But what if it is the other way round?

[sufferingtoo]

Namechanged as my DP knows my username. Long time lurker, occasional poster and definitely don't live under a bridge!

Finally got up the courage to post whilst reading a current thread about anger management and did not want to hijack it.

My current situation is almost exactly the same as the OP in that thread. When my DP gets annoyed or something is not going their way they get consumed with rage - there is no violence - just rage and then an extended period of sniping and comments to belittle me.

Our DC is only 4 and I am worried how this will affect him in the future.

The real sting in the tail is that I am DH and the problem is with DW.

For instance we had a very minor disagreement on Sat night that should have resulted in a 5 min husband/wife row at most.

For me it resulted in the standard intensely angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me, etc. She literally looked like she is going to explode with anger. Sunday was complete scilence except for continued snide comments, Monday not much better and we almost had a civil conversation last night. I did asked "how am I meant to live like this" and got told "don't! just leave!".

Going on past form she will be nice as pie by this evening or tomorrow morning and it will be like it never happened.

Don't get me wrong - I have my failings (as we all do) but I don't think I deserve this.

The advice on here about taking the DC's and getting a better life is all well and good when aimed at the female partner but what can the father do? My plan seems to be to suck it up, protect my DC from it and get us both through this, while trying to get her to realise what she is doing and hopefully improve the situation.

Before you ask - it does seem she was treated much like this as a child - talks about how her parents always put her down etc.

Any advice on how to manage the situation would be gratefully appreciated.

[StupidMistakes]

I would say try to get her help, there could be underlying issues that need addressing. If she refuses help then honestly I think you need to leave (and I will be flamed for this next sentence) but take your child with you. Let her have contact but until she has dealt with her issues you will need to be primary carer otherwise your child will grow up thinking this is normal and have self esteem issues and other emotional issues possibly including attachments in the future.

You aren't powerless. I am not saying it won't be hard or the road to her recovery will be easy.

Good luck

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

Well, we've all suggested talking as a starting point. Talking, counselling, all that is good, IF she is willing.

"it resulted in the standard intensely angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me,"

I'm surprised that people are defending this, but there you go.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It is not down to him to try and get her help; why should be take further ownership of her violent temper and outbursts towards him?. He should actively seek help for his own self, this man is already desperately looking for a middle ground here and there may not ultimately be any such thing.

I would like to know if his wife is actually contrite post these verbally abusive episodes towards him or whether she actually accuses him of driving her to do this?. Whatever the root causes there is no justification or excuse acceptable for such verbal violence towards another person regardless of their sex.

The only person he can help here is his own self and he talking to Mankind may well be of considerable benefit to him. Domestic violence is no respecter of persons, class or creed after all.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Who's defended it? defending it would be saying 'well, OP, you do sound rubbish and I think she has wasted her life with you, so she is right to say that'.

Saying that there might be things to think about here is not the same thing. And I do not think it is entirely unproblematic that OP is deciding what she can be cross about and for how long.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"And I do not think it is entirely unproblematic that OP is deciding what she can be cross about and for how long".

Really?. A minor, to his eyes anyway, disagreement ended up in her angry tirade telling him that she has wasted her life and that he is a rubbish husband and the next day entailed more of the same with her saying, "don't! just leave". OP is right - he does not deserve this at all.

Also her behaviour post all this verbal abuse is telling in that she is acting like it never happened and is as nice as pie. Abusers do the nice/nasty cycle very well but it is a continuous one. It will happen again.

[capsium]

Attilla I do think you might be projecting your own experiences onto the OP rather.

Yes, there may be a serious enough problem to have to end the relationship. However lots of people experience temporary problems similar to what the OP has described which are resolved. I know some very successful people who have recovered from a lot.

I think it is only the OP, or someone who knows every one that is involved, to say which is most likely.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Well no actually re myself. But I do know that domestic violence victims are certainly not solely women.

What too if she refuses to discuss anything and keeps yelling at her H?.

OP has also stated that its always been like this as well if he is honest with himself. Whatever the root causes there is a child here to consider apart from both parents.

[capsium]

What too if she refuses to discuss anything and keeps yelling at her H?.

You cross that bridge when you come to it. Just don't panic at this stage.

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

Calling it a 'temporary' response to stress, suggesting he tread on eggshells around her in case it sparks her off, minimizing it, ARE defending it.

It is not defensible to treat someone like this.

If she wants to change, fabulous, they can get help. I really hope she does.

[VerlaineChasedRimbauds]

I recommend calling Mankind too. Calling them won't mean ending your marriage - but it will mean talking to people who understand and have experience in listening to and counselling men who are suffering abuse. The abuse may be not be permanent and the problems may be surmountable - but as described it is completely unacceptable and unhealthy in a relationship.

I know a man who suffered emotional abuse, fury and then physical abuse from his (ex) wife - it was hugely damaging to him AND to his children and his relationship with his children, who couldn't understand how he hadn't done something about it.

Please get some help.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I do not myself think the OP is panicking; like many people in such situations he is conflicted; what does he do for the best for all concerned?. He probably still loves his wife despite everything, it would not surprise me at all if that was indeed the case.

I think the OP is at the end of his rope now actually because he really has no idea of the best way forward both for him and his child. Hence asking here.

[VerlaineChasedRimbauds]

Capsium - it sounds to me as if the OP has well and truly reached that bridge. It's not as if this was a one-off event.

[rainbowsmiles]

Atilla your level of assumption goes beyond reasonable. You cannot assume violence from the information provided.

I think it is telling that the OP has not said whether his wife believes she has a problem.

His claim that he does a lot of washing even though he works full time? And he cooks??? That his wife can't have any stress because basically she has an easy life provided by him. His easy child is no doubt easy due to the hard work of the main care giver.

In explanation for the argument he gives no real detail just that he forgot something. Does he forget things a lot? Is he passive aggressive? Does she behave like this a lot or is it once a month. Does she suffer from pmt. Does she have graves which can be defined by the rages.

The detail is scant. The OP doesn't want to provide any more detail. Okay.

But can we maybe try and rule out all the possible explanations before heading straight to the exit plan.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

A question for you OP:-

Does she act in the same ways to people in the outside world or do you solely bear the brunt of her verbal abuse?.

[Clouddancer]

"it resulted in the standard intensely angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me,"

This sounds like my mother who told me that my father (and therefore having us) had screwed up her life. My father was an alcoholic, but in the end, she stayed with him because she felt she had to. I think the 'Just don't, leave!' comments are revealing. She is saying what she thinks. She is intensely unhappy, it is expressing itself as anger, she doesn't want to be in the marriage. The problem is she is a SAHM, she has no independent income, so she feels utterly trapped. The only way out is if he goes.

Not saying it makes her behaviour better, but the Op probably thinks he is providing a nice home, it is his weekend time off, why is she making a fuss about him forgetting to do X, and she is probably thinking he never listens to me, he doesn't take care of what I ask him to do, I have no life, he gets to go out and do a job and doesn't appreciate me and he says, what are you making such a fuss about etc etc etc and he expects her to forget about it because his life is fine, and she is over-reating anyway, but she can't forget about it because her life is not fine.

I agree that she needs a better way to manage stress, because for as long as she just screams out her anger at the situation, it will not get better, and yes, it is abusive. Of course it may be that she just enjoys telling the OP that he is rubbish and it is fun to be unhappy for four days, but honestly, I think she sounds miserable, and she is making everyone else miserable.

[capsium]

It is not defensible to treat someone like this.

I never said it was. However everybody is fallible and everybody makes mistakes.

I do not myself think the OP is panicking; like many people in such situations he is conflicted; what does he do for the best for all concerned?.

Neither did I and I don't believe he is. However to end a relationship without even considering ways to salvage it, possible causes which can be eliminated, would IMO be panicking. Everything should be explored.

IME people such as the OP's wife should not be 'written off' so easily. This is not aimed at the OP but to posters who, not knowing the exact situation have advised he ends the relationship because she had experienced violence in the family as a child. I speak honestly when I say people can recover from past traumas.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I can only go by the information that has been provided directly by the OP and even he has stated he was expecting counsel like my own.

OPs wife is consumed with rage when things do not go her way.

A minor disagreement escalated into what he describes as a angry tirade of abuse about how rubbish I am, how she had wasted her life with me, etc. She literally looked like she is going to explode with anger. Sunday was complete silence except for continued snide comments, Monday not much better and we almost had a civil conversation last night. I did asked "how am I meant to live like this" and got told "don't! just leave!".

Going on past form she will be nice as pie by this evening or tomorrow morning and it will be like it never happened. This is precisely how abusers operate; they do the nice/nasty cycle very well but it is a continuous cycle.

OP's stated of his wife that it does seem she was treated much like this as a child - talks about how her parents always put her down etc.

How else can this be explained; my counsel was also for OP to call Mankind and talk to them. He can only help his own self ultimately; he is too close to the situation to be of any real use to her.

[TwinklySprout]

The bottom line is whether she acknowledges that there is a problem and is willing to take difficult steps to change. In your shoes, my decision about whether to stay or go would be based on the answer to that. You cannot stop someone with an anger problem being angry. Only they can do that.

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

Twinkly spout says it well.

[capsium]

Attila As I have said people can overcome a lot. Calling Mankind may be useful, it may not. I would not say that you cannot help if you are close to the situation. Being close is what gives you all the information.

Labeling his wife as an 'abuser' is tricky. It suggests that her behaviour will never improve. I do not think you can say this at this stage. All she has done so far is argue, shout and sulk. Something which we all do, occasionally, to a greater or lesser degree. There has been no violence so far, so she does have some degree of self control.

I know EA can be awful also. However it is difficult to say whether this is EA as an outsider. If there has been a cause, such as depression or a change in lifestyle that the wife is deeply unhappy about (taking the role as main carer for example), once this is alleviated the behaviour would improve.

[unlucky83]

Hmmm - The thing that has jumped out to me is the 'don't - just leave' comment...that makes me think that maybe you aren't as helpful as you think you are? Maybe you need to talk to her and find out more how she feels ...maybe think about couple counseling...
I am not saying she isn't completely in the wrong, has anger problems etc ...is abusive - maybe that is the case - but that rather sounds like she wouldn't miss you being around...which makes me think why?
There is a book called 'wifework' that is worth a read...
My DP infuriates me sometimes. (I'm a SAHM, he's WOHP) I have felt like that it would be easier without him around and I couldn't put my finger on exactly why but small things (like forgetting something that would only inconvenienced me for 30 s) would make my blood boil....reading even a bit of Wifework made me really see why -and we are working on it...
Is she happy being a SAHM? Or would she love to be able to go back to work -but it is difficult because of after school/childcare/covering sickness etc ...(and maybe even being a SAHP has damaged her career prospects). Is she bored and fed up - not enjoying it, got it more or less under control, but would like a break and then you 'help' by doing XYZ 'for her'....
An example- from my DP - is cook. He will cook dinner but actually it is what he wants to eat - not me or the DCs - we would be happy -even happier- with something less fancy ...and he create lots of washing up/mess...Sometimes he cooked so I wash up (marginally prefer this one) - or he might put (randomly throw!) some things in the dishwasher (he seems to think pixies live in there separating and cleaning the individual items ) and hand wash up the excess - which he piles up on the draining board until overflowing (things do fall off and break)...and leaves for me to put away...
You see he had the very best of intentions - but he hasn't actually helped! He has done the opposite- it would have been easier and quicker for me to cook a simple meal for the family and tidy up.
Add to that I am then supposed to be grateful for the 'help' (even if not actually said) - and then add in 'I will look after DC for you while you ...'
Maybe something like that is going on ...and she doesn't really know how to verbalise it - or pin point the exact annoyance...it is just there... simmering frustration, resentment, anger ...
And I would say the same if it was a DW working out of home and a DH as a SAHP ...

[rainbowsmiles]

I agree unlucky.

My husband would be "helpful" putting washes on, but he would put half a wash on or leave things damp in tumble drier or he'd say he'd done the washing then I'd go out and he'd have left all of the school clothes in the dirty washing but put through some towels. Not helpful.

He is now a thinking washer but we had many a fight over his "helpfulness".

The Op seems pretty dismissive of his wife's role. Anger is a corrosive dangerous emotion within a marriage but sometimes it can be understood.

I think there is more to this dynamic than the simple conclusion she is an abuser. For all we know she has lost it 3 times in the last 5 years.
It's as reasonable an assumption as anything else.

[sufferingtoo]

Thank you all for your thoughts - which have given me loads to think about. I can actually see a lot of the points raised and there is a whole spectrum of causes and effects to consider.

I do need to reflect on my role in this situation and what I have to do to tackle this.

I can understand the whole "it may be minor to you" and the "you may think you help but do you really comments" and that is only really for me to decide. I think I will pluck up the courage to ring Mankind or the like - just to get another prospective.

I lurk here often and had got myself pretty set in my mind that this was EA and that I should leave etc from reading the responses to other threads. I don't know if it is because a man is posting but it is good to read comments that suggest other alternatives that may work and are food for thought.

[sufferingtoo]

Rainbow - sorry could not let that one go.

I am not in any way dismissive of her role - equally as important as mine (I presume you will agree).

For clarity -
wash/dry/fold/put away - that is called doing the washing.

agree on meal/shop if required/prepare/cook/clear up (as you go cos I hate leaving it)/ dishwasher/back in cupboards - that is called cooking dinner.

She does this about once a month (and not I do not think it is hormone related as it is not regular but I am no doctor).

[capsium]

Hope it all goes well for you suffering and you get to the bottom of it.

I don't often post on the relationship threads but I would probably have said the same to a woman in your situation.