DP finance mess - am i also to blame and how do you get the trust back?

[foolforlove]

Medium term lurker, first time posting. Will try not to drip feed. apologies that it is so long.

DP and I have been together 3 years. 18 month old DD. Engaged and pregnant within the first year - all planned and very happy. Whilst on maternity leave (about a year ago) we saw a financial planner and sorted through everything - a bit like doing a finance MOT.

We sorted insurance, pension, did finance risk assessments, got everything on the table. I have a savings personality (my dad was rubbish with money growing up, got into massive debt, hid it from my mum and the bank took the house when I was a teenager). I vowed never to lose control of my finances. DP has a spending personality (mostly because he used to work in roles with decent commissions - so if he got into debt - he'd have cash to pay it off later)

we have a joint account that wages go into and separate credit cards as well. I always pay off my credit card. It came out he had about 10,000 in credit card debt. Financial adviser suggested using some of my savings to clear the debts. I transferred money to make it happen. We're a team, right?

Fastforward 6-12 months and I'm more and more aware we don't seem to be saving any money, going backward actually even with me back at work FT. And also that we are living a bit too extravagantly. everything from nights out - to stupid investments on part shares in race horses (and we don't have that sort of money - more like 500 pounds for a 1% share). Yes we are idiots.

I finally sit down and go through one months worth of spend - every detail. I'm horrified to realise not only do we get through all our wages but we overspend by about 20%. And there's a transfer that came out of our savings for another 2500 for racing on top of that.

We sit down and go through it - and it comes out that it's not just money from the current account that we're going through. The credit card debt is still 10,000. racked up again and he's taken a personal loan out to pay it off. the racing transfer was a mistake - meant to be 250 and will be transferred back. i feel sick about it but also feel like i am to blame also - i was enjoying the extravagance too and not delving into it. he'd even mentioned consolidating the cards into a personal loan and I was so wrapped up in work and DD that I just didn't get into the detail.

it's 3 weeks on and i can't shake the feeling/haven't been able to have the big confrontation that i know i need to have. to get to the point to take out a personal loan - he must have been chased by credit card companies for months - which meant he hid that from me. he ripped up and put a statement from one of his credit card companies straight in the bin the same day it all came out and told me later it was just a final statement on the transfer. I don't believe him. And the racing transfer hasn't come back into our account yet.

We fought about it a week or so ago and he accused me of not trusting him and believing he was a liar. I said it was about transparency and moving forward. He sent me a screen grab of his total bank accounts and I saw that the total amount owing was more like 15K.

He's given me his last credit card and his current account card. I've done a strict budget that he's keeping to and only giving him small amounts of cash. He's on board with it all and feeling really positive and you can see he's actually happier.

But I can't shake the feeling that there is still more to come. He believes he's being transparent. I want access to his passwords/bank accounts and statements. If we budget properly we can pay it off over time. (a lot of time) But I'm scared it will get worse if I don't take control now.

Am I just being a fool? I can focus on the sorting the money bit but I'm lost on how to sort the relationship. I thought we had a strong partnership where we were open with each other. Now I don't trust him and feel like I'm hiding from a proper confrontation about it. Everything else about our relationship is great - but at the same time, it can't be if he was hiding this can it?

Are you prepared to spend the rest of your days policing his every move, giving him pocket money and waiting for him to sign up for more secret credit cards which you are meant to sort out.

I would completely financially untangle yourself from him immediately. You need to stop sorting out his money, stop giving him a penny and let him resolve this alone. I don't think he ever will, he won't be honest with himself so he will never give you the truth.

Is this how you want to live your life?

He needs to change rather than you giving him pocket money and policing his finances. You will eventually lose respect for him

x post lavender

we all are saying exactly the same thing aren't we?

Sorry if I've missed it but do you rent or own a house together. If you're planning to get married & have a child I assume you live together? If he doesn't sort his act out pronto, he is going to end up repossessed as he will not be able to afford to pay the rent/mortgage. I wouldn't put my name on a financial agreement with someone like this. I work in the mortgage industry & see first hand exactly what happens to people like this, it's not good. Sorry.

it probably doesn't seem as serious to him as it should

But you can see his point, can't you? Life seems to tell him that somehow, whatever happens, he gets bailed out.

And make sure you get what you gave him initially back. You are not even married. Which is good because you are not legally responsible for any debt by him, but it also means that you don't share assets that are in his name.

We rent. I have an investment property in my name from before we got together. We had been talking about buying together but a) we obviously can't afford it and b) I would be crazy to enter into a huge joint debt

"My mum dragged herself up and got a mortgage eventually and made sure we always had food and a roof over our head. My dad has never really contributed since - worked as a consultant which usually meant no money or cagey about what he had"

This could well be your future too if you do not act decisively for your own self.

Lavender - you are all saying the same things. And I've read similar on other threads even before this came to light. Part of me wanted to think a strict budget would make it magically ok. But it's not going to. I'm so sad and so angry that it's a really really major issue and that I can't pretend it better. I need to face up to him. I don't want to leave him - I do want him to do whatever it takes to rebuild our relationship and financial future. And I can't be like my mum, I can't be like that and a role model for my little girl.

So, what happens with the rent from the investment property, do you put that into the common pot too?

In your shoes I would keep that separate, and pay more into any mortgage you have on that property.

Dont marry this man, your assets and debts will be shared. Good for him, not so good for you and your child.

Investment property makes a slight loss so no upside there. He's likely to make commission at the end of June which could clear a lot of the debt if it happens. But it's not going to fix the trust issues

How big will the debts be by June, looking realistically at the interest and the down payments? Is not a CC 30% apr? Thats £300 per month interest, per month on 10k alone, so downpayments signfificantly more than that wont touch it! £300 per month, is nearly 4k per year just in interest. Can you afford to be with this man? That is just under a quarter of an average gross salary....

At the moment, all you both can save should be 50-50 to pay his debt to other people and to pay his debt to you.

You are repeating history.

Everything you are aaying and planning, you do know that that's exactly the route your mum took, right?

You as a little girl couldn't understand why she let herself be dragged down - now you do. Good times to balance the bad. Children together. He's soooo confident that he can change 'because you have a plan now...'

Well you had a plan before, you even went to a financial advisor, planned your future, you paid off all his debts so he came up smelling of roses, and 18 months later you're overdrawn and in £15k of debt with proof of his LYING to you staring you in the face.

But you can work it out...

This is what you should do if you want to stay with him.

Do not marry.

Keep finances entirely separate- he pays a portion of his wages (a bloody big portion) into YOUR account for living expenses (and remember, these aren't 50/50 if you're the one who's sacrificing your earning power and pension to do more care for the baby).

DO NOT pay off the debts.

Make sure - tell him if this isn't the case, your relationship is over - that ALL debt is put in HIS name. And there it can stay while HE pays it off. Yes, that's right. They were jointly accrued, I hear you say? Well, yes. But when it comes to shelling out to pay off debts, you've already spent your savings doing exactly that for his sole debt. You've done your bit - now it's his turn.

You, meanwhile, will take control of household spending, bills etc with everything controlled by you. If he baulks, tell him that protecting your DD's security in the face of her father's financial idiocy shouldn't have to be your sole responsibility, but until the day comes when he can SHOW himself to be trustworthy, that's the way it has to be.

Every ine of the suggestions above, sadly, is based on what would be the safest situation for you and your DD when you do split, when you realise that life with this man will mean repossession, bankruptcy, insecurity, resentment. That's what is almost certain to happen. Forget rebuilding trust - only he can do that. Just, for god's sake, keep your finances safe from him, don't throw any more of your money into his bottomless pit, and think of your daughter. He isn't.

Oh and don't make the mistake if thinking it doesn't help your 'family' situation to leave the debt with him, better to pay it off to avoid interest - NO. You did that. And the result is your savings gone and MORE debt. If you pay it off, the same is OVERWHELMINGLY likely to happen. That's how one bad apple in a family brings the lot down. Pay him off again, and in five years that investment property will be long gone.

He's likely to make commission at the end of June which could clear a lot of the debt if it happens

You're beginning to see this through his eyes.

Is he a gambler too OP?

It's like you are all reading my mind. Or sadly have seen it all before. I was thinking it was practical to tackle the debt and get it paid off. The debt is in his name and I def won't look to change that. I guess I'm scared if I undo the joint account i'll have even less visibility. In order to make it work I need him to feel accountable for pulling himself out of it and me to see clearly that he is doing it.

But in any case, say £5000 appears. To you it'll look like it lifts the burden slightly and the debt situation goes from really horrible to still horrible. He'll simply see it as the next big chunk of spending money.

It gets worse doesn't it. He has an online gambling account for fun. I guess I need to make sure about that too.

I think the huge issue here is trust - you need to see what he is doing. You want to micro-manage and control his finances, but that hasn't worked has it? You still don't trust him, you still are waiting for the next hammer blow, and you know this is how he will go on spending for the forseeable.

The only thing you can control is how you can protect yourself, your property and your savings. You cannot control or force him to behave in a different way. And that means you can never, ever trust him. Him waiting for the next windfall to clear his stupid spending will be never ending. When this happens it will be ok, but it won't - because by then there will be other revelations. You can't live your life waiting for the next bonus to sort it out - because it seems it never will. And the taking £2.5K accidentally - does he really think you are that stupid? If it was a mistake, why hasn't it been resolved immediately?

Yes, he needs to stop gambling now.
And he must start paying his debt to you as well.

I think you're right lavender. I think this has shocked him into a spending freeze and reduced his opportunity by handing over his cards. But without being upfront about the rest - then it does feel like a ticking time bomb. He's away on a business trip til Friday night. We are due to visit my parents for the weekend leaving Saturday morning. I've been putting off having this conversation but I need to do it face to face as soon as he is back and just have it out. And regardless of whatever outcome make sure I've put in all the right steps to protect my daughters future.