Are there any decent men out there ?!

[lemonbabe]

I'm in my early 40's and separated. At first I was quite excited by the thought of meeting a normal, loving man and building a future together. Fastforward a couple of years down the line and a trail of failed relationships/dates and I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with men. It seems virtually impossible to meet someone who's not already taken, gay or mentally unstable. Is it the age ? Is is modern life ? Is it men being @rses ? Or all of the above ? It's hard being a single parent, doing everything alone. Friends are great of course but I'd love to meet someone special. I just feel too young to throw in the towel and begin imagining the rest of my life alone. Anyone feeling the same ?

I know at least two very decent men. One of whom was badly hurt by his ex wife and has never been involved with anyone since. (8 years)

The other is a bit short, and slightly over weight, but is one of the kindest funniest people I have ever met. He is desperate to meet someone, and would love children. Women don't seem to see past his height and very average looks.

Hay - not sure you'll ever get this or read it, but, here goes........
I hope in some small way this helps you.
Abuse is normally two things in my experience and Reserch in adult relationships.

1. It is you and
2. It is the other person

Bare with, read on........ I too went through some of the awful things you have listed above, violence and lies about my character etc., whilst all the time I was with my perpetrator battled the general populous idea that, this man, was a great guy, so helpful, kind blah blah blah you get the idea. It made me sick, it made me angry it made me a ton of things. When we finally separated in Jan 2008 after 7 and a half years and 3 very young children, not only was I a complete and utter wreck but also GLAD. For the first time in as long as I could remember I felt I could breath however, it wasn't over. A 5 year court battle to keep my children ensued and all the emotional termoil that goes with it. During that time I decided to 'get smart' having had the police involved, womens aid and just about ever other professional body around at that time; I delved my heart and soul into Reserch of the law system and personality disorders. I became quite enlightened and surprised by what I was finding. We naturally attract these personalities (without realising it) like magnets. They are 'looking' for us as we are to them their emotional food. Mine was Narcisstic and Passive Aggressive a particular deadly combination that I have avoided (the warning signs and red flags of) ever since. Not an easy task I'll warn you, but you learn. There are a ton of sites around now that give you so much information about these 'types' and what YOU can do to avoid them. The main thing here is YOU'VE identified the problem by asking the question is it me? I'm the common factor ....... Having said that the 'problem' is only in part with you. In that you have unwittingly stummbled into a bear trap. The personality types you are attracting will NEVER ask the question as the 'faults' are ALWAYS someone else's. You'll see what I mean when you start to read (as I did) about their traits and how to avoid them. Im fortunate in the years I've been single, I've been able to pull my children out of the 'learned behaviour' racket; learn from my research; be stronger/smarter with my choices in life and learn most of all that being on your own is not as bad as it once seemed. You sound like a strong person under all that you have been through so in effect you are already halfway there. Even if it doesn't feel like that. Good Luck! :)

What is the best way to meet women that don't have or want children? Also good sense of humour and thin

Usually by not being a wanker King, do you think that might be where you are going wrong?

What?
I'm 33, so find it hard to find woman that don't already have children or want children. I have tended to date older women (past the fertile age) or younger women (that are not ready for children), but neither of these options seem suitable for the long term.
Any ideas?

Well firstly, if you don't have children, or want children, and prioritise a woman not having children as the most important thing you are looking for in a partner, you might be better off asking on a website that doesn't have a banner proclaiming itself as 'written by parents, for parents'. Presumably if you are so anti a partner having children you don't actually like children very much?

Secondly, anyone that prioritises 'thin' over say, intelligent, kind, thoughtful, generous, fun etc etc comes across as a bit of a wanker. Which is why I asked if you knew where you had been going wrong?

I do like children. I just don't want any.
I mentioned 'thin' as it is an initial observation to whether I will be attracted to them. Things like intelligent, fun, etc, you figure out over time. It is very difficult/impossible to just look at someone and establish their intelligence for example.
You don't have to be a parent to use mumsnet. Most of the topics on here do not relate to parenting

As someone stated before, internet dating is extremely difficult for shy or even genuine men. A certain type of man will create a profile that will tick all of your boxes. Its relatively easy to see that most women are after the same man on paper. In essence they lie. They are confident enough to get a date through a few lines of text. I wouldn't be surprised if that is copied and pasted. They message every new registration and filter the ones they are interested in after meeting.

The ones you say you want are more honest and their profile is actually true, (bloody amateurs) so they don't get replies as invariably they don't look as good as the wankers. They also message very few people, the ones they think are real prospects mainly. So basically they get ignored.

But that's ok, don't feel sorry for them, the women that do engage with them are far less shallow and they have to date far less people to find someone special. They also get chased a bit by the friends of the women they know.

Men do have more choice from university, its a factor of two to one women to men attending. But this narrative of millions of attractive great catches lined up against a big pile of manchild fat balding idiots is laughable. ID sites are full of women with inflexible lists and criteria that no one can possibly meet. Written by women with a list of flaws their friends wouldn't point out to them or don't recognise.

On the men dating women with kids, Its not the fact you have kids. being a good parent is an attractive quality. But the competition is women who can arrange to go out, don't cancel all the time and a realisation that you are rightly very far down their list of priorities. Its not a concious thought (usually) but its understandable why relationships grow quicker without those factors.

Early in this thread there are women sincerely reassuring men that of course looks and height don't matter - end of the thread - 'she has to be thin'. Mm-hmm.

As this thread is over a year old it would be nice to hear from some of the participants - any of you happily coupled up? Or still single but happy to be?

I'd agree a lot with Velvet

I have been single (ish) for a while and find that there's efinitely a higher proportion of men who fit into a few categories:

1. The ones with big flaws that mean no one snapped them up yet
2. The ones who were awful to their FIRST wife and are dovorced for a reason
3. The ones who are bitter from their divorce / have unimaginable baggage that's more than you can cope with

I have, in the last couple of years I have been on dates with maybe 20 men.

A large portion fitted into each of the above categories.

I have dated two VERY good ones though. One just didn't feel I was right for him, and the other I felt he wasn't right for me.

I think there are good men, just a much smaller proportion than there was when we were younger :/

Nothing wrong with looking for someone slim if that's what your attracted to, there is no point pretending otherwise. It's not like you can't find slim people with all those positive personality traits listed.

Short answer. No there arnt. You just have to find one who has the least issues

They don't have the same depth of emotion that we possess

Do remember that we are a very self-selecting group here.

Your exes might not have the same "depth of emotion" as a group of women:

who choose to participate in a conversation abut relationships

on a website known for its in-depth analysis of such

That doesn't mean that the distribution of feelings is not similar in the male and female poopulations.

Also "depth of emotion" sounds reallly wanky. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who claimed to have a higher-than average "depth of emotion", I imagine they would always make everything about them, because they feel things more than other people.

lemonbabe,
"Are there any decent men out there ?!"

Yes !

I had to wait years before I met my second husband, but it was worth the wait.

Why are you "separated" and not divorced? IMO until you have let go of one relationship you aren't ready for the next one...

If you want to find lovely men in your forties and fifties you have to try very hard, look in unusual places and be willing to settle for someone who is kind and wonderful company but not necessarily incredibly handsome or wealthy. They often have awkward body-language, too, from years alone/difficult twenties, that you have to ignore. It changes when they become happy. Why not try a folk festival? For instance Sidmouth? If you go along by yourself total strangers will be friendly and single men will dance with you.

I think it is virtually impossible to find somebody viable in our forties and fifties at least that is what I have found. I am 53 attractive and educated but most single men have support needs too high for me to be remotely drawn to them in the relationship department.

An occasional one may be nice out there but he is invariably spoken for or in an unhappy relationship and cannot get round to leaving the wife for a variety of reasons so it is still hard work/bit depressing. It is also quite risky getting involved with a married man needless to say. Since you will always be on the fringe/potentially left out a good lot of the time etc.

All in all quite shit. :(

Yes they are out there but not easy to find. I was single about 18 months, tried OLD but was just awful, I mean truly bad. I read a post on FB from an old school friend complaining about women on dating websites baring too much flesh etc. I happened to comment on it, conversation flowed, been together about 4 months and it's going great. Weird way to get together and I don't think we would have otherwise as we don't (didn't) socialise in the same areas or live too near each other. It really does happen when you least expect it. Do you connect with old school friends? That might be somewhere to start

how does a man define a 'decent woman'?

I'm seeing somebody who is not perfect, he talks incessantly but he is definitely a good guy and I am happy to listen to him make a short story long so long as it's not about football. But I read this thread and I think about how decent women seem to outnumber men by about 100 to 1. I feel like me and this new guy are equals and we are but if there's a scarcity of good men and no scarcity of good women I don't want to risk getting attached to somebody I'll end up losing. Scary stuff innit.

I enjoyed OLD though. I just see it as a night out. Only met one WANKER in 18 months. He was a pilot. So I asked for it.

"I have dated two VERY good ones though. One just didn't feel I was right for him, and the other I felt he wasn't right for me. "

This is the worst that happened to me OLD! and I learnt a lot from it.

This is very difficult to say. I'm sure if my DH came 'on the market' many of you would think he was heaven sent, the problem is it's a rare man or woman even who tells you the bad shit and why someone left them immediately, so you get around to discovering someone is a bit of a shit many years down the line in some cases

My experience of my STBXH and dating other men in their 40s is that they are selfish and self-obsessed. Us girls were brought up to be considerate and helpful (I think the Brownie motto included wording about helping other people?) and the boys weren't, IMHO.

So true esoteric. Im sure my x looks wonderful on paper

WFTW (wait for the widowers) - I couldn't read that without commenting that I went out with a widower for about 18 months and he was the most controlling, jealous, possessive, insecure, prejudiced, sexist guy I've ever tried to have a relationship with (also explosive & verbally abusive when annoyed - which was almost everytime I socialised on my own). He seemed like a dream at first, took 3 months before the facade started to drop. Should've ended it when I first started seeing it but subjected myself to another year or so, due to loneliness and putting myself under intense pressure to be in a relationship.

In fairness though, he had been widowed approx. 11 years and had had several (failed obviously) relationships, so perhaps the above is still true, but only if it's relatively recent.

On the general subject I know a couple of women who've met good partners in their 40's and 50's - it's a numbers game. One met hers when she added an entirely new hobby to her life. The other socialises in a very driven way. It takes time and opportunities; my view would be if you're not meeting someone; keep expanding and diversifying your activities & circle ... what people have said about fining someone when you're not (desperately) looking is also prob'ly true.

Just for extra info. one guy was cheated on by his wife. The other man is a widower (long-term) and while he seems to be a good partner in many ways, it does appear that recovering fully from his bereavement is still an issue, it's not been all plain sailing for them.