'Why can't I have a gentle dad like Ben has?'

[LordFocus]

This is what my son said to me earlier today, He's 6, (have name changed Ben obviously!).

I'd love some opinions/advice from you guys please about the situation our family finds itself in.

The story goes like this: Our family comprises me and my DH who have DD who's 9 and DS who is 6.We are a fortunate family who work hard but also have what I consider a lot - put it this way, our problems are generally third world problems so nothing out of the ordinary.

The big trouble is my DH is a pain in the arse. He's a fly in the ointment of what should and could be a really lovely home life for us all. I consider me and the DC's to be quite emotionally healthy people. Me and DD in particular are quite reflective and are always willing to admit when we are wrong etc. DS is sweet, quirky and sensitive.

I have had problems with DH in past. There was a time when I suspected him as an emotional abuser. But I've since researched and read, and thought and thought and (giving him the benefit of the doubt) I have resigned myself to the fact that he could even have aspergers syndrome. This is because he has no empathy with anyone, has no 'soul', he cannot see anything from anyone's point of view but his own, lives in his own (often grumpy or silent) little world, has no communication, gets frustrated dealing with 'emotional' things or feelings. In short it's rather like living with a cardboard cut out sometimes - no sparkle.

At the moment he is stressed at work. I know his work and job well and whereas I can see it might be a bit tedious at the moment he gets paid well, he is liked by his boss, he has the ability to do it and there is a lot of potential there for owning his role/making it his own/getting promoted or headhunted. But he doesn't like it and that's that.He won't see it as a challenge or any of the positives just the negatives and is taking it out on us - especially my son.

Once upon a time he would have taken it out on me but has learnt over the years that I won't put up with it and he has changed his behaviour towards me quite a lot. Then he was AWFUL to my mum for years. My DD is cleverer than him too and so he panders to her as she is too smart and he know its. That leaves my sweet, innocent, defenseless son who he just grumbles at, snaps at, moans at.

DH, for instance, gets visibly frustrated over small things to do with my son. Yesterday he went on a trip to the shops and took the kids while I was cooking tea. This morning I asked DD what he was like during the trip - grumpy or happy? She said he was grumpy. Then, as it transpires she tells me that DH had gone as far as calling DS a 'disgusting little boy' because he dropped a small piece of biscuit in his new car. I was furious to hear this. At this point - while DD was describing the trip - DS pipes up with the question 'why don't I have a dad like Ben's - who is (thinks about it for a moment)..gentle?'

I came straight home from school run and rang up DH telling him I'd had enough of his bullying ways, that people are out there working in sewers and for minimum wage and that he ought to see how lucky he is and stop taking out his mood on us. I told him if he doesn't stop bullying his poor, sweet son I'll take serious action.

DH listens and starts to weep - a thing he always does - and tries to say it was a joke about the disgusting comment. I told him I don't believe him.

Trouble is I don't want to be melodramatic, but I also need to think if I should be with him flogging away at the circle of his behaviour. I sometimes hate my DH, but on good days I can see that he's just a ignorant and often arrogant man that is in need of some support and understanding/a lot of guidance, and that like it or not I've married him and he is the DC's father so get on with it and get over it. It's such a borderline case, but I'm worried I'm desensitised to my situation after so long and that I'm not capable of making a rational decision about our future of happiness or about the effect his behaviour could be having on us.

BTW we have tried Relate a few years back because of his emotional abuse and DH went to counselling and the therepist prescribed anger management techniques. It worked for a bit.. but then back to the start we go again. So what do you think from this recount of the problem? Should I stick with him or would we be better off without him? If it were me i'd have gone, but the kids do love him and he tries to be a good dad most of the time. Is it worth carrying on and taking the rough with the smooth? Thanks...xx

Once upon a time he would have taken it out on me but has learnt over the years that I won't put up with it and he has changed his behaviour towards me quite a lot. Then he was AWFUL to my mum for years. My DD is cleverer than him too and so he panders to her as she is too smart and he know its. That leaves my sweet, innocent, defenseless son who he just grumbles at, snaps at, moans at

Perhaps you should get a pet?

When you read that paragraph in isolation, one could almost start to wonder if OP is rather grateful when some other poor bastard takes the flak instead of her...but is quite willing to stand by and watch while happens so she doesn't have to rock the boat

is this how it is, OP ?

Do you realise OP that you are enabling your "D"H?
He does all that to your kids and your family because you are not standing up to a bully!

How can you say that separating from him can be worst than what your kids are experiencing now!

If you stay in this relationship and your "D"H won't change your kids would start to be very torn between their instinct which is going to be telling them they are mistreated and you are an accomplice and love to you as a parent.

In time they will most likely isolate themselves from both parents and you will stay under one roof with your "D"H and be his only victim.

What did the counseling tell you about hanging on to some imaginary "happy" family life? WHo are you playing up to? Your family? His family? Neighbours? Friends?

You are co-dependant and should seek help yourself if you don't see that what you are doing is wrong on so many levels.

I am at a loss to see how you went through difficult years yourself with H, to the extent you queried the marriage and whether he was EA and how effective anger management was - then observe quite calmly that DD escapes his grumps and fault finding but your DM was the butt of his ill-will for some considerable time and now your 6yo is the target.

You may have seen threads where posters agonise over leaving unhappy relationships. It isn't a requirement to wait for emotional or physical abuse. It's enough to think, this isn't working. When the poster has tried counselling and their partner won't listen or can no more compromise than fly to the moon, it's all right to ask, where do I go from here?

I'm a mother too, I did my fair share of peacemaking but when I thought my cubs needed protection I roared.

Is this some sort of Pass the Parcel of H's prickly personality? Now DS himself has voiced confusion and perhaps puzzlement. DCs are forgiving after all Mummies and Daddies know best. They do what we say. Are you at all worried what he'll learn from this? And please don't kid yourself DD is going to come through childhood unscathed.

Start keeping a diary of any more remarks like that one. Tbh I'd consider a trial separation. Or everything will jog along, damage slowly growing.

Yes AF, here is a pattern of shifting his abuse about as it suits, this will be helping you to minimise it OP.

He has had decades of instruction in the art of narcissism. It might appear to get better but it just shifts around.

Very accurate analysis by AF, as usual.

Although it took me a while to come to this conclusion, my mother (perhaps like you?) was enjoying the drama of not being the one targeted, and being the "good parent" in the family - "look, my precious hubby doesn't pick on ME! I'm the one who can comfort my broken children."

She had support systems available if she wanted to leave, she chose not to use them because she was getting something out of the warped dynamic. I despise and resent her and will be happy not to see her, even when she is on her deathbed.

TRAINERWORK. I'm sorry to hear that you had to endure that.
Hopefully OP can reflect on what you've shared and choose to help this poor little boy.

Sorry I meant TRAINORWALK.

And yes that is so true HESTERTON. It makes me sad to hear that.

I have resigned myself to the fact that he could even have aspergers syndrome

No, ASD is not a synonym for arse. The AS people I know (I work with a few) are actually very gentle & caring of others. Their meltdowns are about their own perceived failings, not other people's.

TBH, I'm a bit tired of ASD being used to describe men who don't take responsibility for being human and having feelings.

I don't know many people with aspergers, but those I do tend to be caring, thoughtful, introspective and actually desperately wanting to connect with people and have relationships but just struggle with putting that into practice. They aren't soulless cardboard cutouts.

I grew up with a father who sounds similar to your DH. I willed my mother to leave him, I would have done anything to be rid of him. It has had a profound effect on every aspect of my life. Thankfully somehow I have managed to create some happiness for myself but I am still left with some very fragile aspects of myself that are a direct result of the criticism and emotional abuse I was subjected to as a child and young person.

Yes, children want and need a happy home, is it likely that they are ever going to get that with a emotionally abusive parent in the mix?

No.

Sorry if this sounds mawkish but I just want to cry reading threads like this.

OP, if you, as an adult struggle(d) to cope with your H's behaviour how on earth do you think two young children are going to deal with it.

Seems like op stopped giving a shit about her children when it seemed she would actually have to do something about it.

Sorry to be so blunt op but my mother was exactly like you, in fact this could have been written by her years ago.

I have zero sympathy for you and I'm sure your children will blame you as much as I did mine.

Not that you'll even read this of course. Your probably back in la la land, pretending all these little digs and criticisms aren't hurting your babies.

Cos you know, it's easier to ignore when it's not targeted at you anymore isn't it?

My dad wasn't like this but he was very angry and had a lot of aggression issues linked to a poor childhood and bad home life growing up. He could be vicious.

Therapy and anger management really worked for him, but he wanted to change and admitted he had a problem. Sounds like your husband isn't fully aware and maybe the only way to make him is through serious measures like a trial separation.

listen to the phone in on narcissism
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01zmmwm

I am pregnant, so a bit more weepy than usual but my eyes filled with tears when I read the comment about what your H said to your poor little boy.
I can still remember a lot of this type of comment word for word 25 years later, and I remember thinking the same thing as your DS.