I'm still so very angry, but I'm supposed to be grateful. Should I be?

[NeedToMovePassedThis]

The background is that I fell in stupid-teen love at the age of 17 with a 21 year old. He proposed, I said yes, then (very accidentally) got pregnant. I had never wanted dcs. Not ever. And had always thought I would have an abortion in these circumstances. But I found I couldn't. That I loved my dc. My fiancé encouraged me to keep the baby. I still lived at home (halfway through my straight-A-Student A levels).

I told my dm and ddad and they were shocked, upset and encouraged me to have an abortion. I stuck by my decision. A week after finding out my fiancé dumped me (charmer that he was, that's a whole other thread), told me he doubted the baby was his, and that was the last I ever saw of him.

My parents let me stay at home. Which I am grateful for. I paid them rent. They said very firmly that they would look after me, but not the baby. Which is fair enough.

I left my A levels, dm and ddad said I couldn't live there if I wasn't studying or had a job. I applied for work. Went through a few humiliating interviews as the visibly pregnant teen (unsurprisingly didn't get the jobs), and then found a free secretarial course to do, so did that until the week before ds was born.

Dm and ddad made it clear they were ashamed of me. They made lots of snide comments, told me how many of their friends had told them to kick me out, would say things like, "so and so looked at me funny today, that was because of you".

I knew they found it hard so didn't say anything.

I couldn't cope with the smell of smoke, but ddad insisted that if I opened the chimney up all the heat went out, so he'd close it down to have smoke billowing into the room. So I couldn't sit with them. My room had no heating, so I'd try to stay warm in bed.

When I was 8 and a half months pregnant we went to a party as a family. Me and my younger brother wanted to leave early (about 1am) as we were exhausted. It was only a 20 minute walk home, but it was too far for me with SPD. Ddad said he'd drive us back. He was hammered. I couldn't argue, but said I would drive us there and he could drive back. He wouldn't give me the keys.

He then drive me and dbro home. He sped, he turned corners sharply whilst laughing, he kept slamming on the brakes because I was screaming for him to stop. I was terrified. I got out of the car and he sped off. I just burst into to tears and said to dbro that he would never drive another heavily pregnant woman like that :(

Then ds was born and he was my whole world. I'd never had someone to love like that, I'd never felt loved. It was hard. I was alone. All my friends had just gone off to uni. I did all the nights alone. Ds wouldn't breast feed and I desperately wanted him to. Dm went on and on about how important it was (he had no sucking reflex at all), I expressed for as long as I could but he never ever latched on. At 3 months a bfing counsellor came out and just said "you have no milk, he has no urge, you know this, why am I here?" Then she clicked and said, "ah, you want me to tell your mother, don't you?" And she did. Because dm didn't believe I couldn't.

I did all the night feeds. All of them. They would hold him so I could have a bath if they were in.

I was also a teenager who definitely didn't help around the house as much as I should have. Looking back I think they expected me to be cooking and cleaning straight away, and I didn't do much. I helped where I could. But there was so much, and they never asked me to do anything. But as an adult, with distance, it's clear I wasn't meeting expectations.

I became very lonely and depressed. There were no groups for teen parents, and I couldn't bring myself to go to baby groups. I knew what people thought of me. They thought what my parents thought. That I was scum.

I had one aim. Go back to college, finish a levels, get to uni. Then they will be proud. So I did. When ds was a few months old I got him into a nursery and went to college. College were brilliant and I could even bring ds if I couldn't afford the childcare. dm looked after him one day a week.

I paid rent with the benefits I received. My parents told me how proud they were of my older sister for not going on benefits when she was between jobs.

I got good a levels. I got into a Russell group uni, and ds and I moved 300 miles away.

Now here's the thing. Whilst I was there my aunt complimented my dm on how well she was raising ds in front of me . Dm took the compliment. I always get comments about how amazing and supportive my parents were. And how lucky I was. And it brings out this enormous anger. They were horrible! They made me feel like shit. I was so ashamed of who I was. I spent the first 9 months of ds's life waking up crying because I wished I'd died in the night. I told dm I thought I needed ADs. She didn't believe in ADs :( so I never went to the gp. She booked me a homeopathy appointment, gave me a load of scare stories about ADs and that was it.

I've always suffered from anxiety. I tried to kill myself when I was 11. Walked out into a lake and lay in it face down. But then pictured my dm finding me, and couldn't make her sad. So went home. No one noticed I was soaked. No one spoke to me.

But now I am in a good place. After the clichéd first abusive marriage that I escaped after 15 years, I now have a wonderful, kind dh. I have 3 beautiful dcs. I have a wonderful lifestyle. My parents are brilliant with the gcs. Although it cut me deeply when dbro and his wife moved in with them for 6 months when their ds2 was born, and I found out they helped with night feeds, they lived there rent free (despite earning 80k+) and no one made any comments about how dsil wasn't really parenting her dcs.

So how do I get rid of this anger? Am I right to be angry? Do I have that right? They didn't throw me out. Everyone says how amazing they are. No one ever compliments me on my parenting. They'll tell me how lucky I am to have such easy, nice dcs ( because that just happened by accident and they're in no way normal children).

I feel like this is holding me back from enjoying my parents as they now are. I feel history has been rewritten. I was alone so much as a child. I was bullied physically and emotionally by my older sister (locked me in sheds tied up for hours, tried to drown me, beat me, loads and loads of nasty things). We now get on ok, but she is snide and cutting towards me a lot.

The couple of times I've tried to speak to family about it, dbro for example, they leap straight to how much I owe my parents. Although he did remember the drink driving and said that was out of order.

If I spoke to dm she would sob and say I think she's terrible and I would end up comforting her. The one time I tried to talk to them about dsis's bullying, dm just looked at ddad and said, "that always really upset you, ddad, didn't it?" And no one acknowledged my hurt at all. They just said it was normal sibling rivalry.

Sorry about the essay. But... Help. Please.

Help me move on.

Susan forward yes, I downloaded it onto my phone and it was quite helpful.

Nettle, I got told I had a huge chip on my shoulder because I believed women should be paid the same as men. Dh thinks they want to do well but can be very selfish. They like dh a lot, although they can be quite patronising towards him.

I have a very strong sense of right and wrong and believe in confronting issues and resolving them. They believe in brushing things under the carpet and not rocking the boat.

Dsis once told me she wouldn't get caught in maudlin anniversaries like me, that was just the type of person I am, with regards to having a missed mc at 14 weeks.

I know I married XH to try to wipe out their shame. We nearly split up after a month after he was nasty on a night out. I was in a car with XH and ddad, and I was being snippy. XH got out to get something from a shop and ddad told me if I wasn't careful I'd lose him.

I believed no one else would want me.

This was not true.

Once before a date when I was 16, ddad gave me the shocking advice that because I had agreed to go out with this man (a complete stranger to ddad), that it was my duty to stay with him all evening no matter whether I wanted to or not.

:/

I think you should approach this from a perspective (with them) of thinking 'what do the add to my life?' Every time there is an event think 'of what benefit is this to me?' You have to be very selfish about it because these people are minded to hurt you not help you and you need to protect yourself from them.

I've gotten more assertive about saying what I want. At my dc's school concert last year, dm and ddad wanted me to give up my seat for some strangers sat at the back. I'd got there half an hour early so I could watch dc being the narrator, and she wanted us all to move to make space and be "good" and "generous". (I'd saved them seats too). I refused to move saying that I wanted to see ds and I had as much right to a good seat as anyone else.

They would always do this to us as dcs. I once was in a competition at a silly event. I came joint first with a boy 5 years older than me. I was so proud. There was a decider. Ddad told me to lose as the other boy really wanted to win. I was about 8. I lost. Not on purpose, but I wasn't happy about winning anymore. So many stupid memories.

Jesus christ! Why are you still speaking to these hideous people?

What do they add is exactly the right thing to think here!

My love, they are bloody awful parents, and their snipes and jibes could have destroyed you, but thank god they haven't.

I know with my lot, as I went through the beginning of therapy, I wondered how on earth I was ever related to these people, as morally we're pole apart. They just treat me like I have no reason to expect kindness, support, empathy or respect.

I'm NC with them all now, it's sad, but my life is WAY better without them in it.

Hissy, they are good too. Dm drove a 10 hour round trip to help with the dcs when they had chicken pox and I needed to work. I've always known that if I call them day or night, they would come running to help. They really would.

I just think they were shocking at raising me. And I could cope with that if other people didn't compliment them.

I've never achieved my potential. I was by far the most academic child. I loved school. Loved maths. Always wanted to build robots. When I asked for career advice, I got shrugs. Looking back, why didn't anyone point out engineering?! I would have loved it. Instead I went down the arts route. Stupid me. But where was the guidance.

I was so very desperate for love. I looked for it in the wrong places. Ds gave me a reason to keep going. I used to think I'd be dead without him.

They are brilliant with my dcs, although of course dbro now gets all the childcare, but they will babysit if I ask.

Dsis will joke to me that dsil is the favourite daughter. And it's not really a joke. Dsil is lovely and very successful, but has had complete support from them since day one and has never had to struggle alone. I recently moved back near them after 15 years away. I can't rely on them for childcare because they "forget" to turn up on occasion.

I know they're not reliable. I know they care. I know the most important thing to them is people thinking they are good.

I honestly think they would be mortified to find out i feel this way. Dm did need reassuring when I started therapy that it wasn't talking about my terrible childhood. I think she knows I think I had one. I also had a brilliant childhood. Complete freedom and incredible adventures, but I was lonely and bullied and depressed from 11. Sexually assaulted shortly afterwards. My parents were brilliant. For one day. They supported me and cried and said they'd kill them if they caught them. And then it was never mentioned again.

There's a fabulous book called 'When will I be good enough' - read it, you will get some real lightbulb moments and it also gives great options as to how to deal with these situations going forward.
I have experience in what you've been through myself and this book really helped me understand what happened enough to be able to deal with bits in my head.
I would second the counselling too, mine has been a life saver in helping me work through everything.

I am so sorry to hear of all you've been through - you are amazing though, you've turned your life around single handedly and have more strength of character in your little finger than any of your family!

Scarlotti, I don't feel strong. That book sounds very apt. I shall give it a go.

oh, but you ARE strong. Look what you have achieved, and where you are DESPITE your family, not because of them.

Do you still live near them?

They were awful to you. You have accepted and faced that and outwardly moved on because its easier. And now you are trying to make sense of it. You won't easily, because you aren't like that so you flounder about trying to find a way to make it acceptable and understandable. Its hard but they won't apologise and treat you nicely unless it suits them.

Stop giving them the opportunity to mess you up. No more birthday teas and carry on and do your thing if they are late. Leave a note you'll be at the park or whatever. Its all about control and power. Take some back. Your dh and dc sound lovely, btw.

Its not you though, its them. What are your inlaws like?

The stately homes thread is really useful, and helpful.

You have every right to be angry.

You really do.

It's complex isnt it? they -can- be very nice and supportive at times, and ruthlessly unkind, even cruel, at others (the car journey, telling you to loose the competition).

All your feelings are valid - I'm not sure you really believe that. But they are. What you do with them is difficult.

Therapy should help. Is your post here as a result of thinking things out in therapy? I hope you have a good therapist, one you click with and also one who can challenge you to an appropriate degree. Not more than you can bear, but getting you to face the very difficult things you've had to live through and how they make you feel now.

Can she also give you hints on how to handle the anger when you feel it? It can be so difficult to handle when you're consumed with fury. Exercise, running or swimming or the gym, can help to some degree. Even blitzing the house. Also, really importantly can you talk to your lovely husband? Can you write it down, maybe even write (unsent) letters to them telling them how they have made you feel and how angry and hurt you are?

From what you've written it sounds like it would be impossible to go low contact or no contact. How much contact do you actualy want? Simply and purely -want- for you yourself, without obligation? given that they are never going to apologise for being such shits. They are really unlikely to and I think you have to face that.

The stately homes thread here can be really good and maybe it could help you.

Take care.

Do get the book, it's by Karyl McBride and is called 'Will I ever be good enough'

Take care

I know they care. I know the most important thing to them is people thinking they are good.

They do care ... about how they are perceived by others. I don't think they care very much about you though. Sorry.

Hiya, I'm sorry to hear all that has gone on and how you are feeling so upset about it all. I agree with everyone else that you are right to feel this way and that what happened to you and seems to be still happening, is wrong.

I'm another one who had the same.

My advice is same as someone above said....get space for yourself. Actually I'll come out and say I advise on this sort of thing for a living, and it seems you are being minimised and blamed and things are being denied. Therein lies a recipe for madness.

So keep a distance, guarded by you. They will ring and try to be normal, despite what they see under their nose ie the truth, but you must guard your safety from them.

Don't speak to them about it. It won't change. It will be an exercise in you being told why you are wrong. An emotional abuse exercise, so don't allow it, bearing in mind they would like it.

I also would like to say that you sound fantastic, just the sort of girl I would have been friends with. What you went thro to raise your baby is amazing.

What is your dream job?

I would like to say that when I finally went no contact with my parents, like other say it hurt like buggery. I think the worst thing was that the wrong remained un righted, and I walked away from ever getting it righted, which made me wonder if I was still wrong.

Anyway alongside living with that sadness, what started was new growth. It was like as a teenager, I had finally cut the ties loose and was out in the world, as appropriate, to make my own way,me never have I felt so alive, done the things that mattered to me, made my own decisions etc, all for the best and all leading to huge personal happiness and fulfilment.

That's the other side of reducing contact; it is so unbelievably freeing. I urge you to take the things you think you missed out on and scrabble them back. Your children are older right? So study. Claim back what you lost. Without your family whispering poison and failure in your ear.

It is very sad to accept the truth, but it is also clean blood and allows a person to move on. I'd expect if I were you, a time of tears and rage and loss and struggle, interspersed and increasingly shot through with life and plans and acceptance, and a greater peace xxxx

One last thing.

That peace will spread out as the anger fades, and your whole life will be different and never go back. The balance of power in your family will alter forever and that is a feeling nothing can match. It doesn't hurt forever you see. You finally get to be free of it.

OP: I had treatment from an Holistic Hypnotherapist in the Manchester area who was recommended to me by a wonderful woman who had been brought up in care and dispite it all she had taken herself off to Uni and now has a good career.

You do have to be motivated to do it, as after a couple of appointments you are given a 30 minute CD and you need replay it most days.
The anger is 'embedded' in your body and you will feel it being released.

It's not expensive because it's not constant appointments.

It's not an overnight quick fix. It will take a few months.
But it does work.

Best wishes to you.

I am proud of you. I can see YOU have raised your children very well, not just alone but with obstacles deliberately put in the way. I would be telling your family exactly what went on and then walk away without looking back. This has made me so angry that people can be abusive like this and get away with it. They are horrible people and I would not tolerate them in my life. I will never see my mother again though she is another who thinks she did everything for me and I would want to tell her she is talking crap.

Just like to say that you sound brilliant My sister had her first child at 14 and I cannot imagine how she would have coped in your circumstances (14 isn't so different from 17).
It is very much your dm and ddad's loss for not seeing how well you've done. Sounds like you have been lucky in that you have managed to become a good person out of a bad family (iyswim). So many people (your dsis maybe?) end up following in their footsteps.

I would advise NC but I've already seen that's not possible so yes what other people have said, mentally distance yourself as much as possible. Don't try to reason with them because they are entirely unreasonable people.

Do be on your guard for the dc, though. My Dm was raised mostly by her mother. Who was abusive (psychologically and physically). She is still a bully is even a bully to her GC. I hated visiting her. When I became old enough (teens) to understand what she had done to my mother and siblings tbh I resented that I had been exposed to such an awful woman. I still see her now. I won't do when I am living away from parents.

You are all so very kind.

I am unable to process them as toxic. Ddad certainly has toxic traits, and I did fall out with him recently after he was incredibly dismissive of a (correct) view I expressed in front of extended family. He basically laughed at me and told me I was wrong and then got angry with me when I explained it (a subject I know a lot more about). There was another incident a couple of years ago after dh asked his permission to ask me to marry him. Ddad told him he had it but that I'd probably say no. Dh made the terrible mistake of then asking me in front of them. I of course said yes. Dm blustered that she shouldn't be there because I would feel pressured to say yes, and then after I had said yes, put the ring on, and hugged dh, ddad gave a lecture about how it was too soon and there was no need to hurry and that I must think things through. Basically pissed all over it. I was devastated. Dh hadn't realised at that point quite what they were like, and had wanted to propose in front of my family and the dcs (after asking ds's permission too).

I stopped talking to ddad for a couple of weeks after that. Got regular phonecalls from dm telling me how sorry he was and how shocked they had been and how happy they were. And how he had only meant to help. I'm in my late 30s FFS. I told her I would calm down. It would pass. But I was very upset that they had ruined my proposal. Ddad did apologise too later on. And we got past it. But thinking about that moment still makes me want to sob. Dh going down on one knee and me thinking "oh god no! Not now! They'll say something!" And this shock going through me that I knew what was coming. And I wished more than anything that it wasn't there.

Dh feels so guilty for ruining it. It's not his fault. He doesn't understand how they think of me.

See, they are not ready to let you grow up. They ruined what should have been one of the happiest times of your life.

They are not 100% bad! but there is an I appropriateness! and they are not resolving it! even tho they are the adults.

Backing off will allow you to cut the apron strings which should have been cut years ago, and give you space to be your own adult, away from their disapproval and power games and also....hugely....their opinion of you which colours life for the worse.

Can you afford counselling? Is there a free service in your borough, or a reduced fee one?

I sense you are very embroiled with them, understandably so, but it means you are at the whim of how they see life and how they see you. And that's not right for you as a woman.

I think as well, why reassure your mother that you will calm down and it will pass? They pissed on your chips. They deserve to know. It's alright that they knew you think less of them and their behaviour than they do, and it's alright if they tell lies to people which you slowly counter, if you feel you want to. In the end you deserve to be yourself, and for many of us that involves changing relations with people around whom we can't be ourselves. The need to be free eventually outrides the need for parental approval I promise....

I reassured her so that they'd leave me alone.

Dh wants to talk to them. It's a bad idea. Dm would cry, ddad would be angry that dm was upset, dsis would say that I have to get over it (she told me last week, jokingly I think, that she would teach her dd to be the bully and never the victim. It made me shudder), dbro would say we all remember things differently and he's sorry I hurt, but that it wasn't intentional and I'll have to move past it.

Dh wants to propose again. I think it would be nice to have a nice proposal to remember. All I ever wanted was him and me alone (it could be in a car park for all I care), deciding to spend forever together.

I only have one more free counselling session. It's mostly been to do with XH, but we have spoken about my family too. She is good and doesn't let me shrug things off. I have written letters which did help. But I'm still so angry.

I love birthdays. I love big birthdays. But I have now told my family that I'm too old for birthdays, and they don't need to do anything or get me anything. That way I'm not disappointed when they buy me a tshirt and dbro a boat (slight exaggeration for dramatic effect). It did help, but then they got round that by being an hour and a half late. Next year I'll say I'm not doing anything at all. No cake. Nothing.

I need techniques for distancing myself. Dh and I recently signed up for a class together at dm's insistence. She said she'd babysit every Tuesday for 2 hours. The first 3 weeks were great (although I did have to call to remind her the first week , and she had the time wrong, and had agreed to look after dbro's dcs that day so made a big fuss of rearranging it all, but we made it), then she cancelled the next one (which was fine), then she forgot the one after that and was uncontactable, then we went to the next one, then the next two she couldn't do, and we cancelled the last one because by then we were so far behind. We'd paid for it all up front.

She has offered to have the dcs for a day a week when I go back to work After leave. She looks after dbro's lot and dsis's dd. But I know I could never rely on it. She would always be late, or forget, or accidentally agree to have dbro's dcs too on that day.

Please, please, please get proper childcare? Pay for it! Get a sitter for your course and don't rely on her.

Mark my words, she will start making little comments to your dc about how rubbish/silly/stupid you are, and how wonderful she is.

Please stop giving her access to your life.

Remember that abusers aren't nasty all the time, otherwise they'd lose their victims in a heartbeat, they have to be nice sometimes to keep you hooked and coming back for more.

Oh op your post made me cry

No real advice as such but I'm sure you've had plenty from other wise posters. But I just wanted to say I think you are amazing