Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Stonewalling

70 replies

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 12:33

I posted a thread about this yesterday, but it was long and boring.
I really need help with this. My husband and I have a fighting pattern that goes with this:

  1. He neglects or criticizes me in a passive aggressive sort of way. Or he withholds affection for awhile.
  2. I pursue him and ask him what it's about.
  3. He might express his displeasure with me, and then clam up. I prod him for more.
  4. He starts to not answer me, or pretend to drift off to sleep. Or put a pillow over his head. He sits like a stone wall, not responding.
  5. I get so aggravated he is not willing to resolve the conflict that I start yelling. I yell at him repeatedly.
  6. He cuts off all communication. This last round was the worst of our marriage. He hasn't called for two days (he works away from home on the weekdays).
  7. He claims he loves me and wants to stay married, and is pissed off I keep bringing up that he wants to leave. But I just don't get why he would stay with someone he is so miserable with and not want to sleep with or be affectionate toward. My weight gain in the past few years is a real thorn in his side.
  8. He is coming home tonight (supposedly - haven't heard from him). I am sick of being the one to approach him or try to reconcile things. I fear the weekend will come and go and our problems will just continue to fester. He is a very passive individual.
What should I do?
OP posts:
Eddy99 · 18/04/2014 12:46

Jamiemars - you haven't said in any of your post what YOU want. It sounds like you are trying to suss out your dh. Be honest to yourself and decide if you want to make this work or not. My DH sounds similar to yours but I have concluded that the silent treatment is tantamount to manipulative and emotional bullying to make me feel bad - do you think that is what he is trying to do?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 13:00

When you're faced with emotionally manipulative, attention-seeking behaviour like sulking, don't reward it with attention. If he wants to waste the weekend operating a hostile silence, tell him straight that you're ignoring the play-acting and then do your own thing rather than feeling obliged to reconcile. If he says he wants to leave respond with 'close the door on your way out' rather than begging him to stay. If you've had enough of being criticised for having gained weight, tell him to leave.

It's your life. Take control.

IthoughtATMwasacashpoint · 18/04/2014 13:10

Cogito has it a nutshell. Don't pander to him, disengage and ignore

EBearhug · 18/04/2014 13:18

Stop thinking about him for a minute and think about you? What is it you want? How do you want to be treated?

If you picture your relationship in a year's time, how will it look in an ideal world? How will it look if things stay the same? What are the differences between the two?

You can't change him, but you can control your own behaviour. You know he's not going to talk to you when he puts a pillow over his head - have you ever just stopped and walked away and don't talk to him? I know the issue will still need dealing with, but yelling at him isn't likely to achieve that, so maybe leaving him and talking it over when you've both had a bit of time in different rooms will help. Do something different in that time, like some gardening or a drink with a friend or go for a swim. Just try something completely different from the silence/yelling/silence pattern for once and see how it changes things.

He may behave that way because he's no good at conflict. I was hit when I was a teenager, and it took me two decades to be able to be somewhere an argument was kicking off without getting shaky and my mouth drying up to the point I literally couldn't speak. If I was directly involved, I would feel sick and get tearful. I therefore avoided conflict at nearly all costs. Maybe your husband reacts like this in some way, so he physically can't handle it at that point? (It might not be - he might just be an emotional bully, in which case, I think you should probably not try to fix anything, as it's unlikely to work.)

If it's difficult to get a dialogue going, because he won't engage, can you write down what you need to say, and give him a letter or email that he can read when he takes the pillow off.

I don't know if any of this will work, but carrying on in the same pattern clearly isn't, so try different things - but to do that, you need to work out what you want for you, what things are good to have but not essential, and what things are essential and you can't comprise on. Things won't change overnight, whatever you do, and improvement is rarely straight forward - there will be some backward steps, but as long as there are more forward ones, you'll still progress in the right direction. And if you're not doing that, then you know it's time to cut your losses.

DocDaneeka · 18/04/2014 14:22

Cog nailed it. He wants attention and you are giving him it. He sulks because it is working.

If he starts this shit say fuck you and go out and do something g fun, or grab the remote and watch something you like. Make a low key show of enjoying the peace and quiet.

DocDaneeka · 18/04/2014 14:24

Ps if he won't say if he is coming back this weekend, don't ask, just bolt the door and put a post it note on it with the number of a local travel lodge. Or go away for a few days yourself.

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 14:31

It all started last Saturday morning. I got up, took a shower and went downstairs to get ready to take my daughter to her skating lesson. It was about 11 am and my husband was in the kitchen. Making himself a protein shake. He had just come in for a run. He said good morning to me very sarcastically and alluded that I was a loser for sleeping late. The next incident happened after I came home from grocery shopping last weekend. He threw a fit at how much I had bought and said I didn't take inventory before I left. He also yelled about me buying magic sponges because we already had two packs. I got really upset about being criticized so much. We fought a hit and the next day we talked on the phone. He told me (to summarize) he was sick of me not taking care of myself and posing weight and being unhappy, and I should be more like him ... Get hobbies and do things for myself. He also talked about compatibility and pointed out we are compatible on many ways but I just don't give a shot about the house or my appearance and he is sick of me being in a black hole.
He works away from he during the week. I have two jobs and two kids and I scramble around every Thursday night to get the laundry done and house picked up so he won't snipe at us on the weekend about us all being slobs.
The other wrk our septic broke and he screamed about that, saying we couldn't take care of the house when he was gone, and when he comes home from a hard week at work he just wants to relax.
The more I talk about this, the madder I get.
Put last communication was on Tuesday night. He stonewalled me. That is what he does when he is upset. He stonewalls. Essentially doesn't respond. I call it the turtle response. He hasn't called me in two nights, who his a record. He doesn't often work away from but he is building a house in another state. He probably won't so this again. It is kind of a fluke hing. Normally he loves at home fill time.
It took all my effort to not call him the past two lights. I am a nervous wreck. I haven't been eating or sleeping well. I look like a wreck. I have been on my iphone constantly at work, which might get me into trouble.
I don't know what to do. I love him and he has good qualities. We have been together for 18 years. He cheated on me after we had been together for two years which haunts me still. He is selfish so that makes me think he would cheat again of given the opportunity. He told me the last time he cheated had nothing to do with me. Whatever. He was 22 years old and we weren't married but did have a baby.
He is coming home tonight and I have no idea how to handle this.

OP posts:
jamiemars · 18/04/2014 14:34

Sorry about the typos. Typing on this iPhone keyboard is so difficult. Hopefully my last message is decipherable!!

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 14:36

The way to handle it is to tell him that, given that he is so dissatisfied with everything... you, the house, sponges (?), whatever.... you think it would be better if he stepped out for a while. You're unhappy, he's miserable, let's stop bringing each other down and take a break.

He may have good qualities but all I'm seeing is a bully.

MumOfTheMoos · 18/04/2014 14:53

Agree with Cog, he's a bully. For goodness sake, if he doesn't like the way you're doing the shopping he can jolly well do it himself. And as for hi. Working hard when he's away - rubbish! He may well be working hard but come the end of the day he doesn't have any responsibilities during the day, not like you!

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 15:24

Thank you. I tell him that he has no appreciation for what I do. He thinks I should quit my online teaching job to have more time to exercise and take care of the house. But we need the money. He thinks he works so much harder than I do and that I am a slob. Which is not true. I don't clean to his standards, but I do clean and constantly doing laundry. Whenever I do something big like rearrange our room and clean it thoroughly, which I did two weeks ago, he pooh poohs it as a rare event.

I am really disappointed he has such a low opinion of me. And gives me no credit for working so hard. Maybe he is just not that into me anymore.
I asked him why he would be loyal to some

OP posts:
jamiemars · 18/04/2014 15:26

Oops my last message cut off. I asked him why he would be loyal to someone he despises and he told me he took his vows and made a decision. I told him he is a martyr then. He never reassures me. He says he shouldn't have to and he is sick of me looking for reassurance. I never thought I looked for it all that often but whatever.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 15:41

Emotional abuse, psychological bullying, whatever you want to call it the classic 'method' of exerting control is

a) bring the subject down by nit-picking, criticising, setting impossible (and changing) targets, isolation (quit your job), name-calling, withdrawing affection, ridiculing ambition, sulking, alienating friends and family, monopolising time etc etc

b) Exploit the subject's insecurity, low self-esteem and lack of confidence making them eager to please, frightened to go it alone and therefore trapped

c) Augment with veiled threats... 'he took vows'... 'he made a decision'. Might also include ideas like 'it's my house/money', custody of the children.

He is loyal to someone he despises because he's put a lot of work into deliberately bringing you this low.... It's where he wants you He's a bully.

4seasons · 18/04/2014 15:53

This mans behaviour is actually making you " needy " . It is very deliberate and I'm sure makes him feel superior. He will enjoy that so will do it again and again. The solution , as others have suggested , is to stop " rewarding " him with attention . When he comes home have a list of alternatives things to do if he decides to ignore you .... go for a walk , coffee , into another room to read ..... anything which will put distance between you, but this time on your terms.

The other thing which occurred to me is ... if you are both working hard and you also have the children to take care of during the week why is it YOU who is solely responsible for the cleaning , shopping etc. ?? Whatever you do , do not give up your job . That way lies dependency and even more power for this bully of a partner. To me it would appear that, he is looking for " reasons " , however pathetic, to be unfaithful.

Star8369 · 18/04/2014 15:58

haven't you posted about him before?

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 16:23

4seasons, very interesting. Thank you for the insight. Now I am questioning why he would take please in my being needy. Yes, I do frequently feel needy. Like I will want to watch a tv show with him at night and he will start a video game or watch sports and act sulky and passive of I squalk about it.
Now that he is working away from home, his phone communication is spotty.
Sometimes it is 8 or 9 at night and I wonder why I haven't heard from him. I will call and he will say he is busy doing paperwork or cleaning or he just had to go to the lbwr yard etc.

OP posts:
jamiemars · 18/04/2014 16:24

I just joined this website yesterday. What do you mean? Is it ok to post multiple times?

OP posts:
LyndaCartersBigPants · 18/04/2014 16:25

He sounds awful, an amplified version of my ex.

If I were you (and I was) I'd LTB (I did) and you'll be much happier, probably lose weight through the stress and upheaval and al also because you will value yourself more highly without someone around dragging you down (I did).

You might also go on to meet someone lovely who appreciates you and who doesn't hold you to impossible standards (I did).

If short, if your not happy (and why would you be living with an arse) then change it. Sounds simplistic, but life is short, don't spend it being miserable.

LyndaCartersBigPants · 18/04/2014 16:25

If you're not happy*

CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 16:38

I think someone was saying that the story sounded familiar and wondered if you'd posted about your husband before. If not, the reason it probably sounds familiar is that emotionally abusive behaviour is depressingly common and tends to follow some well-known patterns.

He takes pleasure in you being needy because it puts him in control.

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 16:50

Oh ok thank you Cogito.
I really don't know whether I should initiate a talk with him or what. If I contact him or approach him I feel like I am chasing after him. This does often truly feel like a hide and seek game, pursuer and pursuee.
I suspect he will come home late tonight. I have to bring my daughter to dentist and skate lesson tomorrow. He might possibly text me and ask when is her skate lesson because he likes to attend. I will be in angst over whether I should respond but I will probably respond and tell him the time. Then he will show up and we will just sit there like two lumps on a log. If I try to talk to him he will get up walk away a few steps. Then I am the pursuer. I either pursue or nothing get resolved. He might tell me he is sick of me talking to him like that and if I yell at him he won t call or respond. He might reason that he is justified in not contacting me because he doesn't want to put up with that abuse. And he is fed up with me.
He is so childish.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 17:10

Don't pursue, reject. You're still second-guessing him at the moment and that's how he stays in control of you. Will I talk to him? How will he respond? He might reason this.... He might be fed up with me.... etc. All the time you are frightened that he is going to tell you he's leaving, you are on the back foot. You have to stop caring about what he wants, stop thinking about his reaction, and put yourself well and truly first.

You say you're a teacher. This man is not one of your students. You're under no obligation to find out what's going on in his head and include him in what's happening. It's not your responsibility to cheer him up or fix him. You don't achieve a better life for yourself by being a better wife.

If I was in your situation I'd be making plans for independence. See a lawyer, look at some different homes, split the finances etc. Not necessarily because I think you should Leave The Bastard (LTB) straight away but because I think you need to start making yourself centre of your world and not him. I think you need to know that there are alternatives and that you have options.

EBearhug · 18/04/2014 17:13

But it sounds like it's not getting resolved even when you do pursue him. It is still all about him, not you. Work out what you want, tell him.

Don't expect him just to change his behaviour. He may be aware you are fed up with him, but it's not really a problem to him - he's still got a home to come home to, and he can cut you out when he doesn't want to talk, whether he's doing it deliberately or because he just hasn't learnt how to handle it. He can get away with behaving like this because you are letting him. You can control how you behave and react to him. If you don't want to sit with him not talking, tell him you don't want him to attend the skating lesson. It's probably not going to be pleasant, but then it's not pleasant anyway, so in that sense, nothing changes - but if you are responding differently, that may change some things with him.

jamiemars · 18/04/2014 17:21

Cogito,
Wow, great post, thank you for that lift. You are right. Part of my insecurity is not feeling like I can survive without him. I am very against divorce and splitting up families. But he is pretty hard to live with.
I teach online part time and then I also have an office job during the week. I am sitting in a gray cubicle right now. I am not able to concentrate today so I am on my damn phone.
Even though my teaching job is a big time suck,
I don't want to quit. It. Gives me extra money and I do enjoy it to some extent. I am good at it, and that
counts for something I suppose.
If my husband posted about me on this forum someone might give him the same advice you gave me.
I am deathly afraid he wants to leave me and I keep questioning that even though he is sick of saying it is not true. He is annoyed by my questioning him. But it just does not make sense to me. All the factors are in place for the perfect storm. No sex, belittling, stonewalling, disgust and disdain. Disapproval. He is fit and healthy and I am not.
I just am beside myself with angst today. I appreciate your support and smart advice.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/04/2014 17:25

Why 'deathly afraid'? What is it about life as an independent woman that worries you so much? If you're against divorce do you regard it as shameful or sinful? Do you think single women are to be pitied? Would you regard yourself as a failure to be a divorcee? Is it the financial side of things that is a concern? Do you fear loneliness.... would you rather be in a bad marriage than be alone?

I'm just seeing someone who, the longer they stick around to be insulted, the lower their self-esteem is getting and the more they are trapped by their own fears. Work out what it is that is keeping you where you are and work out what is preventing you from striking out.