What's a normal healthy relationship with your family meant to be like?

[Pages]

Bit of a philosophical question I know! But me and my brother are both worried that we don't have very good role models as parents and want to be sure we get the right balance between being there for our children and not over-involved in a bad way...

There have been a lot of posts recently about difficult mother/daughter relationships and also the role our siblings play in our lives - and how the family (I mean the one we grew up in)always manages to push the buttons that make us feel like we did as kids (ie bad). Anyone out there with "normal" families find our connections/influence from our mums (and dads) unusual?

I'm interested to know because I read somewhere that most mothers let their children cut free in a healthy way during their adolescence whereas in dysfunctional familes the attachment carries on into adulthood (it's as if you are not allowed to be independent, being controlled in subtle ways by your parents and siblings carries on, family dynamics continue to be restricting and stressful).

I want to be sure I "let go" of my boys at the right time (if that's what I'm meant to do) - or do mums always wield huge amounts of power and influence over their children?

Please don't anyone say "what's normal?" - I know the breakfast cereal and bisto advert familes don't really exist but there is a big difference between symbiotic/co-dependent/dysfunctional familes like mine (alcoholic father who died, physically and verbally abusive step-father, inconsistent care from mother, denial from everyone about what was really going on and a lot of scapegoating, backstabbing and blaming going on in the present day)and a family who functions in a reasonably loving, caring, supportive and honest way.

I think you are right Sophable and I sincerely hope so. I know that whatever my boys' complaints against me they won't be on the same scale as mine because I would never let anyone hurt a hair on their dear little heads. I just feel sad that my mum didn't feel the same way about me.

My mum did have a bad childhood - she had both parents around but they were detached and unloving. This is all according to her because I never knew them. But I believe her and am certain that how she treated us was a product of her own upbringing. A bit of me can feel quite sorry for her. But it doesn't alter the fact that her harmful behaviour is continuing into the present day and it is very hard for me to live with.

I have just found out today from my sister that my mum is now badmouthing my older brother and his wife (presumably because they have stuck up for me) and is denying that the stuff in the past happened. She has told my sister that me and my brother have twisted things, and my sister believes us. My sister told me mum was alright to her and she doesn't believe that it all happened and hung up on me (my sister was only 2 when my mum left my stepdad so doesn't remember any of it).

I'll probably deal with this on another thread because it is getting off the subject but yet again my mum is calling me (and now my brother) a liar and has finally succeeded in getting the one remaining family member who was staying neutral against me and my brother.

Btw the reason I never knew my grandparents is that my mum was cut off from all of them. She believes my gran was manipulative and got the rest of the family against her. So history is definitely repeating itself. But she can't see that. I really believe she wants me to feel the loneliness she felt most of her life but didn't bank on my brother sticking up for me.

let go. if you can (herculean task). you are never going to change her. but weirdly if you stop giving a t*ss what she says, she's likelier to treat you better. very difficult that though.

what i said is no excuse pages. if her parenting wasn't good enough (and 'good enough' is pretty basic tbh, i'm not talking home made scones, although what they have got to do with anything...) it wasn't. nothing changes that. even remorse, which is extremely unlikely. if you think about it, probably the only way she has of dealing with how she is and has been is total and utter denial. leave her to it if you can.

hard.

Thanks, and you are right. Feel really raw atm that I have now lost my sister as well but it was kind of predictable. My mum has far more power than I do, and when push comes to shove my siblings will always prefer to believe she is a saint and I am a liar. At least I have my db to remember the truth with me and we have sworn that we will never let my mum divide us or tell us what happened to us didn't happen ever again.

And btw Sophable, dunno who is reponsible for you feeling thick and stupid earlier in your life but you sound pretty damn intelligent to me!

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if my post has gone away from the conversation (you may all be comparing your 'dysfunctional parents by now)
But the OP wanted to hear from someone who came from a 'normalish' family.
I think my parents went about it all in the right way. They were very strict in a lot of ways (stricter than I am with my kids) - with the usual stuff. My mother was a stickler for finishing your meal, eating your veg, having decent manners at the table. We absolutely were NOT allowed to play up in public (a smack in public was not unknown ). My father was (in my eyes at the time) exceptionally strict during my teenage years ... boyfriends, going out etc etc ... and I was constantly grounded for breaking the rules (well, actually for lying when I was found out to be breaking the rules) ... I was grounded for 3 months TWICE between the ages of 15 and 16. My dad had the classic "While you are under my roof you live by my rules" attitude.
BUT - the key to my parents' success as parents IMHO was that no matter what we did wrong, despite being clearly disappointed, they never ever made us feel unloved. I grew up knowing that I was loved no matter what I did - it was completely unconditional and we knew it. My parents were and still are my ROCK.
Gradually, from the age of 17 they began to loosen the reins ... sometimes I feel they could have let me have more responsibility when I was younger but hey, they are an older generation.
They also were always accessible to talk to. Never ever turned a question aside or 'didn't have time' ...
By the time I was 18 and was leaving home I had a very very healthy relationship with both my parents and still do. They have never told me what to do but have always let me know that they are there to give me advice if I want it. My mother has never told me how to bring up my children although she has raised her eyebrows at things I have done or not done. She never presumes to dictate what I should do. She will make a strong suggestion and then say, "Fine" when I do the opposite .
I really think, for me, the key to our relationship was the unconditional love thing ... they have never made me feel that I owe them for being my parents.
Sorry for the ramble, I don't know if this was the sort of answer you wanted ...

It's exactly the sort of answer - well they all have been! But your parents gave you boundaries and I think the feeling loved thing is crucial. I do honestly feel as well that smacking a 6 year old gently on the bottom is very different from punching a teenager in the mouth or throwing them across a room.

Pages, liberated. So glad that she is out of my life. I wrote to her when dd was born, saying she was welcome to come & met dd. She didn't even write back. Her's is a rejection I cannot stand, it hurts too much so I won't put myself in tht siuation again.

80sMum, reading what some of these people have been thru & knowing what I went thru I don't think your post is in good humour. I KNOW my dd will never have reason to repeat my words about my mum. For 1, I never tried 3 times to about her, I always tell her I love her, no man or woman will ever come before her & I will never pass her conception off as a rape to taint her view of her father (we are still together).

3 times to ABORT her

I have no experience of the childhood treatment some of you ladies have had ( very loving home, although my mum found it hard to let her girl grow up and a few chosen words over the years has been the only way to stop her unwanted advice).

Anyway, I'm am just so impressed with how people like Pages and Sandcastles turn into strong women and mothers despite the treatment they have received. I hope you realise this and it gives you power to (in Pages case) stand up to the quite obvious abusive members of your family.

Aww thanks guys. I don't feel so strong atm, though. Stuff happened yesterday but have moved this part over to my other thread ("Would you cut your mother out of your life")I think you could say that's the less philosophical thread...

Thank you floating....

After we sold our house (to move to Oz) we were staying with dh's aunt for week, in the same area that my mum lives. I bumped into her at the post office one day, she looked right thru me . TBH, looking back I am gald, as I don't want or need her in my life, but I just felt like she should have said something, she knew I was leaving the country, but she couldn't bring herself to even look me in the eye. I wished at that time that she had made an effort, because it would have meant that she loved me or at least cared enough to make an effort! I couldn't have spoken up, I have been rejected too many times & couldn't have faced another one, not when I was turning my life upside down.

When I told my dh's aunt she asked "how do you know that won't be you & dd in years to come" as she knows all of what went on, I just said, quite simply "because I love DD" right or wrong answer, I don't know.

I miss having a mum, someone to share my hopes & dream with, ask for advice with my dd & share in my triumphs, but I don't miss her, not at all.

Sandcastles .

At your mum I mean, not your response to your aunt (which sums it up perfectly). Tbh I do think my mum loves me in her own way but it is not enough on its own to counteract the other stuff.

pages, that sounds like my mom. i'm sure she does love me but the way she behaves is so damaging and abusive that it sorta makes it irrelavant. i can't imagine treating dd as she did me... cna't imagine having so little care or compassion for your own child that you say and do the things she has.

sandcastles..... {{{{hugs}}}}

Defnitely floating. That is why, I think, I am now standing up for myself and DS. And the reason I started the thread was because my brother's DS is now 5 and he said to me "my DS is now the same age I was when mum left dad - I don't have a role model from here." I had an epiphany today and want to say more on the subject but am so tired it will have to wait until tomorrow...

Thanks girls...since then I have really started to doubt how she feels. I emailed my brother, who had a bad relationship with her, then got things on an even keel, but now doesn't speak to her & it made him cry! he hardly shows any emotion, but he said he really felt for me.

Gave me closure tho. Any questions that were running throuugh my mind re introducing dd to her before we left (should I, shouldn't I), moving her youngest grandchild out of the country so now they willl never meet....that incident just cleared it all up for me. I am just glad that dd wasn't there, as now my mother will never get to see what a beautiful loving child she is

Floating...yes, that sums it up well. I have cried for my (lack of) mother daughter relationship with my mum, and when I do, dd cuddles me & says "it's alright mummy, I'm here" (like now) I think that my dd wouldn't be who she is if I hadn't gone through what I went through.

I never put her through any kind of trauma or upset when I was a child/teen, in fact I remember sitting on her lap cuddling her after my dad left (I was 5) when my dbro & dsis were fighting & she couldn't take anymore. I knew from an early age that I had to be agood girl otheriwse she wouldn't love me. What did I do that my siblings didn't? I just don't know!

I guess we will never understand why our mums acted how they did. We can try & analize it for as long as we like. The only I will get any answer is if I have a good honest chat with my mum, but then she would just lie, or say it never happened. So what will be achieved?

She used to tell me that she had to climb in bed with to stop my dad beating her & that he once threw whisky over us. The thing is, you ask any of my dad's friends and all will tell you that he has never touched a drop of alcohol & also...looking back, he would NEVER subject his children to that type of abuse...it's just not him.

I sometimes think that as her mother died whaen she was 12, that she never had any positive femal role model, she was left with 7 brothers & her dad. She was the much doted on youngest sister. BUT, she didn't mess up my sister, or my 2 elder brothers, so there realy is no telling.