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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Did the things which brought you to orgasm change totally after childbirth?

103 replies

Bumbandit · 27/03/2014 09:44

I've name changed for this because I post quite a lot and this is a bit of an - ahem- intimate subject.

Ok, so the back story to this question is that I had a really bad birth experience - the kind of one which makes midwives reading your notes suck their teeth and say 'Oh love, you really WERE unlucky weren't you.' ONE of the things which went wrong was that DS got stuck whilst I was at the pushing stage and the midwife didn't believe me when I panted out that I couldn't do this. After over an hour and a half of pushing on a very stuck baby (which is EXCRUTIATINGLY painful and very, very frightening) my lovely DH insisted that as I had been giving it some serious welly and the baby's heartbeat wasn't getting any closer, he wanted me to see a consultant NOW.

I've done all my grieving for that, contacted the Birth Trauma Association, cried a lot and had some great HV support. I'm sure if I was planning on having another I'd be having birth nightmares, but as it is, its old (5 year old) water under the bridge now.

However, since then I've really struggled to come to orgasm - what used to work for me before (small vibe plus G spot) doesn't even come close now. It has led to a few very, very frustrating years for me and DH. But I recently found that a Hitachi Wand (which is one major earth mover of a vibe with sound effects to match) plus a friendly finger up the arse does wonders. And it just DIDN'T before.

I'm delighted that we've found something that 'works' for me but because a vibe that big is so hard to incorporate into sex I often feel a bit like I am being 'serviced' afterwards. Even I find it hard to see my new 'earth mover' vibe as sexy. DH is lovely.. patient, kind and pleased that I am no longer sobbing at three am because I'm so turned on and there is no release (as well as feeling distinctly 'broken').

I've seen gynaes who were next to useless but who did mention that it was possible that some ' nerve damage' may have occurred. But apparently that's all a bit of a mystery to the medical profession, and they knew of no specialists working on it - as opposed to people working on erectile dysfunction of which there are gazillions.

So what I wanted to ask those of you who had a vaginal birth, and perhaps even ones who had a birth where the baby got 'stuck', have you had a similar experience? Did it feel like someone had 'moved the furniture around' after childbirth? I honestly don't think this is emotional trauma - it feels like a mechanical change to me. Also, has anyone found anything that works in the same way as the Hitachi Wand but which a/ isn't enormous and b/ doesn't entail plugging in like you're recharging a phone? It's rather off-putting...

OP posts:
Millyblods · 28/03/2014 18:10

Bum why don't you PM some of the others on the thread and tell them Gussie is coming.

Bumbandit · 28/03/2014 18:23

That was just what I was thinking Milly. Will do.

OP posts:
gussiegrips · 28/03/2014 18:27

Just saying hi (and, more praise for me appreciated by the way - no one takes the blindest bit of notice of me in this house)

I'll come and post later on - I'll dig out some references and resources for you lot. This is just a quickie (baboom tshhhh) to say how delighted I am you are talking about this.

It's scandalous, really scandalous how many women are left "broken" and sad. Medicine is traditionally, misogynist sweeping statement and, though that's clearly changing, old habits die hard. there's a whole lot of taboos wrapped up in "don't talk about it" but, whey should we not? We are built for pleasure, we're entitled to pleasure and it's not acceptable that this topic is not addressed post-natally at any point - whether it's 6 weeks, 6 years, 60 years later.

The female sexual response isn't very well understood because no one really cared about it much. After Viagra's success there was some work done in the hope that money could be made. So far, no blue pill for women, but some progress on understanding how we work.

But, yes, you are entitled to orgasm, it is possible for your nerves to be damaged, and it's possible to improve or fix it. I'd be very interested in hearing about anyone who's asked for a referral on the NHS and been refused - that really shouldn't be happening.

So, let's start with the good news. If you've got a clitoris, congratulations. It's an amazing wee organ - got no purpose whatsoever apart from putting a smile on your face and making you blaspheme. Yep, it's a massive thing - there's the wee bobbly bit that Hitachi found, and it splits into two prongs that go down and back through your pelvis. It's got 8k nerve endings on the wee bobbly bit, men's bellends only have 4k over the whole thing which is why they sometimes need a bit of education on how to touch a clitoris.

Damage to the pelvic floor can dull your sensation and sexual response. Weak muscles and tight muscles can do the same.

I'm just going out for a bit - I'll dig out some links and get back to you.

I'd love MN to run pelvic floor as a campaign - I need to get more organised and push that notion along. It's a topic that affects far more women than you'd ever realise from looking at them, and it really, really pisses me off that the expectation is "oh well, that part of your life is over now". Men wouldn't put up with it, and nor should you.

Rant over.

Am away to stomp about, muttering to myself as I get the kids organised.

Back later x

FallingOverToys · 28/03/2014 18:30

Thanks Gussie. I hate being an enigma to my DH when he is doing things I always used to like but which now make me vaguely uncomfortable Sad

Bumbandit · 28/03/2014 18:34

Thanks Gussie. You truly are a heroine amongst women (bows down and adopts 'We are not worthy' pose).

I am just PM ing some of the people on this thread to let them know you will be along later. Would it help to specify a time ball park or just leave your qs and you'll be along later?

OP posts:
MostWicked · 28/03/2014 19:57

Thank you MostWicked! What's your favourite then?

My fave is number 5. It is very powerful.
I think the help with pelvic floor exercises will be well worth looking at toI will be keeping an eye on here.

Bumbandit · 28/03/2014 20:07

Just in case I fall asleep (I have been sick in bed hence been able to MN more than usual!)

Firstly, Gussiegrips Brilliant.idea to press MN to do a pelvic campaign. We will back you!

My qs are as follows

Can pelvic physios tell if nerves have been damaged through birth? The gynae I was referred to seemed to think that this was a big mystery about which no one knew anything really but then he was pretty shit and clueless about lots of things so I wasn't sure whether to believe him.

How can damaged nerves be fixed? Again this shit gynae thought this was 'probably impossible' and I might 'just have to accept that that chapter of my life -ie the orgasmic one- was over.

I have been doing my Kegels 3 x daily for two months as I was taught (10-15 reps holding for the count of 10 each time and then 10 quick squeezes). I have noticed improvement in the little stress incontinence I had (when sneezing or coughing) but none in sexual responsiveness. (Touching my vagina feels a bit like touching my nose or my ear. I can feel it, but not in 'that way'). All those kinds of feelings appear to have migrated elsewhere - hence my new nickname! Do I a/just need to keep going at the Kegels b/ embrace my.new identity as a bum bandit or c/ do something else?

How do you know when.to seek the help of a pelvic physio and when its emotional, and really a counsellor if some sort would be better? I have found that gynaes tend to assume that if you don't have a prolapse and are not weeing everywhere then really couples counseling is what's needed.

And finally, are there REALLY no researchers in.the UK looking into female sexual dysfunction (or just different function) after birth? Really, out of all the women who become mothers???

Apologies for the long post....

OP posts:
learnasyougo · 28/03/2014 20:49

definitely need a mn campaign. Too many women are putting up with crappy pelvic health because they think nothing can be done.

pfe have helped my continence a lot. it's a bit undone at the mo as I'm 39w pregnant and my poor pf has all my internal organs and a full term foetus plus it's bath water to support, but up until a few weeks ago, gussie's exercises - 70 per day on average -I was able to get away with coughs and sneezes more than half the time. compared to before when I couldn't even twist my torso or take a large stride without leaking.

Dh also noticed a difference in tone, but it hasn't really brought me any closer to getting anything out of sex.

Once I've had my baby, i'll be asking for a referral back to a physio to measure my pelvic floor tone. sexually though, I suspect it is nerve damage. I definitely suffered nerve damage of some sort from the birth, as I temporarily lost all bladder sensation or control and it took months to return. I was effectively paralysed there.

There needs to be more research on women pre and post natally on nerve function. I'd put money on this being nerve damage.

gussiegrips · 28/03/2014 22:22

ight, are we sitting comfortably? (well, probably not all of you)

First of all - disclaimer...whilst it's delightful to feel the love on here, please bear in mind that there are limits to what can be done online, and that i'm not the world's best PT working in pelvic floors. But, I'll know how to find some smashing ones near you!

Leave questions, i'll answer as we go along. Feel free to PM if it's all too awful to leave on the thread. I've got a poorly kid drama going on here, so if I don't reply for a couple of days don't worry, I'm not ignoring you.

Bum -
Can pelvic physios tell if nerves have been damaged through birth?

So, nerves are the things that make your skin feel and your muscles work and some other stuff that matters but muddies this chat. The nerve that is often under-regarded is the pudendal nerve - that's the one that runs a wiggly route from your spine, through your pelvis and makes your tickly bits tickly.

If it's truly compressed you'll not be sitting comfortably. A pinched nerve is the most excruciating thing ever. A pinched nerve up your fanjo, ugh. ~Stuff of nightmares.

But, apart from being pinched, the nerve can be injured or irritated or nipped by muscle spasm - and that wouldn't just cause pain. it can also cause numbness. And, loads of you are talking about reduced sexual sensation - well, if it's a bit numb, that might be a sign that your nerve's not happy. It can be subtle, it can be intermittent, or it can be bloody awful.

Add to that, altered sensation - so tingling, or numbness or burning and a weakness of the muscles supplied by the specific nerve and a history that would fit with the theory, that'd be enough for an educated guess.

Never believe anything said by someone you regard as shit and clueless. Oooh, I like that, might make a good tattoo?

I have real respect for gynaes. They change people's lives, but, they are experts in surgery and medicine, and aren't quite up to speed with how much can be achieved conservatively (sweeping generalisation) - that's the fault of physios, we're not very good at telling folk how awesome we are I mean, the results achieved from compliant patients

How can damaged nerves be fixed? well, your gyn's right. Nerves can't be fixed in the way bones can. The more sophisticated the tissue the harder it is to repair. but, unless the nerve has been severed or compressed for so long that it has died, recovery is possible. Nerves heal very slowly, a millimetre a week, but, a true nerve injury is unusual in the pelvis. more often thatn not it's just being nipped by a tight muscle - release the muscle, the pressure goes, the problem does too.

have a shiny for doing your exercises. seriously, that's brilliant (and, stealth boast about dryness duly noted). FP exercises will help sexual function, but, it's not a cure all. If you have a knotted area - so, damaged muscles with spasm, then, those bits can niggle a nerve, and that won't be helped by doing exercises.

Think of it like if you had a whiplash. You'd expect to have a bit of neckpain for a while - maybe even a really annoying knot or ache that won't shift, no matter what you do to it, or how you stretch?

So, we know that you still have sensation up your jacksie (thanks for sharing), so, it's not likely to be a catastrophic nerve injury. diagnosed from what yo've posted on the internet, and, erm, after a glass of wine so, ther's nothing in what you've written that would make me think "poor dear, it's all over for her"

and, if I were to get all political about it, gynaes don't know this stuff because they are surgeons. They want to cut and paste and fix. That's their training and what they are good at, and, to be fair, they are faced with a barrage of women saying "I did my exercises and they didn't help, and now I'm desperate and I want you to fix me". They never meet the women who post on threads like this, get information, get help and help themselves. So, it's a self selecting sample, really.

And, finally - no researchers? Well, yes, there are some. But, any pubmed search will show you that there's a disparity between the research looking at erectile dysfunction and "my orgasms are a bit "meh"" That's a feminist issue. And, then some.

It boils down to market forces, IMHO. So, you want information about how your bits work and why they stopped? How is that going to be researched unless you complain? Reseach is funded on need, need is measured by complaint. It's really interesting, women's need to be modest, even in our emancipated UK, we just put up and shut up with having no orgasms, painful sex, no sexual desire, pain in our bits, pishing and shitting ourselves, not being able to pish or shit...

It's a complex thing. It's embarrassing. To seek help you have to admit a need, and that is shameful.

A third of the women aged 35-55 wet themselves.

A third of mumsnetters leaked at penisbeaker.

At least - cos, these stats are based on the folk who ask for help, and that's the minority. Official stats say about 40%, but, itI suspect it's lower. Well, would YOU answer "do you piss yourself, and can you orgasm?" with "no, yes"

So, if it's common, why is it shameful? If a third of mumsnetters had a moustache issue we'd be inundated with help about threading/bleaching/embracing. Pishing yourself? numb nubble? Not so much.

I'll stick my neck out on this, easily identified, because I've got a big gob, forum and say - ALL the research is flawed. We need a big study. A huge study. The anecdotal incidence and the statistical incidence do not, in my opinion, meet up. There is a big market for women who want help. There is proof that pf exs work. MN is a self selecting group, but, it's a whole lot more randomised than any of the previous research I've ever read. And, I've read a lot.

There's no money in it. I have no money to pay them - but, there was no money in "we believe you". And, there is NEED. A secret, life ruining, relationship destroying, depression causing, exercise avoiding, need.

And, once the need is measured - properly - well, that's a money maker. 30% of 50% of the polulation? that's better odds than Viagra started with...

So, you've got a background in this? Embracing my inner Joan, "we shuwd tawk"

FallingOverToys · 28/03/2014 22:27

Gussie

If I wee a bit during orgasm, what kind of PFE are good for that? Same as usual, 10-10-3?

gussiegrips · 28/03/2014 22:28

"learn" - yep, 39 weeks is the point where you get a shiney for even THINKING about fanjo magic.

Yep, get going with #doyerblardyexercises. Don't put up with it, ask for a referral - and, if it's a GP of any gender shrugging shourlders saing "well, you now, it's just your age/having 15 kids/having a vagina" give a steely look and ask "would YOU accept a life without orgasm?" They'll either refer you or burst into tears. There is no third option.

gussiegrips · 28/03/2014 22:51

falling ( and, with apologies - I've had a rough month and am sitting down with a bottle of wine. DH is slightly off the wall aspergers and is choosing to use tonight, our first, night together and off the ward/up with poorly kids, to watch a film in Arabic.

He can speak a bit of Arabic. I know assalamu alaikum, and, that, to my shame, is it.

Firstly, if you find that what was fecking magic, and please, do it again, and ,preferably, never, ever stop - is now grit-teeth-and-smile-incase-you-upset-your-partner/s, well, yep, it might well be that you have localised spasm. Whiplash analogy above applies - you can have one, nippy sweety of a sore bit, and, feck, you don't want a speculum in there let alone someone-you-fancy-the-finger-off.

The good news about that is, that if you prod on a trigger point, they go away. There's a whole lot of debate about whether they exist/how to deal with them, but, in my experience, a good, stern prod either from a physio or a lover or a dildo - doesn't matter - it'll work a treat.

Also, the whole pishing-at-orgasm-thing. Another common-but-not-discussed issue. Usually, it's because of an irritable bladder that fires off when there's no volume need behind it - for instance, in my own case, putting the key in a lock is a challenge. It is treatable with either #doyerblardyexercises, or a bladder diary, behavioural management, cutting down the redbull or botox up the urethra - but, it's not uncommon and it is easily helped. though, my treatment of choice would be just to announce "giant gush of love juice" if your lover has a y chromosome. Watch him puff...

Bumbandit · 29/03/2014 07:58

Gussie wow you are a fount of much wisdom! I am sorry, I did fall asleep before you got here - I have been sick. But sounds like your DC are poorly too. Sorry to hear that, hope its nothing serious?

So the general theme for those of us with numbness is 'hie thee to a pelvic physio', right so its back to the GP for me to try and get a referral (wish me luck!)

I was cheering at your other words about the need for a more collective push for greater research into, and awareness of, this area. I am with you all the way on this. I have NEVER come across.such deep-seated structural and personally-directed sexism as when trying to pursue help with this! It is just so wrong and as you can see from some of the posts upthread causing so many women to develop poor bodily self esteem (feeling 'broken') and damaging relationships, often for years and years.

This can't be right. What to do, do you think? I had contemplated contacting the two female researchers whose research I mentioned upthread. But why won't MN do something? I would have thought it was an obvious campaign for them?

OP posts:
gussiegrips · 29/03/2014 09:40

Och, we've had high drama with our middleykid who's chronically ill with asthma, is immune suppressed because he's on shedloads of meds for that, so landed up with viral meningitis and a dicky heart when he got a bug.

He's fine, he's home and is brighter every day. Hoping to get back to school in a couple of weeks.

So, I'm off work for the foreseeable - which will give me time to write this fanny book I've been mulling over forever. Every cloud.

Bumbandit · 29/03/2014 10:01

Oh Christ! That sounds 'orrible Gussie! I had viral meningiitis when I was a kid and its in the 'Officially a Big Deal' box, let alone with other complications! Please PM me if you want to talk about it further.

Glad work have cut you some slack. And yes, Fanny book is needed! SOLP! (Save Our Lady Parts!) Take care.

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gussiegrips · 29/03/2014 10:17

yep, Bum, I'd strongly encourage anyone of any gender to take their bits to a GP if they have any loss of sexual function and ask for a referral to a pelvic physio.

Some areas have a self referral system - if you google your local hospital you'll get the phone number of the physio department and can ask.

We're trying to get a directory together of people who work privately, so, if you can't find someone PM me and I'll post on our FB group.

there is more research now - as women come up the ranks and go into that field then there is a shift towards studies looking at issues affecting women. But, research needs funding - and, I agree, the sexism is deep seated.

I'd sort it out by changing how we teach sex ed. Teach young folk that sexual pleasure is their right and not a shameful thing. teach them what is normal and why it can change and how to seek help. tell them that pelvic floor exercises are the key to mind blowing orgasms for both sexes. Add in a bunch of stuff about prolapse, interstitial cystitis, premature ejaculation, erectile dysfunction and testicular health AS WELL as all the stuff they need about self respect, healthy relationships and STDs.

We know that PFexs can manage prolapses. It makes sense that if we teach kids to do them when they brush their teeth they should #doyerblardyexercises as well, the incidence of prolapse will reduce. That's currently 50% of women over 50 have a fallen fanny. I have no idea why that is not seen as being a problem.

The NICE guidelines state that if a woman has a symptomatic prolapse she should be referred. So, if you go for a smear and the nurse can see you have a prolapse but you are symptom free, she may not tell you to see your GP. And, even if she did, and you did, they may not refer you on - therefore women don't know how to prevent it's progression. Nope, we just wait for it to get so bad that it needs surgery. I think that's a disgrace.

I'd give every 10 year old girl a mirror and a picture so she knows what her bits look like. I've met women, one a mother of 4, who don't know that they have 3 openings. How can that level of ignorance about your own body be a good thing? If you don't know what your normal is, how will you ever know if something's going wrong? Besides which, it'd normalise genitalia so that we move away from the porn-norm and the disgrace that the rise in labiaplasty is.

If you know female researchers who'd be interested, well, I'd bite your hand off to get involved!

And, as for MN campaign - to be fair, MN's a business, not a public health body. They need a focus for a campaign - and if there's not going to be a financial return there needs to be some positive publicity for their brand. That's what the other altruistic campaigns achieved, they really are very good at it.

They did a webchat with women's health PTs, but, it wasn't very well advertised, there was something else going on at the same time, can't recall what.

I spoke to my professional body about approaching MN and doing something Big, but, it's not their priority just now either. When I spoke to MN they didn't say "no" - but, one voice isn't going to get something going. I need to be organised, just been a bit stretched here to properly galvanise some interest.

This place is perfect for doing anonymous survey monkey stats on conditions that people just don't want to talk about in person. We could really burst the taboo that silences women, and there is NOTHING more disempowering for a woman than not being in control of her bodily functions or losing her sexual identity. These experiences destroy self esteem very quickly, and, it's a tragedy. Millions of tragedies.

Getting this stuff into the media is really hard. I almost had an article published in a red top paper, but, the editor kyboshed it because "smelly old ladies just aren't sexy".

There is an article coming out tomorrow in the LA times by these guys Proper Physios which is beyond exciting - things are starting to change.

I do a bit of stand up comedy and wrote a Fringe show about pelvic floors, thinking if you make folk laugh they'll talk, if they talk it's no longer embarrassing. It went well, and the plan was to develop that this year - but, Middley's been rubbish since August, so, my plans for world domination are a bit behind. still, I'll get there.

Now, can you tell I'm sitting with the Wheezer, watching Lego Ninjago films? Apologies for the epic post - but, there's SO MUCH TO SAY ABOUT FANNIES!

Anyone got an idea about how best to pitch a campaign to MNHQ?

Bumbandit · 29/03/2014 10:54

I thinks I luffs you just a bit Gussie. Please can I vote for you to be Minister of Women's Health?

But seriously, in terms of getting more done collectively. Hummm....will ponder. I don't know if you got time to check out the links on the thread (probs not if you have sick kid issues). But we have identified 3 researchers currently working on female sexual responsiveness who have work recently out which was widely covered in the press because it talked about orgasm as involving what we see as the clitoris and the clitoral roots (buried in the walls of the vagina)

Their work is regarded as groundbreaking, from what I can tell, because many researchers had thought of the clitoral head (ie the bit we can see) as the main site of the action. But their sample was teeny teeny tiny.

I wonder if we wrote to them together to tell them that there is this much bigger pool of women on MN talking about vaginal numbness and difficulties climaxing fter cb whether they would see this as an exciting new avenue research? It ticks the social need box big time, medical researchers may know of grants that we don't, and MN does offer a potentially large and broad cross section of female participants.

I can't see MN objecting to a post asking for study volunteers and if people wanted to continue to post anonymous responses, it.is easy.to set up a password protected Word Press site for the project. I think the key is finding reputable researchers who 'get' that this is a really important issue for many women and who see this as potentially a 'big story' in terms of their research. When Middley is better, what do you say to drafting up a letter to them? Worth a shot?

Although if we wrote to them, we may have to use our real names. I doubt they would take seriously a research proposal from Bumbandit and Gussiegrips! Another possibility might be to go to one of the Feminist Times networking events, talk to the folks there and see what their ideas were?

OP posts:
Bumbandit · 29/03/2014 11:00

As someone mentioned up thread, Naomi Wolf has also written about the importance of neural wiring in orgasm - she had back related issues too. Pls forgive the link to the Daily Fail www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2193849/Feminist-Naomi-Wolf-finds-enjoyment-sex-nerve-wiring-repaired-surgeon.html

Wonder what she would think about this?

OP posts:
learnasyougo · 29/03/2014 11:34

Gussie, sorry to hear your middle kid is so unwell. We understand if you can't commit much time to this thread.

women with broken bits is more than a feminist issue. It's a vast social issue. How many relationships go to the wall because sex fizzled out in a marriage? men resenting their wives not being sexual enough, women resenting husbands for being the only one getting his rocks off each time. women feeling to afraid to run and jump with their kids cos they'll piss themselves (NOW I understand why so many mums try to get out of the mum's race on sports day. They aren't being spoilsports). and the reluctance to exercise because of the consequences.

But then, look at the apathy heretofore regarding FGM. sexual pleasure is seen as only a nice little extra for women, not something women should be able to expect.

gussiegrips · 29/03/2014 13:33

Ach, don't worry about Middley too much, he's on good form today. It's been a bit grim, but, "normal" is the end point of recovery, so, that's a blessed relief.

I have seen Naomi's book's publicity, not read it though. It's interesting seeing stuff from the perspective of a woman with the issue, though, I think her problems are orthopaedic in root rather than the more common post-birth-knackered-bits.

I'll do a pub-med search and see what I can find.

And, yes, learn - it's a huge issue. There's the whole cost to society from relationship breakdown, the women who give up exercise because they'll wet themselves (there is a reason why I don't do zumba...was a bit traumatised) and, that leads to diseases of inactivity, and that kills us. It's not just a matter of being embarrassed to need to use tena pads or be a bit fed up about not having an orgasm - it impacts on quality of life in the most dramatic way.

FGM is a really good parallel. That and the "modesty" thing, virgins or whores. Sigh.

If men knew just how interesting the female sexual response is, they'd be jealous. Penis envy is a nonsense, clit coveting on the other hand...well, that'd make sense!

gussiegrips · 29/03/2014 13:36

bum, that's a good idea. An initial straw poll to get some stats and then be able to formulate a proposal would be great. Being able to do it via an academic institution would be even better.

I'm up for drafting stuff now - I'm off clinical work for the next while, but, writing I can do!

MostWicked · 29/03/2014 14:07

I'd give every 10 year old girl a mirror and a picture so she knows what her bits look like. I've met women, one a mother of 4, who don't know that they have 3 openings. How can that level of ignorance about your own body be a good thing? If you don't know what your normal is, how will you ever know if something's going wrong? Besides which, it'd normalise genitalia so that we move away from the porn-norm and the disgrace that the rise in labiaplasty is.

This thread is so refreshing to read. Women do have the right to sexual pleasure and should not have to just put up with problems that prevent or limit that.

This quote in particular, really struck a chord with me. So many women haven't got a clue what anything between their legs looks like. It almost becomes disembodied in their heads and there is a sense of revulsion at the thought of looking or touching, especially internally. Women have sexual organs, why should we not learn to know and love them as they are, and embrace the pleasure they can bring.

OP, I wish you luck in getting the help you need and have every right to have.

gussiegrips · 31/03/2014 13:09

Here's a couple of good articles about clitorises and birth trauma which can be mistaken for nerve damage.

nuggets of info about your nugget

sue croft's book and website are really, really good

Bumbandit · 31/03/2014 20:08

Thanks so much Gussiegrips. This tonsillitis has gone rogue - temps of over 107- so sorry gone quiet for a couple of days. When normal service is resumed will come back to you about maybe drafting something to those researchers?

OP posts:
gussiegrips · 31/03/2014 21:01

Oh, that's grim, Bum. I hope you've got someone to mop your fevered brow. Or, at least, someone who's good at mopping.

Yep, drafting would be good. I'm speaking to a bunch of physios about putting something together for MN - if there's a small army of way better than me folk approaching together we might get somewhere. Wee international cohort - fingers crossed.

Hope you feel better. Sounds ghastly.

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