Love my grown DSS to bits but REALLY disagree with this attitude

[stickybandit]

In a nutshell, 2 years ago he was on/off with a girl a couple of years younger. He was 20 at the time and was (still is) working away.

She got pregnant. He bought teddies and got excited. Then she finished with him and got with someone else. Refused to do a DNA test and cut all contact. DSS has never seen baby.

Fast-forward 2 years. Her relationship has ended. Two days later, she contacted DSS and told him she's not after money but if he wants to start seeing baby, she would be happy to facilitate it.

His response was to block her number and say 'she wants me back and she's trying to ruin my relationship. I don't want to know'. I'm very uneasy with this, I've expressed how I feel (he should ask for DNA test now) but I can't go up against his mum who completely agrees with him. (He's now in a serious relationship with a different woman and they've just moved in together. His girlfriend also wants him to have nothing to do with the baby.)

I'm just wondering if I'm really on my own with this? I really HATE the 'she should have been on the pill anyway' attitude of people. It's a dual responsibility, even if it's inconvenient.

The sad reality is that,regardless of what the DNA test or courts say, your DSS will never be able to have a relationship with this child unless his mother cooperates. Given her track record to date I can understand your DSS being extremely wary of getting hurt a second time. Rather than giving him a piece of your mind why not give him some space and time to consider his options. He doesn't have to jump just cause his ex fancies him playing dsddy this week. If it's a genuine offer it'll keep a bit longer.

DP and I had words again last night. He said he'd have a word with DSS. I told him not to bother on my behalf - I don't want to pull anyone's strings but I'm entitled to my opinion. I've told him I don't respect DSSs decision but it's not my call.

I'm hoping that DSS comes around when it's all had time to sink in and asks for a DNA test. Otherwise, this will be always hanging in the air. One way or another, he should be bothered enough for the child's sake to find out if he's the father instead of burying his head. Until he takes that step, there's nothing anyone can do.

I'm bothered by attitude and lack of empathy from DP. I told him I thought his attitude towards women was terrible. He pretty much said it's just towards her because she's a trollop. I said I can't discuss it anymore.

Well the mother can still go for child support and if she does, will he want to see the child?

This is one example of why teenagers shouldn't be having children, she took her baby away because she had a new fellow, now two years later wants him to get involved again just because her relationship failed? wow really says everything about the mother.

Your dss has not bonded with the baby, instead all he properly feels is resentment but it is his choice if he wants to see the child or not.

Some of the judgements on this thread are awful :(

I'm sorry that's DP's attitude OP, I couldn't be with a man like that, what does he think his son is if he thinks so lowly of the woman who has actually bothered to raise what is very likely to be his grandchild?

Offred that woman took his grandchild away because she had an new boyfriend and she's only bothered to get in touch now because she split up with that guy so that little girl deserves no sympathy.

I think YABabitU.

I'm not so sure it is wise for him to get involved now. I completely disagree with the "she should have been on the pill" attitude - YANBU there. But that should have kicked in two years ago when the woman cut him off - he showed his colours then, when he didn't attempt to get access or to support his child.

And to be honest a woman who removes a child from his/her father for two years while she pursues another relationship then seems to encourage the father when she doesn't have another man in her life does not sound like someone who is likely to be trying to form a strong child/father bond. Going along with it just to have her withdraw access when she finds a new boyfriend (which sounds fairly likely) doesn't necessarily sound in the best interests of the child. That child may be better off with less inconsistency, given the somewhat irresponsible nature of both parents.

Why are so many of you focusing on the child's mother? As if that somehow justifies the lad's total disinterest in what may well turn out to be his own child.

pictish I think people are focusing on the child's mother because of her initial behaviour, which left a lot to be desired. I fully expected to read this thread and start shouting about the DSS's behaviour but having read the OP my feelings are more complicated. I think the child's mother behaved very poorly, that she lacks sound judgement about how to conduct relationships without confusing her child and that DSS has some right to be suspicious about her motives and timing. I don't think he covered himself in glory back at the start but he was very young and probably felt unable to force himself into the child's life in the clear face of objections from the mother. She was the one who cut contact and moved on.

Often these situations follow a pitiful script of sorts but for all sorts of reasons I can understand DSS's reluctance to re-engage. I think it is quite likely that as soon as a replacement boyfriend comes along that she would cut DSS out of the picture, just as he would be forming a relationship with the child (who may or may not be his).

I feel very sorry for the child at the centre of this :(

I agree MyLatest. Additionally, we don't know what was said privately between the OP's DSS and the child's mother. There's probably a whole load of stuff we nothing about adding to his feelings and actions then and currently.

So men are allowed to make bad decisions when they are very young but women are not? We don't actually know how wrong what the mother of the child did was but we do know about the dss and still there's a fuck load of blaming the woman and the one who has bothered to raise the child...

Offred I am usually the first person to jump up and rant about the uselessness of certain men when it comes to their responsibilities as fathers but this situation is more complex. We are all allowed to make mistakes regardless of gender. Unfortunately in this case the mother closed the door on DSS and was therefore literally left holding the baby. So yes we can make mistakes but we live with the consequences.

To turn around after two years and say oh you can see the baby now that it suits me ( subtext: until it no longer suits me ) - in DSS' s shoes I would be cautious about turning my life upside down on an ex's whim. This might not be what happens in a perfect world but in the real world I can understand his caution. I don't think this is about woman blaming, it's about acknowledging that some decisions are hard to undo.

I should add that it was unfortunate that the ex did not allow a paternity test although no doubt she had her reasons. There is every chance that this is not DSS' s child.

The dss made no effort to get a DNA test which is relatively simple (and even more so a few years ago) or see his child. We don't know what was going on with his ex and her bf, all kinds of things could have been going on, the new bf could have been abusive for all we know. Even if it was simply that she didn't want him involved she's only responsible for that bad decision, she's not responsible for his bad decision not to be involved or his continuing bad decision to stay uninvolved now she is relenting.

And I don't understand the 'there's every chance it isn't his'. It makes more sense that she knows the child is his if she refused a DNA test while she was trying to stop him seeing it.

I mean can you imagine in relation to your children just accepting being told you couldn't see your baby, happily going off to live your life and then being given an opportunity to get involved but being resistant and blamey?

The correct thing would have been to have tried to agree some contact, if not possible to have gone to court, if for some reason not possible to have insisted on at least paying some money for the child and keeping on asking for contact. She said "I don't want you involved" and he went "OK" and it's easy to see why when his dad has such a terrible attitude.

But I don't expect someone to react in the same way as an ordinary parent if they have been denied the opportunity to create a bond with the child, particularly if they have been given a clear signal that the baby may not be theirs. And having had some experience of family court, I know it is not as simple as popping along to the local magistrate and 'agreeing some contact'. It would be a very daunting prospect for an 18 year old (and possibly a very very expensive one, given the mother's hostility).

I would be very wary of advising this young man to get involved, even though morally it is the right thing to do. the mother may well have grown up, changed, become a good parent and be genuine about letting the father try to create a relationship with the child...but it doesn't seem overwhelmingly likely.

Offred the mother refused a DNA test and cut contact. I think you are trying to turn this into a gender issue when it's not that clear cut. He wanted to see his child and was refused contact because the mother had a new partner. Should he have forced himself into her life? Then MN would be saying he was an abusive bully littering the scene with red flags.

She may have refused the DNA test because she wanted to keep him away - if so she made her feelings clear at the time and he can't be forced to turn his life upside down now because she changed her mind (unless of course she decides to pursue him for maintenance - which would be within her rights if he is the father). Equally she may have refused the DNA test because she knows the baby ISN'T his. It was an on-off relationship according to the OP. She split with DSS and moved on to a new relationship. For all we know the new man might have been the biological father.

I agree with Balia. There is the moral issue and then there is the pragmatic reality of life. In DSS's shoes I would be afraid that I would be offered contact, then dismissed again as soon as another prospective partner came along. DSS is happy, settled and in a new relationship. Of course he is thinking about maintaining the status quo. He knows the mother; we don't.

It's all very sad and unsatisfactory but no one is saying the blame is all on one side or the other. It's just a sad situation and I think his wariness is understandable.

You don't know why she refused contact or even if she did to be fair. Even if she did there is no excuse for him not trying to see his child. Building a relationship with his baby did not need to involve him having a relationship with her. I have experience of family court too no it isn't easy but being a decent person and recognising you have a responsibility to your offspring is not at all contingent on you having spent time with them. I think people who walk away so easily, young or not and don't forget he is older now and still making the same choice and his dad had the same attitude to it, are not decent people IMO. It's a crappy thing to do as is preventing a relationship with the other parent for no good reason.

They both behaved badly if she tried to alienate him without a reason and he just gave up but she's relenting just now and he's still being a shit so I feel more sympathetic to her tbh. I don't give a shit if him being involved might be difficult for him now, diddums! Sure it was difficult for her to offer him contact....

Well, we do know that she refused contact because OP said so - unless you think that when she said the mother 'cut all contact' she may have meant 'the mother refused to talk to DSS but offered him reasonable contact with the baby'. Recognising you have a responsibility to your offspring may not be contingent on having spent time with them, but knowing it is actually your offspring is pretty important, surely?

He's not being a shit - he is being exactly what she wanted him to be for the last two years. You can't expect people who have been treated like disposable sperm donors for 2 years to suddenly turn into fathers.

No you can expect people who may be a parent to make an effort to establish whether they are or not and make an effort. The worst case behaviour of hers is that she deliberately stood in the way of his contact but he has done nothing about that when he could have done a lot of things.

And yes I think you can expect men who have been treated like sperm donors to behave like fathers from the start and in an ongoing way because parenthood is not contingent on your relationship with the other parent.

Offred I feel like we are reading two different OPs based on what you are saying.

She refused DNA test, cut all contact and went off with someone else? And he's the baddy here?

Poor Dss. He's in for years of shit if he is the father.

I can see your point but this woman kept the baby from him for 2 years tge poor guy is hurt the better thing for him to do is arrange a dna test and then arrange properly to see the baby but he has to decideits such a shame parents do this to children