How do I make / encourage STBXH to be a better dad?

[Overtiredbackagain]

We've been separated for over a year (search Overtiredmum for various other Relationship threads). We have lived apart for 8 months now, absolute due any day.

For those 8 months I have constantly encouraged him to see DC every day, have sleepovers (which he has done 4 times). I have done this despite his drunken rages and abuse.

He got sacked from his job for theft 8 months ago, since then working has been sporadic to say the least and he pays nothing towards DC or joint debts, which I am trying to repay alone.

He has random days where he works, then turns DCs away cos he's "too tired", he's worked so hard blah blah - from one day?! Then he won't work for another couple of weeks.

I have met a lovely guy, the DC adore him, but we have made it clear to all concerned he will not be a replacement for their dad, but he is there for them in more ways than their dad is, if that makes sense.

I work full time, I'm exhausted, I'm skint but more importantly I'm fed up of trying to encourage him to spend "quality" time with DC. He has now in the last two weeks met someone else (which I am pleased for him) but at the same time he is now spending less time with DC as he is away every weekend and will only see kids when convenient for him. DC are picking up on it. My friend collected DC from holiday club yesterday, my two love her and her kids, their dad then collected DC from her after a random days work. My friend text me saying she was shocked by the way he spoke to kids, "come on I'm tired", "no I'm not playing match attack cards tonight". He was short and rude he had them for 20 minutes before he told me to collect them, he was supposed to drop the back a couple of hours later

Sorry, rambling, i feel so sad for DC. I've taken them to holiday club, h doesn't feel well, she's been off for a couple if days. I text their dad to keep him informed, he just said "what, again?!" I haven't responded

Just want to cry but sitting on coach commuting to work.

Sorry "h" is my dd.

Children deserve to have a relationship with their parents provided that's what they want. If the parent doesn't want to have a relationship with their children, there is nothing you can usefully do about it. If the parent is prone to 'drunken rages' your children are better off without him. You can't turn an arsehole into a decent man and if you keep pushing him to see the DCs, all they'll get is a resentful, rude arsehole.

I would do two things. One would be to formalise the financial details via CSA rather than leaving it to the goodwill he clearly does not possess. Then I'd facilitate him having contact with the DCs but not encourage or press it. If he disappears out of their life it will be entirely his loss and not theirs.

I think you have done a sterling job but now is the time to stop pretending, especially as your children are starting to notice. They have an incredible mum, a male figure in their life who cares (your partner) and family friends who not only love and care for them but look out for them too. They don't need a dead beat dad who is shit.

Sort out maintenance officially and I would do everything legally from now on but I would not push for access. Time with someone who is angry and doesn't care is much more damaging than spending no time with them at all. He might not want to be with them but he can not get out of paying for their upbringing.

Good luck.

His relationship with his children is entirely his responsibility, not yours.

As Cogito said, facilitate his relationship with them but leave the rest to him.

I know it's early days in your relationship with your new partner but if your children start to see him as a father figure then why not?

As your DC's get older they will start to pick up on things more and will begin to notice how shit their biological dad is. Personally, I wouldn't be trying too hard to encourage that relationship as it isn't being reciprocated at the other end and your DC's are only going to get hurt by him when he lets them down or rejects them in the future.

I'm sure he loves them, but they are "inconvenient" to him, if I'm honest I've always been the parent.

He says he has no money, yet he had a big chunk of money from sale of our house, winnings from gambling, proceeds of his stealing. He reckons in 8 months it is all gone, hard to believe when he is back living with his parents. Surely if I go CSA and he isn't earning, 15% of nothing = nothing?

He also has the full support of my family, whilst I have none, I was disowned for leaving him.

DC don't even ask to call their dad when they don't see him, and yet when I am home and new partner at work, they nag constantly until he gets home

One of the reasons I left was because I felt like a lone parent and when I tried discussing the fact that I felt we were drifting apart, he told me not to "drift too far"!

I feel for you it must be heartbreaking and frustrating to have to deal with such a waste of space, especially when his actions will mean so much to your kids,
I agree with above posts I would leave it all to his end, if your new man is a better role model then that might be a good thing.
I would downright refuse to 'convince' the father of my kids to spend any time with them.

As I said before, if he loses the respect and love of his own children it's his loss. His relationship with them is entirely in his own hands. It is his responsibility. The world is full of dead-beat Dads and your DCs are unlucky on the one hand to have him but lucky on the other to have your new partner

It's sounds to me as though who he actually lives is himself. Period.

Loves not lives

overtired as a child from that situation. .. (my dad couldn't be assed when he did collect me after nagging from my mum he would either go sit with me at my grandparents or take me to the pub ) I really think you should stop now. you tried your best. what affected me as a child was that not just was my dad not arsed but my mum was trying to force me on him. I cant tell you how much worse I felt. I was 9.

now I will add that now I have a good relationship with my dad. after me saying when I was 13 i didnt want to see him anymore we got back in touch when I was 18. now at 30 we are really close and he is fantastic with my kids.

you should if you can let their relationship play out its natural course. it must be difficult for you I understand that.

good post jellymum

Thanks all, I just feel incredibly down today and am sitting at my desk trying really hard to hold it together.

Thanks all so much for your responses. You all make so much sense. Financially he really needs to contribute, I just scrape through the end of the month. This month alone I had to pay £600 in after school and holiday club fees. I know he has money, but I can't prove it. He can certainly afford to drink, smoke and go for weekends away with new lady. He buys DS stupid skylander toys (whilst forgetting to buy something for DD, which is his way of punishing her if she choses to stay with me instead of spending time with him). Yet, he never asks if the DC need anything practical - I pay for everything

Jellymum1 I grew up with my parents constantly splitting up and getting back together, it was awful, my mum would ignore me for days when I said I could decide when she asked me who I would pick to live with ??? and that was the one thing I didn't want to put the DC through, which was a massive part of why I left ex. I want to teach my DC that if something isn't right and you are unhappy, then don't be afraid to change it, certainly don't put up with the situation, just because someone tells you to (ie. my mum!!) Maybe my opinion on that is wrong?

DD (5) has reached a stage where she doesn't want to go off to dads house, she just wants to stay with me. DS (nearly 9) adores his dad, and up until a few weeks ago would have jumped through hoops to spend time with his dad, and he certainly kept my new partner at an arms length, but certainly over the last two weeks, he doesn't talk about his dad, and he spends more time doing stuff with new partner that he hasn't before, asking for help with homework etc, playing scrabble, playstation etc.

Next week DC, me and new partner are heading to LEGOLAND for the weekend for a birthday treat. We can ill-afford it, but its something I wanted to do for the DC. To sit and watch the kids on the computer looking at the interactive map with new partner, all excited and happy, I know I've done the right thing, it just breaks my heart.

I think yesterday was a big turning point for me, with my friend. To know something yourself is one thing, but when someone else picks up on it, as hard as it is, it sort of gives clarity? Does that make sense.

So my next step? I guess to back off ex, I'll let him do the running, and as always I'll be here for DC if and when he lets them down. Financially? I guess wait until he gets permanent work? Apparently a friend of his has offered him a 12 month contract, so wait til then?

Get the CSA on his case now because things take time and there's the matter of back-payments that are probably owing. Even if he can only pay £5/week it's better to get the claim in sooner rather than later.

I feel so low today, spent most of the day sitting at my desk, hiding and crying - how pathetic?!! I try so hard to keep my home / work life separate, but my bosses are great and let me leave early /go in late etc if I have to, and then I work from home to make the time up. Although I do wonder sometimes if they just feel sorry for me.

Just rang holiday club, DD is complaining of tummy ache but is still off doing the activities, poor thing. DS is having a ball! I wouldn't be surprised if ex calls later to say he can't pick them up from friends, she said yesterday she got the distinct impression that was what would happen today as he told her he would be later blah blah blah - especially since I told him to offer her some money for helping out. I only got home 20 minutes after him yesterday, so if he's later, I guess I have my answer.

I wish I could talk to my dad

Sadly we can't make people be the parents we want them to be.

Try to cheer up overtired, it sounds to me like you are doing a bloody marvellous job for your kids and your new fella means they do at least have a positive male role model in their lives.

What might help you is a bit of a mindset change. At the moment you have got a 'square peg round hole' situation where what you want to happen and what's actually happening are so far apart that nothing you can do brings them any closer together. You think that if you are reasonable, he will be respond in kind when all the evidence is that he is thoroughly unreasonable. I believe you think you've failed when, in reality, you're asking the impossible. That's a lot of stress and frustration and if you're sat at your desk crying, it's understandable

So I would suggest you assume that you are going to get no support at all from your ex. No money, no cooperation and no reliability and plan your life accordingly. Work with reality rather than fantasy and you're going to be a lot less disappointed and you may find you feel considerably calmer. He will lose out and the DCs will not have a relationship you want with their Dad but that's just life.

I have a voucher for free kid when adult paying - or other way around - if any use to you.

There are ways of finding out if someone is hiding money. I suggest you get some advice ASAP.

I've spent the last 3 months since separating ftom ny stbxh trying to get him to see our 3 DC and prioritise them. Despite him being an abusive arse during our marriage and still treating me to it now, I've bent over backwards to facilitate visiting our DC. He's done bugger all and quite frankly I'm done trying. If he loses contact it will be his fault, the same goes fir your stbxh. Your DC obviously have a fab mum who's doing her very best for them, and a lovely new man who actually cares about them. I would leave your stbxh to his own devices, if he decides to slip out if their lives, as sad as that is, it's his choice, his loss and he'll be one living with that shitty decision while your conscience should be clear.

Thank you Itsfab, I managed to get a really good deal, two days in the park, one night in Marriott Windsor Heathrow with breakfast for just under £200, took me a while to save for! I'll take pack lunch both days, loads of bottles of water and a cheap dinner in the hotel. DD has loads of money from her birthday earlier this month and I'll give some to DS as an early birthday present as his will be a couple of weeks after we go.

I consulted a solicitor a month or so ago when ex was threatening to get custody of DC and make me pay him maintenance (!!!). He advised me to go CSA, also get a consent order sorted, but I honestly don't have the money to do one.

Thanks Curt, I think I'm just having a really low day, which to be honest has taken me back abit, must be hormonal

I think my friend picking up on his behaviour yesterday has been instrumental to my feelings today and the realisation that I have done the right thing, I don't feel guilt for that, I just feel sad that being a dad to two beautiful, funny, thoughtful children just isn't enough for him.

over I totally get it, I had a lousy, weepy weekend where stbxh spent about 2 hours in town with me and our DC then buggered off to buy wine and when DD1 (3yo) cried for him, he blew her a kiss and sauntered off. It made my blood boil that our babies (DD1 is 3 and we have 18mo twins DS and DD2) and they seem to mean little more than an inconvenience to his social life/sleep pattern/downtime. I literally just give in trying to make him step up. If they can't see what they're losing, that's their look out.

Sorry it's been a crap, hormonal couple of days, I can sympathise, I just had 3 months of it. and for us good mums x

Some parents are all talk and no action some are all too eager to walk away when given the slightest opportunity and some people will live to regret their choices when older .

Some people love money more than their children and some will always look to blame others for the fact that their children are not in their lives .

You have to do what is best and safest for the children. You already know what that is.

BTW Most deadbeat parents threaten to go for custody. I would love to see what happened should the other parent say here you are, except children are not pawns but you get the point I am making I am sure.

"I honestly don't have the money to do one."

How much does it cost and how long would it take you to save up/beg/steal/borrow the cash? If you do nothing else, make sure he pays.

Cognito My solicitor said it could cost up to £1k

Yes I have a couple of pensions, but they are worth nothing.

I think it is time to look into CSA I guess, it was just a route I was hoping not to go down. Ideally, it was never about him paying X amount per month, it was about him having money to do stuff with the kids when he had them, and that doesn't happen. The CSA route won't help me get half the money for a joint bank loan though, or will it? The total for that is £200 a month (so £100 each in theory) and there's still nearly 3 years left on it

As someone up-post rightly said, I think I imagined (or certainly hoped for the DC) that he would always put them first, spending quality time with them, as much as I would hate it - alternate weekends, shared custody and all that - but he won't even sign a form from the after-school club to say DD could have her face painted!

I doubt it would cost £1000 to go to the CSA or the new one, the Child Maintenance Service. You don't need a consent order if you decide that he's only going to play a minimal role in future.