But what if it is the other way round?

[sufferingtoo]

Namechanged as my DP knows my username. Long time lurker, occasional poster and definitely don't live under a bridge!

Finally got up the courage to post whilst reading a current thread about anger management and did not want to hijack it.

My current situation is almost exactly the same as the OP in that thread. When my DP gets annoyed or something is not going their way they get consumed with rage - there is no violence - just rage and then an extended period of sniping and comments to belittle me.

Our DC is only 4 and I am worried how this will affect him in the future.

The real sting in the tail is that I am DH and the problem is with DW.

For instance we had a very minor disagreement on Sat night that should have resulted in a 5 min husband/wife row at most.

For me it resulted in the standard intensely angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me, etc. She literally looked like she is going to explode with anger. Sunday was complete scilence except for continued snide comments, Monday not much better and we almost had a civil conversation last night. I did asked "how am I meant to live like this" and got told "don't! just leave!".

Going on past form she will be nice as pie by this evening or tomorrow morning and it will be like it never happened.

Don't get me wrong - I have my failings (as we all do) but I don't think I deserve this.

The advice on here about taking the DC's and getting a better life is all well and good when aimed at the female partner but what can the father do? My plan seems to be to suck it up, protect my DC from it and get us both through this, while trying to get her to realise what she is doing and hopefully improve the situation.

Before you ask - it does seem she was treated much like this as a child - talks about how her parents always put her down etc.

Any advice on how to manage the situation would be gratefully appreciated.

I've been in exactly the same situation although gender reversed. Can I say it will not get any better and making excuses and trying to understand her is not going to change anything.

This type of rage, which is triggered by nothing (in my case H couldn't find his bank card and said it was my fault as I had 'probably' put something on top of it (I hadn't). 30 minutes (it can be up to 4 hours) raging about my faults, shortcomings and so on followed. I wouldn't mind getting upset about a missing bank card but the personal attacks and name calling (bitch, whore) is what make these type of rages a different matter.

Please understand, it is not about having a short fuse it's something far deeper. It's a belief that they have the right to treat you in this poor way. She may have observed this in her childhood but she may have also have picked up the the belief that she is entitled to treat another person this way. Maybe a bit of genetic programming involved.

There is an element of choice that you can't ignore. She chooses to behave this way because it gives her a sense of empowerment. The more she does it the more she will continue.

If you meet like with like (and somewhere along the line even the most mild mannered person will react with aggression) it will only escalate the situation.

A big danger sign is if she never comes to you and apologises or offers to stop or decrease the rages. It indicates she doesn't accept this is wrong. That is a very bad sign.

I don't know what to advise. Nothing worked for me, ignoring the rages, ignoring him, whatever! Like your P my H was a hard working and reasonable person most of the time. However he would fly into a rage if I brought the subject up of his rages!

It's only if she accepts the behaviour and takes responsibility will things change. Get in touch with the organisations others have listed. Talking things through will get things right in your head.

Looking back I wish I had walked out the minute it started, but I was 3 months pregnant and had just come out of hospital with a threatened miscarriage. I would take bets your P didn't start this behaviour when you were is a position to pack and walk!

Poor OP. It doesn't sound good. It seems clear to me that, for whatever reason, your relationship has run its course. My SIL had a similar (eerily so) situation to yours. She left and took the kids, and is now transformed. Sometimes you can't see how shit things are until you're out of the situation.

She does this about once a month (and not I do not think it is hormone related as it is not regular but I am no doctor)

There are many medical condition that can affect mood and impulse control, for example diabetes, depression, hypothyroidism, PCOS to name but a few.

Capsicum. I have hypothyroidism and pmt. I also know people with diabetes and PCOS. These conditions can cause mood swings in a few cases and irritability.

They do not cause someone to be emotionally abusive and manipulative. This is clearly the case here. You are making excuses for appalling behaviour.

I get irritable and niggle about the mess in the kitchen. I have never screamed personal, hurtful, threatening abuse at anyone.

You cannot excuse the indefensible. Those conditions you cite do not cause people to become emotional abusers.

I do not think we have enough information to say this constitutes EA though. Bewildered, Attila.

For me it resulted in the standard intensely angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me, etc. She literally looked like she is going to explode with anger. Sunday was complete scilence except for continued snide comments, Monday not much better and we almost had a civil conversation last night. I did asked "how am I meant to live like this" and got told "don't! just leave!"

Doesn't this constitute enough information? 40 minutes of ranting is NOT normal!

If it happens once a month then she should keep a diary and speak to her gp about pmt.

If she is fine the rest of the time and no other issues then pmt sounds possible. There are different levels of pmt.

But even if she does have pmt it doesn't excuse it. It is totally unacceptable. She has to accept she has a problem and seek help. And if it is pmt there is help.

Sounds cyclical if it is once a month. And it doesn't have to be regular as periods can be irregular.

capsium - Labeling his wife as an 'abuser' is tricky. It suggests that her behaviour will never improve.

How ridiculous, whether OPs wife's behaviour improves is entirely up to her but right now her behaviour is abusive.

unlucky83 - Hmmm - The thing that has jumped out to me is the 'don't - just leave' comment...that makes me think that maybe you aren't as helpful as you think you are?

You know what leaps out at me when I read 'don't - just leave', is that OP's wife does not want to discuss it calmly and without vitriol and if OP doesn't like it he can go.

OP you are not responsible for her behaviour and you can not stop it, if she refuses to address her anger then it won't get better. She has to be the one to seek help and she has to be the one to address whatever is behind her anger, if it was in the power of the abused to change the abuser then the Relationships board would be empty.

Right now you have no idea if your son will be the next focus for her anger but at the very least if he continues growing up with this going on in his home then he will be effected. With all the will in the world you can not cushion/protect him from this, especially if she is his primary carer.

If it was just you then sucking it up would be your prerogative but it isn't just you, there is also a little boy and his childhood at stake.

And for the posters calling this 'a bad patch' or speculating whether depression has triggered this behaviour, it doesn't matter what the cause of her unacceptable behaviour is, the important thing is that it stops.

It would be unusual for someone with severe PMT to not realise themselves they had a problem and that it was cyclical. It's pretty bloody obvious, surely?? 'aaargh, I'm cross with everyone, why am I so angry?". Period arrives. Mystery solved.

Apermanen you would be surprised. Even the OP has said it happens once a month but instantly dismissed pmt.

That's why I wanted to know whether the wife recognised it as a problem. But the OP has so far not confirmed.

OP thought this did constitute EA from what he wrote in his last post but writes also that he has been given much food for thought generally on possible alternatives.

I sincerely hope that OP does call Mankind and talks his situation at home through with them. There is after all also a four year old child in this household.

Ffs! PMT! Give me a break, the OP says it's around once month but not regular calendar wise.

Did this behaviour happen before they lived together and had the DC? I'd bet not because the living together and the DC would not have happened! Unless she miraculously didn't have periods before!

Being irritable and bad tempered does not mean 40 minute rages and personal emotional abuse.

Only an idiot would not recognise the link and do something about it.

Only an idiot would not recognise the link and APOLOGISE and then do something about it. The P appears to have 4 day episodes and then develops total amnesia.

Are we to believe PMT symptoms includes amnesia? Grow up!

Regardless of root causes I still think OPs wife's own childhood has played a role here in how her own view of relationships has been shaped.

The only level of abuse acceptable within a relationship is NONE. I sincerely hope that OP has indeed talked to Mankind today.

There's an elephant in the room that no-one has mentioned yet. OP, if you could be guaranteed 50-50 custody after a split, how would you feel about leaving? Is it that you're terrified that given your DP is SAHM and you're the full time WOHP, you'd be very disadvantaged when it came to custody?

It sounds to me like your perception is that your partner's rages are out of proportion to your behaviour, and that you've tried talking to her after the event when things should have been calmer, but your attempts have been met with stonewalling. Now it could be that your perception is wrong, or it could be that your instincts are spot on and this behaviour on her part is really unreasonable. This is one reason why talking to Mankind is such a good idea - you'll be able to talk it through with people who deal with this stuff on a daily basis rather than a bunch of internet randoms. But it does strike me that you might be trying to put up with an untenable situation because you're frightened of losing access to your child, and that's something you need to think through (FWIW I have a friend who was full time - his ex I think was PT rather than SAHM - who got 50-50 custody after the split and the custody seems to be working very well).

Yes I thought that too, Lurcio.

The charity Families Need Fathers might be helpful in this case.

Should add (though with the important disclaimer that I'm just another internet random) that my gut feeling is that your instincts are right on this one. I couldn't live with someone who had 40 minute rages followed by 4 day sulks.

How ridiculous, whether OPs wife's behaviour improves is entirely up to her but right now her behaviour is abusive.

Being abusive and being an abuser is different. It depends whether the behaviour is habitual, labeling that person an abuser in terms of EA, suggests it is.

You really can not can an objective sense of scale from what the OP has said. A lots of people have experienced verbal rows which have resulted in sulking for a few days. It is a common, if undesirable, experience,.

I don't condone bad behaviour but think it is damaging to even suggest things can never improve. People behave badly for all sorts of reasons, medical conditions included. This does not mean they will always behave badly.

Think you might find periods come roughly once a month and for many not regularly. The 40 min rage, the refusing to speak for a few days and then the miraculous back to ones old self sounds very like the more severe end of pmt. It may be that things have got worse as she ages this is fairly typical too.

Just because you have no experience of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I'd have thought if there is a chance this could be medical and treatable then surely a good outcome for all.

But as I have said before she needs to accept she has a problem and want to seek help otherwise what choice does the OP have.

A diagnosis of pmt doesn't mean it's all okay. It just provides the why. The OPs wife would still have to change her behaviour.

I am the child in this scenario. My mother dished out horrible emotional abuse to us all, although I was the particular target. She talked like shit to my father in front of us all as well.

At the age of 40, I am still primarily angry with my father for doing nothing to protect me from her rages and I have suffered from dreadful depressive episodes, to the extent that I am now on a very high dose of ADs for life.

Just putting up with it will not get you anywhere - not if you want a meaningful relationship with your children when they have grown up.

I have NC'd for this as I don't want it linking. This was me. I was angry, shouted at the children, blamed my DH for everything and we would regularly have screaming rows. One day he sat down and told me he was leaving unless I sorted it. I went to GP, came off hormonal contraception onto the coil and was prescribed Citalopram for anxiety. We have a long way to go, but the explosive rage has calmed down a lot and we are atarting to talk about things that we couldn't have done before without me getting in a rage. It's horrible to admit, but I couldn't see I needed help. I hope you can work your way through things.

You can have very severe forms of PMT such as Premenstural Dysphoric Disorder and Menstrual Psychosis. My mother used to go completely mad for a week every month. However she was furious the rest of the time, like the OP's wife, so hormones was only part of the story.

My father was, I guess, in the same position as the OP. What to do?
My father chose not stand up to her and to pretend it wasn't happening and keep the family together.

My mother had no real awareness of her own behaviour, or its impact on others. No idea she could or should control it. She just thought she had the right to kick off whenever she felt like it. And when it was over she just forgot about it.

I don't think all people who end up being abusive are intentionally or unrepentantly so. And I feel sure that if my father had taken a tougher line, reflecting her own behaviour back to her, it would have made a big difference.

In the OP's situation I would tell his wife her behaviour is totally unacceptable and that she needs to sort it out or the relationship is over - that he will have to protect himself and his son from her raging. The first step would be psychotherapy and anger management. If she's not willing to acknowledge the problem and work on it, then he just needs to get himself and his son out.

if it was PMT - you would feel remorse for your actions and apologise. I agree that feeling stressed and angry once a month is common and can lead to being crictical and irritable even downright angry. but you do notice what you are doing - it isn't occurring in a vacuum.

She sounds like she justified her actions and does really care what the OP thinks or feels.

you need to call her on it, her gender is irellevant OP

dont let fear of splitting up hold you back, it sounds to me like emotional abuse

she could change! but you need to be very brave and call her on it

so sorry OP

and as for the all excusers, PMT? fuck right off, sorry but there is no way people would say that about a man behaving that way

Menatrual psychosis remains a disputed diagnosis as far as I am aware. PMDD, the jury is still out on. some say it's usually a misdiagnosis for what is actually major depressive disorder. Others have quite convincingly argued that it was in effect invented by the manufacturers of SSRI drugs to create a new licensed application for their drugs.