What's a normal healthy relationship with your family meant to be like?

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Bit of a philosophical question I know! But me and my brother are both worried that we don't have very good role models as parents and want to be sure we get the right balance between being there for our children and not over-involved in a bad way...

There have been a lot of posts recently about difficult mother/daughter relationships and also the role our siblings play in our lives - and how the family (I mean the one we grew up in)always manages to push the buttons that make us feel like we did as kids (ie bad). Anyone out there with "normal" families find our connections/influence from our mums (and dads) unusual?

I'm interested to know because I read somewhere that most mothers let their children cut free in a healthy way during their adolescence whereas in dysfunctional familes the attachment carries on into adulthood (it's as if you are not allowed to be independent, being controlled in subtle ways by your parents and siblings carries on, family dynamics continue to be restricting and stressful).

I want to be sure I "let go" of my boys at the right time (if that's what I'm meant to do) - or do mums always wield huge amounts of power and influence over their children?

Please don't anyone say "what's normal?" - I know the breakfast cereal and bisto advert familes don't really exist but there is a big difference between symbiotic/co-dependent/dysfunctional familes like mine (alcoholic father who died, physically and verbally abusive step-father, inconsistent care from mother, denial from everyone about what was really going on and a lot of scapegoating, backstabbing and blaming going on in the present day)and a family who functions in a reasonably loving, caring, supportive and honest way.

Hi, will catch up with this thread properly when I have more time but just wanted to tell you my epiphany while I remembered it and that is that me and DH were clapping and cheering DS2 for taking his first steps and saying "duck" and I noticed DS1 looking all forlorn (as you know he has SN, is 4 and has no speech) and I went over to give him a cuddle and tell him he was a clever boy too. I said to DH that we must be careful when praising DS2 not to make DS1 feel inadequate and it hit me like a steam train, all of a sudden:

Having your children does (as someone else said) bring back your childhood feelings and because I felt so much pain as a child and am in touch with all my feelings I am able to empathise with my children so probably won't fail to support them in the way my mum did me. She has never owned her feelings (as someone else said, you need to) and because she has always been in denial probably doesn't even know what her authentic feelings are, so wasn't able to empathise with me. I also think when I felt pain as a child she failed to acknowledge it because to do that she would have had to acknowledge her own pain. So she played a game of "I am being strong, you have to too" to me, but my kids can be upset and angry and all the things they need to be and I will be there for them because I am not afraid of my emotions - or theirs. Does that make any sense?

I take your point, but hey, better to give your child a cuddle and a kiss they don't need than to ignore them when they cry (or sneer and say "Oh, here come the waterworks again..." like my mum did)...

Or 'Oh for god's sake, stop grizzling' or 'She's pouting again' - as mine did. Even when I was in my 20s...

I thought you were telling me to stop grizzling for a minute and my heart stopped cos I got that too!!! But the fact that it made me freeze like that shows how much of a hold my mother still had over me...

This can't be the way to talk to your children can it? I just can't imagine speaking to mine like that, put it that way. Can you imagine how you would feel if your DH said something like that to you in your adult life when you were upset? So how can it be right to shame and belittle the feelings of a child like that?

I suppose the difference between me and my mum is that I feel it is a good thing for a child to be able to tell their parents/family how they feel, express their emotions (obviously with guidance on how to do it without shouting/screaming etc.) and talk openly about things that have upset them - including things that I might have done to upset them - without being told to "get over it" or being called a liar.

Just out of interest if one of your children (especially those of you with older children) told you they were upset by something you had said or done and you couldn't remember having said or done it, how would you respond to them?

""Just out of interest if one of your children (especially those of you with older children) told you they were upset by something you had said or done and you couldn't remember having said or done it, how would you respond to them?""

I'd be horrified to think that I had effected them to an extent that their one lasting memory of their childhood was a bad one. I'd apologise for hurting them and, knowing me...I'd probably be crying!

My mum had a pretty crappy childhood and all she wanted in life was happy family home. She has definitely achieved it. She is fab mum and nana. She is always there although never overpowering. I also have a great relationship with my siblings which i think is in large part due to my mum and dad. What i am basically trying to say is that if you are aware of the flaws in your upbringing and are keen to break the mould then you will.

Me too Sandcastles!

And Tooz, it's great to know though that history doesn't have to keep repeating itself, isn't it? And on that subject now I'm going to get philosophical again... why is it that my mum was given no love by her mum, and so was emotionally cold to me. And yet I can't get enough of hugging and kissing my boys and can't bear to think of them in any pain at all? (Like Tooz's mum broke the mould and didn't repeat her own mum's behaviour) If there are any psychologists lurking here, explain please?!!!!

According to Alice Miller ('For your Own Good: The Roots of Violence in Child-rearing', among other books), if a child knows someone during their upbringing who shows them affection or just acknowledges that life doesn't have to be so cold/abusive, it can 'save' that child's emotional health. She said it could be a grandparent or an aunt, or even a family friend -any one person who set a different example.

Ah, interesting. I spent a lot of time with a friend who had normal parents, and were quite sweet to me. I remember thinking how nice it was that they all sat and chatted at mealtimes and there was no bad atmosphere. I must get that book. I read her book "The Drama of Being a Child" but it was a long time ago.

thats interesting, my step dad was always spending time with me, making me feel special etc. He was more often than not a better parent than my mum, ironic really as me & my step sister were the only experience he had of parenting children, as he never had his own!

"me & my step sister" NOT step sister, meant to say me & my sister were his step children

"I thought you were telling me to stop grizzling for a minute and my heart stopped cos I got that too!!!"

Yes - I've recently realised that my expectation is that people will speak abusively to me. Or even try to knock me around. I've had workmen in the house for ages - and during some particularly tense moments regarding the work, I wonder why it is that they just don't hit me. Because they'd be charged with assault, because they have boundaries because we are socialised animals... but why do these things not apply within a family??

I was driving the other day and suddenly remembered that my mother used to tell me that she would 'scar [me] for life' if I did something or other. What kind of way is that to relate to anyone??

"Just out of interest if one of your children (especially those of you with older children) told you they were upset by something you had said or done and you couldn't remember having said or done it, how would you respond to them?"
I think you have to acknowledge someone else's upset and hurt, even if you don't think there was anything intrinsically wrong in your course of action (perhaps there was a good reason, you were in a state yourself about something etc etc). Devaluing someone else's pain is a terrible thing to do. I still don't know now how justified I am in having certain emotions - because I've been told for years that I'm selfish, deceitful, over-acting, manipulative etc.

Redzuleika, I know the feeling... but I think my family (even if unconsciously) have always played on that and know that they can get away with dumping the blame on me for anything because I will (usally, in the past) say "Am i wrong then? Was it my fault?")

A friend once told me that the difference between me and her is that when someone upsets one of us she asks herself "what's their problem" and she told me you say "what have a done wrong?"

let me see, i have no relationship with my family now!! they dont want anything to do with me after i left home at age of 17, than when i got pregnant and they found out my dp was jamaican and christian they 'disowned me'!! (im bengali and my family are muslim).

well now i have two beautiful dc at the age 21 and i ahve proven to them that i could cope without them and that my dp is a family man and makes me happy!!

my sister has met my dd twice and i only speak to my mum on the phone a few times and during this time she will only question why i have shamed the family and why i wont try and convert my dp to islam. oh yeah and she reminds me of the consequences to what i have done - that i will be going to hell when i die!!

Last message deleted at my request. Sorry to be mysterious, just wasn't happy with my post!

what was wrong with the post? i readit and it was fine!!

Oh well that's okay then! It was meant for you anyway... just was worried that I might offend someone from the islamic community, and really didn't mean to or want to.