husband very angry

[sofj]

My husband is angry a lot of the time, he says that having children is just drudgery and that he could have had such a better and more fulfilling life without them. He makes me feel guilty and stupid for saying that I prefer my life with the kids. He's just booked a surprise trip away for my birthday for 3 nights and when I said 'wow 3 nights', he got really angry and said I was pathetic and why wouldn't I want to go away for 3 nights. It's not that I don't want to but if I'm completely honest when it's bank holiday weekend on an ideal world I'd love us to be a happy family family spending time together. We've got two boys that are 6 and 4. Sometimes his aggression is exhausting, but then he can be lovely and caring again. The boys love him and so do I but I'm scared that this can never have a happy ending.

I think you're reading a lot into that Ghetto that possibly isn't there. The op has mentioned in her op that she was surprised and needed to get her head around it. Yes it probably was a bit deflating for him when he's obviously put quite a bit of effort in, but equally he seems to have missed that the woman he lives with really enjoys being with her children and that three days away is a real wrench for her.

If he is aggressive it is little wonder she does not want to spend time with him.

If he is frustrated and inarticulate as opposed to aggressive then that is an issue for both of them in the relationship.

We don't know enough from the very brief op to be able to make some or the sweeping judgements present on this thread from multiple posters.

He sounds like a controlling ass. If he finds family life so dull than I would suggest he leaves, you would be better off without someone in your life who doesn't belittle you.

She says "sometimes his aggression is exhausting". So there could be more. This may be the tip of an iceberg, so commenting on the fact that she doesn't appear to fancy three nights away on her own with a potentially aggressive and angry man is barking up the wrong tree.

We don't have all the information, and it is concerning that any man could seem to wish that his children had not been born. I hope he never utters such a thing in front of them.

He sounds like a controlling ass.

This.

I am very wary of surprise trips. They are actually controlling, as the other person cannot actually say no for whatever reason.
I don't like to do this to other people.

In this case, all he had to do was to convince her nicely. Getting angry is a very bad sign.

I would like to know more about this anger and how it manifests. I don't think the OP has gone into detail about that though she said sometimes his aggression was exhausting. Is it just that he feels very strongly about this one issue about couple v family time and gets aerated about that when it comes up and sticks to his guns. Or is it constant shouting , moody silences or slamming doors or worse ? If he is just really fed up about the first issue then I can kinda see Ghettos point if it's the latter am with the rest of you.

"The rampant man hating that goes on, on Mumsnet really stinks."

You're quite wrong. No-one hates men. But people (male or female) that are 'angry a lot of the time' are unpleasant to live with and often bullies. I don't think anyone likes people like that do they? Do you?

Thanks everyone, all of your comments are so useful. I think there are quite a few issues beyond this weekend that we need to sort, I can't be on eggshells with my partner my whole life, but I do need to learn to let go and think about our relationship too. I think he does really miss the adult time that we used to have and it is hard with the kids sometimes, but it frustrates me that he can't just relax and enjoy it rather than whinging about how hard it is. I don't want my time with them to be ruined by someone trying to suck the joy out of every moment by saying how hard kids are, everyone knows that, but it's taking away from how much fun they can be too, and anyway we've got them now so why not just relax and enjoy it rather than go on about hard it is.
Saying that, I do think that people have a point that it is important to have adult time. If I'm honest I think the more he insists on it and goes on about how hard it is with the kids, the more I want to be with them, almost to defend them. I think I might do that to the detriment of our relationship sometimes. He's apologised this morning for being angry and we've decided it might be better timing wise just to go for two nights which works so much better for me. When he's reasonable and we talk about it it works brilliantly, but when I feel cornered I feel like telling him to just leave me with the kids so that I can at least enjoy my time with them.

I'm going to reserve judgement until the op elaborates.

X-post!

I'm not surprised that you don't feel warm and fuzzy towards someone who seems to regard his own DCs - your DCs - as an inconvenient imposition. We all have a moan from time to time but most of us are grown-up enough to know that childhood isn't for ever, there are some sacrifices worth making, a balance to be struck, and we'll miss them when they're gone.

It's important to have adult time but that relies on everyone involved actually being an adult.... not an overgrown whining brat and certainly not someone who is 'angry all the time'.

You should never be in a situation with your own spouse where you feel 'cornered'... never.

"I think there are quite a few issues beyond this weekend that we need to sort, I can't be on eggshells with my partner my whole life, but I do need to learn to let go and think about our relationship too"

Do you feel like you are walking on eggshells sometimes?.

Is he really thinking about this relationship as well or is he really thinking about his wants and needs alone?.

Why do you think he is angry a lot of the time and who is he being angry at?. What is he like towards people in the outside world, does he get as angry with them as well?

I would think as well you do most of the childcare already. Why did he have children at all?.

Yes it is important to have adult time, of course it is, but the ways in which your H criticised you for a decision that he solely made and expected you to fall in with as a result was wrong on so many levels.

This was really never about the weekend away at all, this is far bigger than a weekend away and a couple of nights away does not even begin to even scratch the surface of his aggression and anger.

What do you think you are both teaching your children about relationships here?.

Buffy I absolutely agree but I wasn't suggesting it was maybe a one off mood or rant or whatever , just was trying to clarify whether it was every time that one particular subject came up or was it about other things aswell. But mainly whether it was the odd raised voice or much more frequent and worse than that.
My DH turns into chest beating macho man when he is a passenger in my car. He could always do better/have done it differently/gone a quicker way/queries why I'm indicating /acknowledging uneccessarily etc etc. I handle it by telling him to stfu and/or would he like to get out and walk which usually does the trick give or take a few more mumbles.

So I wouldn't dream of leaving him over that as it is just one flaw amongst all his lovely traits and otherwise goodeggishness. BUT if he was like this about other things too or just generally critical of me or carried it on or escalated it when we got home (he doesn't he admits he is a bad passenger) then I would consider it a dealbreaker or at least a real problem in our relationship.

......and failing that there's always gaffa tape

sofj interesting , your point about the more he moans about the kids , the more you want to spend time with them and almost as if to defend them. That is a common phenomena in step families where the more the stepparent complains about any negatives relating to DCs (bad behaviour/expense whatever) or that he/she wants more time with their partner/spouse without the DCs , then the more defensive and indulgent the parent gets and in turn the more resentful the step parent gets.

But with joint parents it is unusual in that you both would normally unconditionally love your DCs and never resent their presence , let alone their very existence

When he's reasonable and we talk about it it works brilliantly, but when I feel cornered I feel like telling him to just leave me with the kids so that I can at least enjoy my time with them.

I think this is quite important. I hope he realises it.

i think if you all love each other, then its worth working at the relationship.

Does he get to enjoy the kids?

I also find parenting really hard, and absolutely crave time with my partner as a couple, and if he never wanted that, id be very hurt and worried for the relationship.

when you say he gets angry and aggressive, can you expand on that?
It sounds like he has compromised now.

OP, I think the second para of your second post deonstrates why counseling might help - a safe and mediated space to explain and break that cycle that you arte in. I am not at all surprised that the more he tries to persuade you the more you run - and from his pov he maybe thinks all he has to do is work harder at persuading you and that this demnonstrates his committment to you!

On the other hand, you do need to know that he is genuinely able to see things from your pov, support the family vibe a a whole and enjoy his kids.

Maybe he would do that more, and feel less swamped by kids and kid-life, if he had some relaxation with you as a partner.

But you need to be sure that he is not fundementally controlling and angry.

Couple counselling could help determone that, or improve communication between you so that everyone's needs are met.

Manchild.

"Oh, I can't do what I waaaaant now. I'm not the baby any more. The, er, babies are your priority. How dare you?"

Either the communication gets better or you'll find your lives going off in different directions. It's a hard adjustment, having children and prioritising them always, but it's not ^that^ hard. After all, you have to manage it...

Booking a trip away without kids doesn't on the face of it seem a particularly bad thing to do. People have breaks without their kids all the time. It sounds like he wants to spend time with you alone, which is kind of what a lot of relationship therapists would recommend if you are having problems.

Your response "Wow, 3 nights" is quite passive aggressive yourself, and must have felt like a real kick in the teeth for him. You could always book your holiday yourself if you don't like what someone else does?

If he has anger management issues then that's a different matter, but you seem to have some passive aggressive traits and he actually sounds like he's struggling in the relationship. You sound like you don't like him very much and don't want to spend time alone with him, which must be hard to live with.

If it were him, I would wonder what I would be getting out of this relationship. Sorry!

How passive aggressive the 3 night comment was depends on tone of voice.

I do think that surprise trips can be quite controlling.

Gosh yes, forget the aggression. The important thing to focus on here is that the op might be a bit passive aggressive.

I bet the poor man can't do right for doing wrong.

I feel like pretty much everyone has hit the nail on the head so many times through this thread, it's been pretty amazing to be honest. Yes he's too aggressive and he needs to grow up and get to grips with parenthood, but yes I also need to stop being passive aggressive and just spit it out. It's true that his feelings towards parenthood have made me retreat and want to spend less time with him, actually I've said to him, 'why don't you just leave if you're so unhappy?', and sometimes I have meant it. Overall I don't want him to but I don't know how he can stay if he's as unhappy as he says. I do worry that over time his feelings will be picked up by the children which makes me angry and protective. I know he loves us, and we all want and need him so much, but fundamentally I don't think he likes family life no matter how it's presented. I think if I could spend more time working on our relationship maybe that would help, but I don't want to do that at the detriment of the kids. Some counseling or similar could maybe help. Thanks everyone that's taken the time to help.

its good for your kids for you and your partner to have a strong relationship together. The children are important but it sounds like you really need to bond together again.
a few nights away from the kids as a loving couple and having fun will make all the difference.
Hes telling you loud and clear that he misses you, and hes trying to get you back as his partner and lover. The roles of good mother and a partner/lover are not mutually exclusive. Its what gets most people through the difficult parenting years and what keeps you warm when the children have grown up and left home