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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Infrequent, poor sex - argument on the horizon.

70 replies

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 15:27

I'm an occasional poster rather than a regular poster but I have name-changed for this because DP knows my normal user name (although I'm sure he would recognise the situation if he reads this anyway) and because I am embarrassed.

DP has been avoiding me this week. He came round last night was obviously not his usual self and has now left for the day in a sulky manner. The reason almost certainly is because we don't have enough sex in his opinion and, to be honest, in mine too. I do like sex but we don't have much sex because, when we do, it's not satisfactory for me. I never initiate it and when we do have sex I am, if I'm honest, just 'letting him' to keep the peace. This leaves me feeling resentful and even less like wanting sex. The reason things have come to a head (again) this week is because he initiated sex on Sunday and it didn't happen. More on that later.

Problems first started nearly a year into our relationship after I'd given him keys to my flat (he doesn't live here but he can come and go). He'd get home first and start to leap on me the second I got through the door, sweaty and smelly from exercise. I didn't feel sexy or confident in that state. At the very least I'd have liked the opportunity to freshen up 'down there'. When I explained this, he took it personally and reacted with anger because he felt rejected. This was the first instance where sex wasn't how he wanted it to be. "It doesn't bother me!" is one of his catchphrases, failing to take into account that things still matter if they bother me. Him being unable to put himself in other peoples' shoes is not an unusual theme.

The anger was very damaging and, I think, a turning point. I lost faith we could discuss sex without it turning into a nasty argument. I became embarrassed and afraid to initiate any discussion about what I wanted or to say anything when I wasn't enjoying myself. I should mention here that my parents gave me a background where 'nice girls don't'. They would always tut if someone so much as held hands on the television so it's difficult to feel that I deserve to enjoy myself and any negative feedback only magnifies that.

We've now been together nearly 4 years. Obviously sex has now come up as a discussion several times and it always starts as an argument when his resentment boils over because he feels he isn't getting enough and feels rejected. I can understand this because he is being rejected and that can't be nice for him or good for his self-esteem. On these occasions, backed into a corner, I do tell him what would make it more satisfactory for me. I try to phrase it non-critically such as "I like it when you use toys, just because your job makes your hands a bit like sandpaper" but obviously he does feel criticised and I get more personal accusations such as "you just lie there like a sack of potatoes". Eventually, we come to a compromise, he makes adjustments for a couple of sessions, then either forgets (his memory is very bad) or can't be bothered at which point I lose interest can't bring it up through fear of embarrassment on my part and anger on his and we go through the loop again.

There are things he does during sex that really put me off and that I don't like. I'm listing them to get this off my chest and because I want to be told if I'm being unreasonable before the inevitable argument tonight. I like fresh breath. He will often try to initiate sex when smelling of garlic or smoke. If I complain, I get told I'm unreasonable because it doesn't bother him if I smell of garlic. I need to be warm. He insists on me being naked but then will repeatedly drag the duvet off when he moves or flaps it about when he adjusts it until I'm cold. We had a session around Christmas where I started out as being really up for it. He dragged the duvet off no fewer than 21 times and took neither this nor the fact I said many times how chilly it was as a hint. I physically lost interest, ended up sorting him out just so I could put my clothes back on and afterwards felt really resentful. He regularly tries to give me oral sex, even though I've told him I don't really like it and would prefer him to use his hands or a toy then sulks if I move him away. If I let him, again I feel resentful and pressured into doing something I didn't want. He doesn't touch me in the right place. To be fair, this isn't entirely his fault. He has workman's fingers and a very poor sense of touch. What gets to me is that if I try to adjust his hands, he just stiffens his wrist. I don't know whether this is deliberate. This is where Sunday went wrong. He touched me, I was interested, things got a bit more heated, I tried to adjust his hands, he resisted, I'd had simply enough of this and moved my hands so I was touching the wrong area as well so he could see how frustrating it was, he tetchily removed my hand after a minute and we stopped. We didn't talk about it during or after. This did leave me feeling frustrated and irritated as it seemed he only touched me because he wanted something out of it and when that involved him having to make an effort he wasn't interested anymore. He has complained that I "can't even be bothered to give him a hand job when not interested" in the past. Not only is this not true, I can't think of an occasion where he's done the same for me.

He has criticisms of me as well. According to him I like to mop up too quickly after sex. I've agreed not to do this, either if we can put a towel down so that I don't have to sleep in a wet/crusty smelly bed until I next get opportunity to change the sheets or if he washes and changes the sheets. I've stuck to my side of the bargain. He hasn't stuck to his. I've gone back to mopping. He doesn't like the fact I spray deodorant all over as it tastes unpleasant. Fair enough, so I don't if he's suggested sex is on the cards but I do get sweaty without it so whilst I appreciate he'd sometimes like to be spontaneous I can't just never use deodorant just in case. Often I am tired and I get back late but these are things I could also level at him - he is tired, leaves early and often disappears for most of the weekends we would normally spend together. He complains I'm not passionate or spontaneous enough. Well, no. Not when I'm not enjoying it and he ignores or forgets what I want, I won't be.

I'd find it difficult enough to broach these things with him calmly but now I'm angry and resentful after Sunday and don't know what to say. I know he's angry too. I would like to do something about this without an argument where he gets nasty because he is defensive and where we don't end up making matters worse for a change.

Other than this issue, we normally get on very well and I'm perfectly capable of sticking up for myself. It's just this.

Sorry, this is a bit long and rambling. I just need some advice and probably hand-holding before and after it all, as likely as not, kicks off tonight. I'm going off thread in a little while as I have things to do and don't know when I'll be back. I promise I'm not trolling.

OP posts:
crispyporkbelly · 18/04/2014 15:42

Thing is, he hasn't changed in 4 years because he's not interested/too stubborn/selfish too. So you have to decide if you can live in a relationship with poor sex.

Ikeameatballs · 18/04/2014 15:48

You've had 4 years of this.

Get out now and find a partner who you can u joy sex with. This isn't going to get any better.

LongTimeLurking · 18/04/2014 15:49

You sound sexually incompatible.

fifi669 · 18/04/2014 15:52

Hmmmm for me it wouldn't be the crap sex that was a deal breaker but the lack of motivation to change. Can you see yourself living the rest of your life with your current sex life? Only you know

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 15:53

I would like it if the sex just naturally fell into place but it's not the be-all and end-all of a relationship for me. The company, laughs and getting on are more important to me.

I don't want to LTB. I suppose I've just spent many paragraphs trying to ask how we can have this discussion without it turning into a fight.

Has anyone tried therapy? Would that be a thing to suggest? A third party to intervene when the discussion takes an awkward turn?

OP posts:
fifi669 · 18/04/2014 15:57

Is the third party in or out if the bedroom? Wink

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:02
Grin
OP posts:
Val007 · 18/04/2014 16:02

You are sexually incompatible. You both sound very stubborn and petty too.

Val007 · 18/04/2014 16:04

Things will only get worse with all this resentment on both sides, anyway. So you might as well leave now. Or leave after you've wasted another 4 years of your life. Your call.

badbaldingballerina123 · 18/04/2014 16:06

I think it's important to look at what people do , not what they say. You've told him you don't like certain things yet he still does them. He complains about lack of sex then seemingly goes out of his way to ensure you have a horrible time , making sure you get the blame.

The bit where you say about him stiffening his wrist made me feel sick as I've had a similar experience. what your describing is a type of sexual assault. That was a non verbal statement that said ill touch you how , and where I want, and he's used physical strength in response to your objections. In my experience with this type of person the more you say you don't like it the more they'll do it. It's just not plausible that he doesn't know where to touch you , he's not 15. If your feeling frustrated that's because your meant to. It's deliberate.

I'm sorry to say I think this is a type of abuse , and I doubt it's occurring on its own. He's deliberately making it so you don't want to have sex , then blaming you. He's criticizing your performance , and he's sulking at you when he doesn't get his way. You said that apart from this you both get along well , but at the end of your post you say he gets nasty and that it will likely kick off later.

It shouldn't be like that Op. A normal man doesn't grope their partner knowing full well they don't like it. They don't get nasty when you try to raise problems and they don't sulk and pout. You also said he has a problem putting himself in other peoples shoes. I divorced someone like this , it's no fun , and eventually , submitting to sex that you don't want will become incredibly damaging. You deserve better.

Sparrowlegs248 · 18/04/2014 16:08

There seem to be so many 'conditions' on each side. And resentment from both of you. I don't think you should ever do something that you aren't happy with but the mopping up/duvet flapping scenarios just seem odd to me.

You need to have an open discussion with him, inluding that you like sex and want more of it but that there are things that put you off. Though reading back, i honestly feel that it shouldn't be that much hard work for either of you.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:10

"You both sound very stubborn and petty too."

OK. Taking this on board. So what can I do differently?

OP posts:
sprite25 · 18/04/2014 16:13

Op I feel for you, as my DH is pretty much the same (but not exactly) find someone who you enjoy it with, where it's natural and not a chore. Trust me the frustration and resentment just grows.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:13

"mopping up/duvet flapping scenarios just seem odd to me"

Does this mean I should just stop fretting about the wet patch and take other measures to avoid cold?

To be fair, I don't think he flaps the duvet to make me cold. It's just that when he moves about in bed, he seems to drag everything with him. I often find the undersheet halfway down the bed when he gets up.

OP posts:
badbaldingballerina123 · 18/04/2014 16:18

I don't think the duvet is your problem Op.

Your problem is you've got a partner who knows full well you don't like particular things and insists on doing them anyway.

mansize · 18/04/2014 16:22

Why does he want you to sleep in a wet path? That is very odd behaviour. He seems to want to control you sexually.

mansize · 18/04/2014 16:22

patch obviously

Jan45 · 18/04/2014 16:23

Sorry but I think you've done really well to stick with him! He doesn't listen to what you need, that's a poor sign, it's all about him, he wants more sex but is unwilling to give you what you need, it's not rocket science. things will not improve until the two of you can sit down and have a frank talk. Doesn't sound like he treats you very nice either if he just disappears for the weekend, no wonder you are resentful.

I don't think you're unreasonable, I think he is.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:28

The oral sex thing will definitely be discussed again. I have said that I can enjoy it once in a while. That's the grey area. I can understand that if I said no last time he might think I will want it this time. The bad grace in which he accepts I don't want it is, as you suggest, unacceptable, though. I'm not rejecting him when I do this. I'm just rejecting that. I would prefer him only to do it when it's specifically asked for.

Again, I don't want to LTB, I just want to talk about this calmly with him and I don't know how.

OP posts:
mansize · 18/04/2014 16:28

A few years ago I was driving a man I'd been seeing for a couple of dates somewhere. When I parked up he put his hand down my pants. I asked him to stop but he didn't. I grabbed his arm and felt it tighten up as he refused to stop touching me (in completely the wrong place btw). I was embarrassed and tried to pretend it never happened, but I really regret not throwing him off me and kicking him out of my car.

It's a different scenario, OP, but it's wilful behaviour on the man's part in an attempt to control and dominate you sexually.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:32

"Why does he want you to sleep in a wet patch?"

He wants to cuddle. So do I but I just want to grab some tissues first before there's a big patch (sorry, tmi). He feels this is a faff and that I am OCD. He doesn't make me sleep in it, it just happens where it happens and if it's over his side, so be it. "It doesn't bother him". But it bothers me. It bothers me because I then have to change the sheets or put up with crusty smelly sheets until I next get an opportunityl

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 18/04/2014 16:34

FFS. Bin the man. He has no respect for you and thinks sex is about men doing stuff to women and women accepting it with enthusiasm no matter how uncomfortable or boring it actually is for them.

mansize · 18/04/2014 16:34

Tell him to wear condom them. And keep it on while you cuddle.

Jan45 · 18/04/2014 16:36

Is he that ignorant that he thinks if something doesn't bother him, it won't bother you....if so, you're onto a losing battle.

Perhaps OP it's time to get touch and actually give him it with two barrels, I actually think you are being far too kind to him and he certainly doesn't give you any in return.

I honestly think you need to tell him straight, if he still doesn't listen then it's time to call it quits and let him carry on in his selfish mode.

Jan45 · 18/04/2014 16:37

tough not touch