I think I'm meant to be alone - do I let dp go?

[Sampanther]

I've been married before, which was a massive mistake. My exH was abusive in every way and a drinker. I've been with my now dp for over 5 yrs. I can completely trust him, he is a kind and thoughtful man and focussed on the children and I. He couldn't be any more opposite to my exH. He has never done anything wrong or criticised me or been horrible in any way.

However, I increasingly feel suffocated by being in a relationship. He tells me he loves me at least twenty times per day, in person and by text. He wants to text all day and I'd prefer if we didn't and just discussed our day in the evening. Whenever I stand or sit still without a child on me for longer than ten seconds he's trying to lay on me or cuddle or kiss me. At night he wants to lay nose to nose or stroking my face and sometimes I feel like screaming for him to give me some personal space.

He has a lot of weekdays off but never anything he wants to do. When he worked away I'd take dd to toddler groups, swimming, the park etc but also have days indoors painting and playing. If he's off he'll follow me wherever I go and whatever I do, literally from room to room and foot by foot at toddler groups/the pool. He's constantly trying to talk to me and not dd.

When he works away I'm more than happy to have busy days with the kids and go to bed and read. It's a relief to not have to go downstairs and have him all over me declaring his undying love. I find him very attractive physically but find the constant touching and 'i love yous' a turn off.

I feel like if I can't be happy with him then I'll never be happy with anyone because he's pretty much great all round. Is it kinder to let him go and resign myself to being single? I love him but admit I'm happier knowing the kids and I are going home to an empty house than to him, and it seems like the kids are too.

This brings back memories of a previous boyfriend although we were about 17 at the time. I still cringe now though, twenty odd years later. I'm sorry to sound harsh but I wouldn't be able to put up with his behaviour for five minutes never mind five years. He sounds very needy.

He even wants to hold my hand while driving and will often stop eating to tell me he loves me and try and kiss me when I'm mid-mouthful! It's like he has no sense of when its appropriate

See, I agree with SGB now, that is controlling and intrusive, not romantic or about meeting your needs.

He is competing for affection with your dd.

You cannot get away from him, he's constantly all over you.

I would hate this with a vengeance, I consider myself a touchy feely person who likes a cuddle/holding hands occasionally, but this incessant pawing is really intrusive and controlling.

He's also passive in trying to parent your child, but extremely active about getting in your face all the time for affection and attention. So it is not just a passive laid-back attitude to life is it?

His exW cheated on him repeatedly and was very cold and manipulative towards him so I think he feels he's 'making up for lost time' with all the affection. I think I'd be looking at that with a fresh pair of eyes given what you've said about him. Do you think he may have actually been doing the same to her as he is to you? Suffocating her?

Can only agree with SGB. It is controlling and manipulative behaviour.

I'd also agree that it's controlling behaviour. But in its early stages, and justified by 'loving you so much'; maybe you also hear 'can't keep my hands off you', and other things you're meant to be flattered by.

But listen OP: trying to hold your hand while driving is dangerous. Trying to kiss you while you're eating is creepy. He has not the slightest concern about your wishes here, or respect for your person or personal space. It's all about what he feels like doing with you.

You are struggling with simple boundaries, and privacy. Can you see where this is going, in the long run?

My friend's ex H was an abuser. One of the earliest signs was a refusal to allow her personal space. It was all done very romantically; but basically he was all over her, wouldn't leave her alone for a moment. He showed his more obvious abusive traits a few years down the line (after they were married)

"He hasn't always been this full on - it's pretty much since our dd was born because she's quite full on and very much attached to me so any time he spots a chance to get close to me, he takes it."

^^This sounds like he feels he needs to "compete" with your dd for your affection and he doesn't like that she is your priority.

His behaviour is controlling. I think its a tough call to know whether its abusive, thats subjective i think. And its hard to know whether he can change. If I had been in a relationship where someone had cheated, repeatedly I think I would feel insecure and clingy. I think I'd be anxious if they were off on business trips or working late/ nights out with friends.
It might mean thatmy behaviour might put someone off, I don't know.
He's competing with your daughter in a way that is detrimental to your relationship with both of them. And detrimental to her in particular as her needs become sidelined by him in his pursuit of you.

The thing is, lots of women get easily touched out when they have a baby and their DP expects "service as usual" and so a lot of us spend time swatting our DPs away for a while, hoping they'll understand. That makes it hard to see when there's a real problem IYSWIM. And it does seem that's his is above and beyond the usual adjusting that many ppl go through. Do you see controlling behaviours in his other relationships?

I wonder if some counselling might help (particually for him and his issues) but if this is an abusive pattern, of course that won't be the way to go. Sorry. Im not being very helpful.

Sorry your don't have ppl locally. I now that's hard.
I find that a toddler group (dusty church hall) near me has helped me avoid isolation. I don't have to commit every week and the women are friendly enough and dd gets to play without messing up the house.
Someone might even make you a [brerw]

I have just read the update on your other thread.
And the part about his leaving her to cry Until you return makes me feel very uncomfortable. At best it underlines his feelings about her as a rival for your attention. It also suggests he might not have developed a good attachment to her IMHO.

Could you talk to your health visitor? Or your GP? Maybe they could suggest some therapeutic work.

He's not controlling in any way at all, honestly. I think it is as simple as him 'missing' me since dd was born which he openly (and frequently) admits to. It just annoys me though because it's like he's whining at me - I could list 100 things I miss since having her. The only thing that's changed for him is less time with me, that's hardly the biggest surprise or sacrifice in the world IMO.

We do go to a toddler group but when he's off he wants to come which means I don't get to speak to anyone else because he follows me but I feel contradictory saying things need to improve with dd but you can't come to toddler group. He wouldn't take her there alone.

No. No it isn't about him 'missing' you. It is about him demanding that you put him first above your daughter at all times. The leaving her to cry is also about teaching your daughter where she comes in the pecking order. It is cruel. This man is not nice. He is not just coming to terms with having a child. He has an expectation that he will be the centre of your attention and that what he wants come first. He is selfish and uncaring.

So you say he isn't controlling and then explain classic controlling behaviour. He doesn't want to go to toddler group to be with your DD but to control what you do. You are changing your usual behaviour at toddler groupto please him. That's exactly what he wants.

It's quite common for ppl to like to feel/ be in control.
I think he is controlling.
He accepts overtime but you're at home with a house full of DCs. He goes out socially but you never do.
You're not able to go to a toddler group without him.
Ok. Next time you're both at toddler group could you say to him that it would be lovely if he could be the one to lead with dd. that you are shattered (aren't you?) and you'd love to just sit and have a cuppa and therefore, yes, it would be lovely if he came too?
If he did that a few times it gives them a chance to practice being together and gives you some space to find him more tolerable.

Afraid I'm inclined to agree with scallops here.
But even giving him the benefit of doubt, the way he is with your dd is worrying.

You have stated that you like going into the house when he's not there and suspect the children do too.

He tries to kiss you when you're eating and will follow you to toddler group but is completely passive and uncaring towards your dd.

The more you reveal describes a controlling and quietly abusive man.

Sam you don't have to do anything. You don't have to stay with him, help him, leave him.
You're already a good mother and most of us strive for that every day.
Fwiw, although i beleive is behaviour is controlling, you are saying that he is not unkind to you. think think counselling might be useful for the two of you or for each of you. I wonder if framing it ways particular way might help him accept some input. You could perhaps say to him that as each of you have had difficult relationships in the past you think it's worth getting some professional help now because you value your relationship with him and you don't want the past screwing up the present.
Have you ever discussed counselling with him?

Being controlling doesn't mean that a person stands over you with a clipboard dictating your every move, though. Control often comes from insecurity and it's VERY often dressed up as "caring" "generosity" "missing you" (You LIVE together FFS!) - a "caring" control move could be "I worry about you when you're with those friends. They're so wild, anything could happen." "I trust you but I just don't trust him." Generosity - sending extravagant flowers to your workplace after an argument or when you've only recently got together in order to show everyone what a wonderful boyfriend he is. Whisking you off on holiday with no regard for your sick mother who you are looking after or plans that you have made with a friend or work deadlines. Buying expensive gifts which are then used as currency when he wants something. And yours - needing to be in contact all the time, making you feel suffocated, constant texts, expecting you to answer immediately with him getting agitated/concerned if you don't ("for your safety")

He might not be aware of what he's doing but he is certainly being controlling whether he intends to be or not. I'd wager that he DOES intend it but is probably not really aware of this intention if that makes any sense at all.

You don't feel he's controlling- yet you have to adapt your behaviour to avoid him or his needs or his demands all the time. He follows you to toddler group- why not just say 'I'd rather go on my own and have a gossip' or if he stops you eating to kiss say 'I'm eating now, could that wait til afterwards' or if you are driving, be much ruder and say 'I'm driving, that's dangerous, stop it'.

What would happen if you resisted? What happens if you pull away or say 'no'? (I already know the answer, he sulks, feels rejected or left out). Hence you try to adapt to him, put up with his pawing so he doesn't feel he is 'missing' you.

Millions of people have babies and their partners feel a bit neglected for six months, but you are past the baby stage and I don't know anyone who has to put up with constant physical intrusion like this.

It is much more subtle than hurting you, because it is under the cloak of 'love' and 'missing you' but actually, he doesn't care about your needs and if you resist his behaviour, he'll soon ramp it up (either being rejection or doing the puppy dog thing).

It is not healthy for a man to be competing with his own child in this way, nor to be putting her second and always trying to be first in your attentions.

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but even sorrier you are used to it and seem to think it is normal. I don't think it is normal to constantly touch and stroke someone to the point it interferes with normal life, you are not his pet.

Yes. He doesn't seem to be considerate of your needs.
Or your dd.
I don't know how to suggest managing this.
Have you tried to create some distance? Is there a way you could do that?
Are any of the toddler group mums up for a coffee morning/ girls night in?

Is he awful at looking after dd to make sure you can't go out alone?

Have you ever to him you need space? Would he respect your boundaries if you put some in place?

*to = told

I am wondering why you have not been blunter with him so far. Is it just not in your nature to be direct & blunt, or are you worried about his reaction?

The messages you seem to have given him so far seem to be a bit indirect and overly gentle. (Just going from the thread mind.)

So he neglects your DD as well? I think this man is actually potentially dangerous to the DC in that case. There was another poster on here, several years ago, whose partner behaved in a similar way towards their baby, constantly ordering the OP to prioritize him over the child. She binned him, and not a minute too soon.

I'm sorry you feel so down about this, and sad that you seem to think th fault lies with your inability to be in a relationship.

As far as I can see, you've simply exchanged one type of abuser with another. The first used violence and fear to control you. This one uses OTT and inappropriate "affection" to control you. Except it's not affection, is it? It's a command "I'm so caring and loving that I insist you make me the centre of your universe in the same way I appear to be making you mine".

Where you're probably confused is because there's no saying whether your DP (or your X for that matter) possesses any kind of self-awareness about what he's doing. He may not be purposefully manipulating you in this way at all. Sadly, it doesn't make any difference. It's suffocating and unacceptable no matter what the motives.

I wish you the strength you need to leave him.

Oh OP.
That is controlling behaviour, everything you've described.

You just can't see it yet

He sounds a right pain in the arse OP. He's treating you like his mum fgs!