He will not acknowledge our relationship. I feel pretty crazy.

[FlippingFlippetyFlip]

I want to know if I am going crazy. TIA Oh, and I've namechanged because my usual persona on here is quite breezy/funny (I like to think)/enjoys Style and Beauty. I didn't want to lose that.

Anyway, here goes nothing - My boyfriend will not make our relationship public, or admit that we are in a relationship at all. He apparently holds the view that there 'is no relationship before engagement.' I must add here that he is Christian, and very inolved in his church. He worries about his reputation in the church.

You'll notice I have referred to him as my boyfriend. THAT IS BECAUSE HE FLIPPING WELL IS. He has been with me through getting sober (I'm a recovering alcoholic), we tell each other 'I love you' and mean it. We are in a long distance relationship, we discuss our future together, we have met each others families. (For sad, convoluted reasons involving churches, my family and he do not see eye to eye. But that's another happy issue!) When we spend time with each other, it is wonderful.

But. A couple of days ago things came to a head because I had discussed him with a mutual friend, who was his friend first, word somehow got back to him, and he was angry. He thinks somehow that this will affect his reputation . He goes on about not wanting people to know his private business. And he comes out with this supposedly biblically supported thing of 'no relationship before engagement.' I feel so hurt, dismissed and angry by this. When I try to discuss it with him, I just end up massively upset and/or yelling. I want a bit of normality, not for him to shout it from the rooftops or anything.

So resentful. Any perpective would be good, though I know the whole thing sounds really confusing and weird. Sorry it's long, just felt like a stream of consciousness.

I too have friends who where Christian and what is said here is true.

They were in a relationship yet did not have sec before marriage. They both believed that you shouldn't date someone without the intent on it leading to marriage. They have just had a little girl.

That is another angle you need to think about. If you marry this guy, is this the sort of Christianity you want you sons and daughters to grow up in? The one where you are happy to do 'everything but' yet keep the relationship secret and hidden... Almost like a dirty little sin (not sure if this last bit is accurate but why else keep you hidden?)

And he shouldn't be holding your alcolism over you as a way to make you feel guilty and shut up. He should be proud of you.

Well, I have a lot to think about I'm not particularly looking forward to having a proper talk with him about this, but think it must be done tomorrow when we meet up.

It has been therapeutic for me to write out my thoughts though, and to hear the feedback.

My goodness, this is not a goer. Dump now and save the train fare.

Sounds batshit to me. Move on.

Yuk, bin him. He doesn't like women, that's the problem. ANd he's hiding behind his imaginary friend in order to justify his mistreatment of you.

Christianity is inherently misogynistic, and therefore appeals to men who don't like women. A 'strict' religious upbringing is horrifically damaging, especially to women. You'd feel better without the whole ludicrous, primitive business anyway.

In answer to those wondering how a couple gets to the engagement stage without dating... You court instead which is clearly very different... I read an awful lot of Christian self-help type books about singleness in my later teen years so am somewhat of an expert when it comes to the terminology!

Flip, do come back & let us know how the talk goes! Praying that whatever happens you'll feel God's presence with you & know that the future holds much happiness for you, with or without this specific person!

I'm intrigued though - which passage did he use to back up his 'let's have secret sex but keep our association quiet until I decide otherwise' attitude? I bet it wouldn't take too long to come up with a theologically sound argument to challenge his interesting interpretation!

OP my church is Presbyterian although not what I'd call 'hardcore'. Relationships are fine prior to marriage. I rarely get a chance to go what with one illness or another but my DH and I observe all the myriad of politics and jostling for position that seems to go on. To the point where even dh's mum had to step down being an elder as it was all getting too much and she didn't want to be sucked into it all. I often wonder how our lovely pastor deals with it all.

My point is that for some people image and reputation is everything. Coming across as morally superior and one-upmanship is so common at church. People seem to so easily cast aside teachings and close their ears to things they don't listen to. It's terribly hypocritical behaviour.

I can't remember the exact bit in the New Testament but it's where Jesus tells people off for making themselves out to be so special for going to church and really waving it around under other people's noses.

Your dp is behaving so contrary to our teachings. What happened to being humble? What happened to being honest? If he wants to be with you and your church requires you to be married, then do so (if it is what you both want). Why is he putting his reputation ahead of honesty? Why is he so intent on appearing so wonderful at church? Who one earth is he trying to impress there? He's obviously trying to impress someone, be it the church hierarchy or another woman.

Even removing religion out of it, it's a shabby way to behave to another human. He sleeps with you, then he doesn't, and seems to blame you somewhere in the process He is using you and he's not at all behaving like a Christian, putting his reputation above you.

You deserve to be treated better than this.

If during the course of this conversation tomorrow he mentions his status at church, do ask if he's actually read what Jesus said about the Pharisees! Specifically point him in the direction of Luke 18:10-14. The approval of every member of his church is ultimately useless to him.

I'm actually getting rather cross on your behalf about the way he's treating you! It's not right. If this attitude is a good indicator of his general personality then perhaps it's for the best that this has come to a head & you can get out & meet a much nicer man who'll put you before the opinions of anyone else. That's what you should be able to expect from a relationship with someone who really cares about you. Being single might not seem like the preferable option while you can convince yourself that things will change with time but surely it's better to be single & available to meet a more caring person than to cling on to someone who may not be able to be who you want him to.

As living says, you deserve better. I may not know you personally but anyone deserves to be treated better than this.

I think he sounds like a massive control freak. It's not uncommon for such folks to be drawn to 'strict' churches, which they then cite as justification for abuse.

I realise it all looks more complicated and sensitive than that to you, Flipping, but I would really advise you to broaden your social network so you can at least get a fresh perspective on relationships & life. And, please, stay on MN! I fear you might need this board again.

He is using you as his undercover sidechick, and when he finds a christian woman from his church he deems suitable and marryable, he will discard you. Thats why he needs to keep you out of the picture, and his reputation intact. What a nasty piece of work.

Flipping, this sounds weird. Another poster makes a great point. How are you supposed to find a life partner if you can't have relationships before marriage? Sorry, but no legitimate religion will impose such a restriction. And you go to the same church so you already know they don't endorse this. It does sound a bit like he's wanting to appear 'available' in the eyes of his church. He has concerns for his 'reputation', and that reputation is as a single avaliable man. Sounds dodgy to me. If it doesn't look right or make sense, I would suggest it isn't.

Aside from all this and lets say he loves you, has genuine religious beliefs (except for picking and choosing when and what type of sexual activity is ok [skeptical]) blah blah blah...his confusion around his beliefs and putting them ahead of your feelings and yours and his relationship, does not bode well for him as a long term partner i'm afraid.

I come from a Presbyterian family. And courting is fine before engagement. Flings are not however are not fine I'd say he isn't serious about you and that's why he's worried about his reputation, because he has no intention of getting serious with you.

My Scottish Presbyterians are a dour lot, can't he go to a gospel church instead? They sound much more cheerful.
(Joke)

seriously though, you have to think carefully about the fact you are with someone who is essentially ashamed of being with you and their feelings for you.

If you marry this bloke, you will open the rest of your life up to the Doctrine According To Him.

Run, very fast ! he is picking and choosing the bits of his religion that suit him, and demean you. It doesn't bode well.

There are more red flags here than you would find at a Marxist convention. How is his behavious Christian in any way?

As the saying goes " Going to church makes you no more a Christian than standing in a garage makes you a car"

His behaviour is not Christian. He sounds like a control freak. Think very carefully before proposing to him- he may accept and then you'll be stuck.

Good luck Op

I agree that his behaviour is not very Christian. Hardly compassionate, is he?