What's a normal healthy relationship with your family meant to be like?

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Bit of a philosophical question I know! But me and my brother are both worried that we don't have very good role models as parents and want to be sure we get the right balance between being there for our children and not over-involved in a bad way...

There have been a lot of posts recently about difficult mother/daughter relationships and also the role our siblings play in our lives - and how the family (I mean the one we grew up in)always manages to push the buttons that make us feel like we did as kids (ie bad). Anyone out there with "normal" families find our connections/influence from our mums (and dads) unusual?

I'm interested to know because I read somewhere that most mothers let their children cut free in a healthy way during their adolescence whereas in dysfunctional familes the attachment carries on into adulthood (it's as if you are not allowed to be independent, being controlled in subtle ways by your parents and siblings carries on, family dynamics continue to be restricting and stressful).

I want to be sure I "let go" of my boys at the right time (if that's what I'm meant to do) - or do mums always wield huge amounts of power and influence over their children?

Please don't anyone say "what's normal?" - I know the breakfast cereal and bisto advert familes don't really exist but there is a big difference between symbiotic/co-dependent/dysfunctional familes like mine (alcoholic father who died, physically and verbally abusive step-father, inconsistent care from mother, denial from everyone about what was really going on and a lot of scapegoating, backstabbing and blaming going on in the present day)and a family who functions in a reasonably loving, caring, supportive and honest way.

lol, i'm the wrong person to sak about healthy family relationships..... my moms a cotrolling, abusive lunatic and dp's family aren't much better.

personally i don't think theres any point overthinking it... the fact that you care enough to ask questions like this is a good sign your very unlikely to go down your parents road.

i just take each day as it comes and hope that i'm doing the best i can for my kids.... i don't think there is such a thing as a 'normal relationship', every family has it's own issues.... some are bigger than others but we all have them. it has alot more too do witht he individual familiy members'personalities than anything else and those can't be changed so best to just deal with issues as best you can as they arise than to try and plan ahead.

"...a normal healthy relationship with your family..." Yup - I'm reading the words, but they're making absolutely no sense to me.

And now I think about it, none of my friends have 'ideal' (or even semi-ideal) relationships with their parents either (there's probably some point there about normalising one's own situation by surrounding oneself with people of a similar experience).

Someone has said to me the same thing that PinkTulips has said: if you're thinking about it, then you're unlikely to make the same mistakes as your parents - although obviously there's a host of other mistakes to be made.

I think that respect is critical. If you retain respect for your family as individuals (whether it's your partner or your toddler) then you're less likely to ride roughshod over their emotional / physical needs. (A policy which I don't think is incompatible with getting them to do unpopular things that are beneficial for them - like go to the dentist. And I'm including my husband in that as well as my child... )

"If you give them their wings they will always fly back to you". I think Tulips is right - the fact you care enough to think about this shows that you are unlikely to recreate the problems you and your brother had with your parents.
Although your question about Mums wielding power and influence made me think. Influence is one thing - I think any family member you love and respect will always have influence over you. But to me, someone saying they had power over their adolescent or adult children would seem not quite healthy?

Drusilla, I guess that's a bit like the "if you love someone let them go. If they're yours they'll come back, if they don't they never were" - that's more about adult to adult relationships though I suppose, but similar nonetheless.

I agree with the others about your thinking about this Pages - you are aware of what mistakes your parents made, and that's a massive step in your not making the same mistakes yourself.

I remember very very clearly when I left home to go to university, and my parents dropped me off, my mum said that she had tried to bring us up to be independent, and to be able to look after ourselves, so she knew I'd be ok. I was. I'm going to try and keep that as my mantra when my children are in their teens. You have to let them make their own mistakes sometimes, and to grow into their own skins. Unfortunately, I haven't got the first idea how you do that, as DS is only 2, but that's my aim. It must be a balancing act, between influencing in a positive and constructive way and controlling in a negative and destructive way.

Sorry, reading that back, it sounds like a load of gumph out of a sociology text book!!!

my parents weren't ideal, but neither were they too awful. i went through the normal teenage rebellion, then gradually settled down to a reasonable relationship. i could never share a house with them, but me & my mum can sit & chat like equal adults & i am happy to let them look after dd (although physically, they're getting a little old).
i think if you rmember that this is a person, and try to treat them with the same respect as you would a work colleague etc, 9depending on their age) then they will appreciate it. if at the age of 20, you're still checking whether they've been to the toilet, you may have some control issues!

It is a really interesting question you ask. I was given my independence in my early teens - very much so. I didn't go on a "family holiday" after the age of 11 but was allowed to go away with friends (and their families). I was allowed from 15 to go out on weekends and to try to be home at mid-night but also told that if I couldn't make it that late, just to call to say I was running behind. I was actually usually home by 11 as there wasn't much to do. Never rebelled, never needed to.

However, my parents then had another child late in my teens. While I was away at college and living apart from them almost as soon as this happened, I found that I was subject to new rules and far less actual freedom when visiting them. They still now, interfere a lot more, they tell me what to do. I don't pay attention of course and sometimes suggest they back off. But because their youngest is now a teen who they've been coaching for life - its like a habit they can't get out of and they do it to me, too. Its sometimes like a noose around my neck and defniitely a contrast to what I was led to believe things would be like...Its just something I've grown to accept, even if I do grumble about it occasionally.

But, these are very specific circs. The parents have said often that they did things " wrong" with me, the first time round and were going to get it right the second time round - in terms of freedom, school choices, everything... I am fortunate enough to be thick-skinned and ignore that kind of comment.

Not gumph at all, very interesting and lol pinktulips re your description of your mum!!!

Of course every family does have its issues, but I know there are familes that operate on a much healthier level than mine did/does. I think you are right about respect being a key feature.

We all think we can do a much better job than our parents did, but few of us are ever good enough for our offspring's high standards! All these comments about your parents will be repeated in twenty years or so - only it will be your own children talking about you

Absolutely 80'smum! All you can do is your best and keep your kids best interests at heart. Its an interestung theme because my husband and I discussed these sorts of issues before we had our little girl.

My biggest concern has always been about how to give a child self esteem. I think that self esteem is hugely influenced by your parents and is something I seem to be lacking in. Thats one of my parents mistakes that I am trying to avoid (I'm not sure how but I am going to try) but I am bound to make others.

I had a terrible relationship with my father. He wouldnt let go and was very old fashioned about things. For example, I was a girl and why did I need to go to University afterall all I was going to do was get married and have kids! Well if thats all I was going to do I would have been living at home well into my 30's after the way my life turned out. I did go to university by the way but he didnt make it easy. Anyway, we have a good relationship now but it took time and forgiveness. Everyone has parents issues and our kids will certainly be blaming us for doing something wrong in a few years time.

Some things my parents did that I will always be grateful for:

• told me I could do anything I put my mind to, if I worked hard enough.

• expected that I would succeed - it was taken as read, but not demanded.

• were proud of things I did (pictures in the kitchen, came to all the school plays, did reading with me - BUT never nagged about homework - just expected I would do it.)

• were clear about what was expected of me (not to smoke, leave school at 16 (!) not wear miniskirts etc.

• told me (only a few years ago, when I asked)that their approach was to push me as far as I was capable of whilst they were responsible for me (up to end of full time education) then it was up to me, and they would always support me in any way they could.

• expected me to leave home at 18 for uni and not come back permanently after that (obviously did in hols) but that there would always be a bed and a meal for me (if that makes sense)

• even now, support me in any way they can (not financially) and always listen and tell me I will do the right thing, make the right decisions etc.

They were quite strict parents about some things and didn't believe in letting children run the show, but I am so grateful for them, because I have amazing self-esteem, and am completely sure that I am going to succeed pretty much everything (and when things go wrong, I will be able to sort them out in some way and be happy again)

I know there are no perfect parents 80smum, but I am not talking about minor stuff - I'm talking about the fact that I still have nightmares to this day because my mum left me and my brothers at home on our own in the evening at the age of 5, 6 and 7, and stood by and let my stepdad punch me in the mouth and split my lip open. The dynamics in my family are still completely off the wall, they involve a lot of ganging up, protecting of my mum and ostracising of anyone who doesn't tow the family "party line".

I suppose what has prompted the question is what has happened recently, which I have mentioned on another thread and I apologise for repeating this but I seriously want to know how your parents/normal parents would behave in this situation. It is a recent example of the type of thing that has been happening all my life:

My mum told me a year ago that my SIL found it hard to be around my son who has special needs. I was upset but didn't speak to my younger brother and his wife about it a)because I wasn't sure my mum was meant to have told me iyswim (although she didn't ask me not to say anything) b) because my brother and SIL are not approachable people - as you will see in a minute and c) because I know what my family are like, and I knew it would somehow end up with me being blamed.

However,recently, for various reasons (my brother and SIL trying to organise a family day out leaving me and my kids out basically) I ended up telling my brother what my mum said - I wanted him to know I was hurting and that my DS should be treated equally - my brother slammed the phone down on me, my SIL sent me a really abusive email telling me I was a poisonous liar and she never wanted to see me again and my mum also denied having said anything of the sort and also called me a liar. My mum has since told other members of the family that I have done a good job of splitting the family up. My older brother has stuck by me because he knows I am not a liar but my mum has been trying in various ways to draw him back in so that I am left out in the cold on my own - this happened a lot when I was younger.

How would a normal family have dealt with this issue or one like it? Am I just being unrealistic to think that families exist where people can talk openly about their feelings?

Not at all Floatingonthemed, your posts are helpful. It's interesting that your mum's illness didn't impact on the family for life. Maybe as PinkTulips said it is more about individual family members' personalities than the family history. My mum unfortunately is extremely manipulative, and we don't talk openly - at least not about anything that might reflect badly on my mum. I try, because I'm tired of pretending things are ok when they are not, but no-one else wants to. So I am the troublemaker.

The weird thing is that if someone had asked me three months ago if I had a good relationship with my mum I would have said similar things to you and said we were close. But when I got called a liar something snapped and I realised I couldn't keep up the pretence any longer or keep accepting the blame/bad feelings for everyone else. I have personally found there is a price to pay for not expressing anger/other emotions - usually someone in the family carries all the bad feelings for everyone else (and in my family it was usually me). Your sister's bf sounds remarkably emotionally literate.

pages you are brave.

i think that non-dysfunctional people and families exist. but I also believe that many many adults are in deep denial about the often poisonous dynamics that exist in their families.

to my mind it is a lot about 'owning' stuff: taking responsibility for what is about you. we project massively onto our children, and nothing is going to stop that happening. but if you can strive to 'own' it then i think you're on the right track.

i.e. i want my child to be bright and clever becuase i always felt thick and stupid. i have difficulty with friendships and i realise that that is impacting my son's ability to make friends etc etc.

i hope this makes sense.

i think your original post shows remarkable self-honesty and i congratulate you, really genuinely, for being on the journey you seem to be on. it is hard.

Sophable, thank you so much for your kind words. I am so full of self-doubt at times it really helps to hear this.

We have just moved to Oz to be nearer DH's family.

There is mum & dad, dh & his ds (all manor of aunts & uncles, but I don't think your op means these) They all have good relationship/dynamic. Even tho we haven't been here that long they are not full on. We see them for dinner once a week and they ferry me around to playgroups etc (i don't drive) and will often have lunch with me & dd. They don't feel the need to call every 5 mins and are not in the least controlling.

I would say that dh comes from "a family who functions in a reasonably loving, caring, supportive and honest way".

On the other hand, I have let go of my mother as her will to control everyone & everything is disfunctional in itself.

Hi Pages,
As you know I have my own serious mother problems and, like you, I am scared of making the same mistakes she did with my own children.

Firstly, as someone else said, its unlikely to happen because we are already questioning their actions. Its usually when people just accept everything their parents did, that abusive cycles continue to the next generation.

Ive just finished reading a lovely book called Letting Go as Children Growby Deborah Jackson. I bought it from Amazon (its the same lady who wroteThe No cry sleep solution). There is a section about teenagers at the back, but it covers every age, and (I believe) has most of the answers to the questions you are asking. Shes into attachment parenting (has 4 kids) but shows how to give kids their own space. Anyway, at the very least, its a really interesting read, and written very intelligently IMO.

Sandcastles, do you feel completely liberated? Or still have thoughts about your mum?

Thanks Sakura, that sounds good - what's attachment parenting?

floating....we are all on that 'mentally ill' continuum you know....

sounds like you are totally owning your stuff btw.

I completely agree with RZ's point about respect. I really do.

And no, 80smum, I really don't think I'll put my kids through some of the stuff my parents put my sister and me through (not on the Pages scale, but not exactly equipping either of us with the self-respect and self-esteem one would hope to give one's kids). I worry about this a lot; but I've decided that whatever I do f8ck up - and of course I will - it won't be on their scale.

Can I just ask those of you with manipulative/controlling/emotionally useless parents etc, do you have any insight as to why your parents are/were like this?

Did they have a similar upbringing, did their OH have an influence on their behaviour or could it be an inability to deal with the pressures of family life?

I too had a controlling father but he died years before I had my own children, and to some extent as I've learnt more about myself and also his own upbringing, I find I am more able to understand how and why he ended being the way he was. And by that I don't mean I can forgive or forget, I just try not to be like him but without going to the opposite end.

Sadly, I am coming to the realisation that my dh is turning into his mother and I don't like it AT ALL. And yet for so long he tried not to be like her.

they invariably had even more manipulative/controlling/emotionally useless parents.

and before any one chips in that granny is lovely and mum's a bitch, being a grandmother is a completely different thing to being a mother.

MI, I think that even without your obvious awareness and vigilance, there is an evolution of sorts. however unlikely it seems I think it's usual that our parents did better than their parents did. Call me an optimist!