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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Infrequent, poor sex - argument on the horizon.

70 replies

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 15:27

I'm an occasional poster rather than a regular poster but I have name-changed for this because DP knows my normal user name (although I'm sure he would recognise the situation if he reads this anyway) and because I am embarrassed.

DP has been avoiding me this week. He came round last night was obviously not his usual self and has now left for the day in a sulky manner. The reason almost certainly is because we don't have enough sex in his opinion and, to be honest, in mine too. I do like sex but we don't have much sex because, when we do, it's not satisfactory for me. I never initiate it and when we do have sex I am, if I'm honest, just 'letting him' to keep the peace. This leaves me feeling resentful and even less like wanting sex. The reason things have come to a head (again) this week is because he initiated sex on Sunday and it didn't happen. More on that later.

Problems first started nearly a year into our relationship after I'd given him keys to my flat (he doesn't live here but he can come and go). He'd get home first and start to leap on me the second I got through the door, sweaty and smelly from exercise. I didn't feel sexy or confident in that state. At the very least I'd have liked the opportunity to freshen up 'down there'. When I explained this, he took it personally and reacted with anger because he felt rejected. This was the first instance where sex wasn't how he wanted it to be. "It doesn't bother me!" is one of his catchphrases, failing to take into account that things still matter if they bother me. Him being unable to put himself in other peoples' shoes is not an unusual theme.

The anger was very damaging and, I think, a turning point. I lost faith we could discuss sex without it turning into a nasty argument. I became embarrassed and afraid to initiate any discussion about what I wanted or to say anything when I wasn't enjoying myself. I should mention here that my parents gave me a background where 'nice girls don't'. They would always tut if someone so much as held hands on the television so it's difficult to feel that I deserve to enjoy myself and any negative feedback only magnifies that.

We've now been together nearly 4 years. Obviously sex has now come up as a discussion several times and it always starts as an argument when his resentment boils over because he feels he isn't getting enough and feels rejected. I can understand this because he is being rejected and that can't be nice for him or good for his self-esteem. On these occasions, backed into a corner, I do tell him what would make it more satisfactory for me. I try to phrase it non-critically such as "I like it when you use toys, just because your job makes your hands a bit like sandpaper" but obviously he does feel criticised and I get more personal accusations such as "you just lie there like a sack of potatoes". Eventually, we come to a compromise, he makes adjustments for a couple of sessions, then either forgets (his memory is very bad) or can't be bothered at which point I lose interest can't bring it up through fear of embarrassment on my part and anger on his and we go through the loop again.

There are things he does during sex that really put me off and that I don't like. I'm listing them to get this off my chest and because I want to be told if I'm being unreasonable before the inevitable argument tonight. I like fresh breath. He will often try to initiate sex when smelling of garlic or smoke. If I complain, I get told I'm unreasonable because it doesn't bother him if I smell of garlic. I need to be warm. He insists on me being naked but then will repeatedly drag the duvet off when he moves or flaps it about when he adjusts it until I'm cold. We had a session around Christmas where I started out as being really up for it. He dragged the duvet off no fewer than 21 times and took neither this nor the fact I said many times how chilly it was as a hint. I physically lost interest, ended up sorting him out just so I could put my clothes back on and afterwards felt really resentful. He regularly tries to give me oral sex, even though I've told him I don't really like it and would prefer him to use his hands or a toy then sulks if I move him away. If I let him, again I feel resentful and pressured into doing something I didn't want. He doesn't touch me in the right place. To be fair, this isn't entirely his fault. He has workman's fingers and a very poor sense of touch. What gets to me is that if I try to adjust his hands, he just stiffens his wrist. I don't know whether this is deliberate. This is where Sunday went wrong. He touched me, I was interested, things got a bit more heated, I tried to adjust his hands, he resisted, I'd had simply enough of this and moved my hands so I was touching the wrong area as well so he could see how frustrating it was, he tetchily removed my hand after a minute and we stopped. We didn't talk about it during or after. This did leave me feeling frustrated and irritated as it seemed he only touched me because he wanted something out of it and when that involved him having to make an effort he wasn't interested anymore. He has complained that I "can't even be bothered to give him a hand job when not interested" in the past. Not only is this not true, I can't think of an occasion where he's done the same for me.

He has criticisms of me as well. According to him I like to mop up too quickly after sex. I've agreed not to do this, either if we can put a towel down so that I don't have to sleep in a wet/crusty smelly bed until I next get opportunity to change the sheets or if he washes and changes the sheets. I've stuck to my side of the bargain. He hasn't stuck to his. I've gone back to mopping. He doesn't like the fact I spray deodorant all over as it tastes unpleasant. Fair enough, so I don't if he's suggested sex is on the cards but I do get sweaty without it so whilst I appreciate he'd sometimes like to be spontaneous I can't just never use deodorant just in case. Often I am tired and I get back late but these are things I could also level at him - he is tired, leaves early and often disappears for most of the weekends we would normally spend together. He complains I'm not passionate or spontaneous enough. Well, no. Not when I'm not enjoying it and he ignores or forgets what I want, I won't be.

I'd find it difficult enough to broach these things with him calmly but now I'm angry and resentful after Sunday and don't know what to say. I know he's angry too. I would like to do something about this without an argument where he gets nasty because he is defensive and where we don't end up making matters worse for a change.

Other than this issue, we normally get on very well and I'm perfectly capable of sticking up for myself. It's just this.

Sorry, this is a bit long and rambling. I just need some advice and probably hand-holding before and after it all, as likely as not, kicks off tonight. I'm going off thread in a little while as I have things to do and don't know when I'll be back. I promise I'm not trolling.

OP posts:
NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:38

I'm not sure how deliberate the wrist tightening thing is. He really can't feel much with his fingers. I've had mild electric shocks off of equipment that he really can't feel and refused to believe wasn't pins and needles until we got a multimeter and proved it. I can't be sure he's not tensing his wrist so that he can keep it in the position I put it, but gets it wrong.

OP posts:
mansize · 18/04/2014 16:38

It's all about HIM. He isn't giving any consideration to what you want. Sex should not be like this. It sounds gruelling and he sounds like an entitled prick who thinks you are there to service him.

mansize · 18/04/2014 16:39

Didn't you suggest he used a toy though?

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 18/04/2014 16:40

He's very controlling in small but horrible ways. You have to tolerate smelly breath. You aren't allowed to shower before wanting sex. You have to cuddle and let his spunk ooze onto your sheets before being allowed to wipe up. You should just accept it the way he wants it and if you don't you are unreasonable.
If he was more accommodating and easy going you would probably be more up for sex but he's not, he's rigid and inflexible and thoughtless.
For me, sex is a deal breaker so I would have dumped him ages ago. I don't know how to advise you other than to do the same.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:42

Yes, which he will do, when prompted, but again it's about keeping things in position because he can't really feel any more through the toy than his fingers.

Thinking about it it is unfair I have to prompt him to use a toy, which I do want, but not oral sex, which I don't.

So, what can I say? What words do I use?

OP posts:
NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:44

To be fair to him, you're all only getting my side of this.

OP posts:
mansize · 18/04/2014 16:49

Why does he insist on giving you oral sex when he knows you don't like it? Gets in a huff when you ask him to stop?

My words to him would be 'sod off'.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 16:54

"Why does he insist on giving you oral sex when he knows you don't like it?"

This is going to stop. I'm going to remove the grey area by telling him never to do it again unless I ask for it.

But I don't want to turn this into a conflict by using those words, exactly.

How do the rest of you negotiate? What do you say? What do you do when you're both already irritable? Sorry to ask. My parents weren't good role models on this either.

OP posts:
LavenderGreen14 · 18/04/2014 16:59

regardless of who said what and who does this and that - you are not happy. He doesn't listen, he pleases himself, pressures you into sex that you don't enjoy. You are trying to change his behaviour - but you can't. He won't. This isn't about you being unreasonable.

I just don't understand why you are with him when you are so miserable. Get rid and find someone you can enjoy sex with without all these terms and conditions. It all seems so clinical - do this, do that. It shouldn't be such hard work should it?

Jan45 · 18/04/2014 17:04

Oh don't do that OP, don't minimise what is really selfish and pretty nasty behaviour, if you are not lying then it's not a one sided story, he does actually do these things.

Sex is a joy and best thing about it is having a partner who actually wants to give you pleasure, I don't read that anywhere on what you've said.

BigPawsBrown · 18/04/2014 17:06

Why don't you try going back to basics?

So, one night a week both be naked in a warm room together/under the duvet and just touch each other. Then add kissing, massage etc, but not sex. He needs to understand that you are a) not enjoying what he does and b) as a result, not actually truly consenting to sex with him.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 17:08

I'm not generally unhappy with the relationship. Outside of the bedroom, it's enjoyable. Other disagreements, of which there are few, are dealt with because they aren't things he gets self-defensive about and they aren't things I find it difficult to express.

You're right it shouldn't be so clinical. It wasn't when we started. It spiraled into this after that first disagreement.

OP posts:
badbaldingballerina123 · 18/04/2014 17:10

People in a healthy relationship would say , I'm not keen on x. The other person would say ok .

The fact your looking for what words to use , phrases to use, so as not to upset him is quite chilling I think. There shouldn't be any conflict when telling someone what you don't like.

I don't accept he can't feel much with his fingers or he would have all sorts of problems , from dropping things to severe burns. And even if he does , his eyes should work perfectly well. And his ears.

Mopping up with tissues doesn't affect him in the slightest.It's actually none of his business what you do with your body.

BigPawsBrown · 18/04/2014 17:10

Perhaps he's got performance anxiety - sounds like you've never really got to the bottom of how he can satisfy you and he's a bit rubbish at it maybe and feels too self conscious to try. Not acceptable really but not IMO a sacking offence.

LyndaCartersBigPants · 18/04/2014 17:11

I don't have to negotiate, my DP takes his cues from my reactions, asks me what I need him to do and happily does it, suggests that if ever I want him to do a specific thing i only have to ask and he'll be happy to oblige (unless it's the one thing that neither of us want to do!)

If your h isn't capable of taking a hint (if you're not saying "Mmm that's really nice" then it probably isn't!) and if he won't take gentle guidance or requests to use toys, then he's a selfish lover and is unlikely to get any better.

Communication is the key and if you can't tell him what you need for fear of him taking it all to heart, what hope is there?

LyndaCartersBigPants · 18/04/2014 17:14

Oh and DP always washes his hands straight afterwards. I find it funny, I rib him about being a bit OCD, but I wouldn't want to prevent him doing it. Similarly, I keep a towel by the bed, he wouldn't stop me using it! Everyone has different thresholds for 'mess' and although I don't mind it, DP finds it a bit off putting, so he cleans up before cuddles.

mansize · 18/04/2014 17:14

How do the rest of you negotiate? What do you say?

You shouldn't need to negotiate! You cannot negotiate with somebody who refuses to listen to you in any case.

If you can't say to your partner 'I don't want oral sex tonight' without them getting huffy with you then it's a losing battle. Sorry OP. You will never win with this man. He sounds like a pig.

NotLookingForwardToTonight · 18/04/2014 17:17

"Perhaps he's got performance anxiety"

No, definitely not this. He has no problems there.

"sounds like you've never really got to the bottom of how he can satisfy you and he's a bit rubbish at it maybe and feels too self conscious to try."

This is a problem. Because sex is something I have been conditioned to feel is 'wrong', because this has become a source of conflict, it makes it difficult to express myself. Had he not been so self-defensive during that first disagreement we probably wouldn't be in this situation. I understand from his point of view that he felt rejected but he should have approached it without going on the offensive.

I have to go and do some things now. Not sure I'll have time to jump back on here before he comes round. Thank you all so much for all your help and comments. I may jump back on here after we've spoken (and I hope it is 'spoken' and not 'argued').

OP posts:
mansize · 18/04/2014 17:20

What do you mean 'conditioned'?

I wish you the best with the conversation, OP. Don't let him manipulate you. You deserve to be spoken to lovingly and reasonably about your basic needs and desires. This is not a topic that should turn into conflict.

Jan45 · 18/04/2014 17:20

Good luck, make sure changes happen!

abbykins3 · 18/04/2014 17:22

The wet patch thing made me smile.

lilly Allen mentions it in one of her songs,can't think which one.

I think you have been really good about things,tried to make it work etc etc.

You obviously care enough about him not to want to leave him.

This is probably the least helpful reply you will get.
You either learn to live with it or what is more likely,you get so pissed off you will break up.
Might take a year or two and a lot of wet sheets and cold beds.Smile

Guiltypleasures001 · 18/04/2014 17:26

I'm sorry op regardless of a anything else you have written this stands out for me.

He stiffens his wrist so I cannot move it to what would be for you either a more comfortable position or is pleasurable for me.

That alone would would earn any bloke a swift knee in the bollocks, it's not accepted at any time in any circumstance from anyone. I find the fact that you don't at least ponder this major bit of info for yourself quite concerning.

Also if any of what you have said about him is ok by you including the above, I wonder where your personal boundaries are.

This is not shit sex, this is tantamount to assault and you seem to see it as him seeing you as stubborn.

He is abusive not only sexually, but in a lot of other ways, and to say neither of you are compatible is an understatement. This relationship or what ever it is is toxic and damaging.

Sparrowlegs248 · 18/04/2014 17:30

I hope you manage to speak without arguing OP. The trouble is, people can be very upset or hurt by comments on their 'skills'. You are telling him that you don't like what he does. I am in no way excusing his behaviour but i do know i would hate to hear that myself. He is getting defensive and doesn't seem to grasp that he needs to change what he does in order to please you.

Can you talk about how sex was to start with - you say it was better in the beginning? Go back to that time.

And maybe look into help for yourself - you have mentioned being conditioned into thinking its wrong. Just for yourself really, its not a healthy attitude to have towards sex. Obviously i'm not saying its your fault but you might be happier with sex in general if you could be more accepting that its 'right' and enjoyable! Good luck with your talk.

badbaldingballerina123 · 18/04/2014 17:47

I'm not sure why your telling yourself he gets self defensive when it's blatantly clear he gets angry. It sounds like this started when he reacted in anger to you wanting to freshen up , and he's been using anger to control you ever since.

Your asking how to negotiate , what phrases to use because you know he won't accept what your saying. I'm glad guiltypleasures also picked up on the wrist stiffening thing because It's truly horrible and never acceptable.

Twinklestein · 18/04/2014 17:50

He doesn't 'forget' what you like, he just doesn't care. He wants to have sex his way and if it's rough and unpleasant for you he couldn't give a stuff. He's got a taste for pesty borderline coercive sex, and tbh reading your OP made me feel sick. I don't know how you let him continue to touch you.

If you were a bloke, I don't reckon a) you would have put up with this Godawful sex for 4 years, and b) you would be analysing it on here looking for ways to 'compromise' or get therapy. You would just say 'this is shit sex, it's been shit for the entire relationship, I've tried talking and nothing changed, that's it.'

Why are you still with this man? Do you feel like it's him or nothing?

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