If the house was owned by you prior to the marriage and the marriage has been very short then his claim on the value of the property (if any) should be relatively low. Was the property owned by you outright or is it mortgaged?

You do not have to do anything at all he tells you to do. End of. He is not the boss of you.

Once you get him out don't be tempted to let him back in. Doorstep him. I'm serious.

I use to let XP into flat for change overs etc and he behaved very badly - used it as a weapon against me, invaded my space etc. When I keep him on the doorstep and make him have all interaction with the DC out of the house, he behaves nicely towards me. When I do what I instinctively felt was the "right " thing to do - let him access flat with DC, let him come in to put them to bed etc, he felt entitled to try and assert some control and was abusive to me again.

So now he in permanently out in the 'cold' and tends to be a nicer person (to me at least)for it.

How fabulous his family are supportive of him - he can be their problem now.

Don't accommodate him, or store his stuff, or facilitate access to the DC in your house - he can store stuff at his family's places and see the children there too.

If I packed it all up and said for him to get it he wouldn't-he's the sort of person who would let it all be thrown out to make an idiotic point.

Gosh how are you not really tempted by this??? It would make ever such a wonderful point - XP to thick/stupid/stubborn/irresponsible to look after his own stuff. Boo-hoo!

This is another attempt to control you - give him a weeks notice (plenty of time to get his wonderful supportive family behind him) and put the stuff out.

Oh & change the locks asap.

I did the "contact visit in my home" thing where stbx came over and "visited" the DCs. It was like he never left. He used the opportunity to make everyone miserable and was aggressive and pushy and abusive and on many occasions I had to demand he leave early as he was being abusive. And the demands were never ending - he wanted me to organise everything, do the cooking for any meals he was present for, help with discipline, "chat" with him... all the while he was alternating between ignoring and shouting at the children (so basically he wanted it spent pretending like "happy families"). He spent a fair bit of time telling me what I should be doing and asking personal questions.

Trust me - don't do it. I spent half the week stressing over what he had done at the last visit (upsetting both me and the DCs) and the other half of the week stressing over what he might do the next visit. Honestly, it was like he had never left the house - still abusing us both verbally and physically. Still making demands and being unreasonable.

I had to put my foot down and say no. Months later he is STILL angry, demanding to know why he can't see the DCs in my home, and refusing contact with any other arrangement. It has been a real PITA.

Once you separate, you need to make it an actual separation. Anything else muddies the water IME. If he can't take all his stuff now, he can make arrangements to put it in storage at his expense. You are not responsible for it.

Alice: At least he's making enough of a cock of himself to look stupid if he takes you to court for contact. Contact is supposed to be about the DC benefitting from seeing their father, and a man who refuses to see them unless he can invade their mother's home and abuse her will not be seen as having their best interests at heart.

I think basically what he's saying is unless I agree to his "conditions" such as seeing the DCs here he won't go.
I am realising I really need legal advice ASAP.
This is going to be a tough fight. Really hard as he's wearing me down every morning and evening and all weekend. And I'm up most of the night with refluxy baby so knackered.And when he's at work he sends me emails and calls. I have at least stopped taking his calls..

Oh and by the way, the simplest way to deflect any nonsense about child psychologists is to calmly say 'No, I don't think that's at all necessary, so I can't give permission for that I'm afraid. You're quite welcome to take that request to court and let a judge decide, if you really think it's the best way to sort access.'

But - right now, best to see a solicitor to get some guidance on how best to get him out first.

What I would do is go and see as many local solicitors as possible - those that do family law. Most do a free half hour. Use that free time to ask specific questions. For the first thing, it could be 'I bought house on x date, funds came solely from x account, house in my name, we were separated, got married x and he has been resident for x months. Can I legally make him leave, and if so how? will he have a claim to the house?

Ask 3 different solicitors that question and you will be a lot further forward, possibly for no cost.

You know, you could agree to absolutely anything, if he is threatening and harassing. And once he's out, all bets are off. You would simply say to a court (if it ever got that far, which it wouldn't) 'He was threatening me with continued harassment unless I agreed to give him access to the house at inappropriate times. I agreed under duress.' End of chat - you don't legally have to agree to contact inside your own home, under any circumstances!

And that's the reason it would never get to court. Here's what would happen: you agree. He leaves. You make sure that's watertight legally, change locks etc. You tell him you agreed under duress and you now refuse to have him in the house. He goes to a solicitor. Who tells him that there is no case to answer and he simply can't insist on being allowed into any house belonging to someone else for any purpose!

So glad you've made the decision to get a solicitor. It is the only way. Do see as many as you can, take advantage of that free half hour (and some will overrun a bit too). Asks the questions Bruno suggested first and foremost.

If he is hassling you via email, you don't need to keep reading his messages all the time.

You can set up a rule (or whatever it's called in your software) to send all his messages to a certain folder as soon as they are received. That way you don't see them sitting in your inbox. Then you can read them later when you have the time/space/stomach to do so. Or even better, don't read them at all and ask a supportive friend to read them later and tell you if there is anything that you need to know about.

Just an idea

You can agree to him coming at 5am on Tuesdays and Thursdays - he would just come up with some other condition.

Keep repeating to yourself OP that what HE wants doesn't matter.

Focus on what YOU want now, and what your DC NEED.

I know this is a bit pointless now but why on earth did you take him back the first time after you separated? He just thinks now that if he wears you down enough that you'll take him back again, doesn't he. And that's why he's being such a PITA - to grind you down.

The "child psychologist" thing - WTAF is that about?! And you can just say "No, that doesn't work for me" or refuse to participate. And refuse to let the children participate (I still don't see what it's for). He can't force you to do it.

You do need legal advice, pronto. Start proceedings against him as soon as you can because he's not going to actually agree to anything in an amicable fashion.

That's a legitimate question why did I take him back. There are several reasons. The main one was I knew that later on down the line if I didn't I would question myself and ask what if I just had taken him back and we could have been a happy family and DD have a resident father. I knew I'd always have that niggling me. I felt it was worth trying. He was making an effort when we were separated-getting help for his addiction issues etc and seemed stable.
I also found tbh being a single mum hard as it is and wanted to have a sibling for her which I now think was horribly selfish of me.
I knew it was a long shot. I knew this situation was a real possibility.
But having said that at least now I know it would/can never work out.
Also he really wouldn't let up on trying to get back together and I did think at times it would be easier to manage him in a relationship setting. It isn't.

Stressed, I don't think you have to justify your previous decisions to MN. I know there is a statistic that it takes multiple tries for most abuse victims to leave their abusers. The important thing is focusing on moving forward and getting rid of him for good!

Glad you are going to talk to a solicitor. I know it is horrible having him working on grinding you down day and night--you will feel so much better when he is finally out of the house!

Thanks for answering, Stressed, that's good of you. I understand completely about "making sure".

You need to make this separation as different as possible from the last time then, so that he gets the idea that this time it actually is final. So even though some of it might go against your character, and against the grain, go as hardline as you can so that he gets the message.

Good luck with the solicitor.