Suspicious DH wants to (or has?) visited a prostitute??!

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Question: I have become suspicious that DH may have visited a prostitute but have no proof and am now wondering if I'm just being paranoid?

Background
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Family life: Have been married to DH for almost 5 years and have a DS who is nearly 4 years old. Very happy family life and we all get along very well with each other and our extended families.

Communication: DH and I are able to talk about everything. I don't even mind him watching porn and have watched the more sensual material with him. I think I'm very liberal and when he's away on extended trips I am fine with him self-pleasuring (sorry if that's too explicit?).

Sex life: Very good though maybe not as active or adventuress as it once was but I think that's normal as time goes on. We have very compatible sex drives and are well suited.

DH was away at a conference (does this often as he's an academic) and phoned me quite excitedly to tell me that a woman had tried to flirt with him at the hotel bar. His ego was inflated and we both had a little laugh about his attractiveness (all good natured).

Then about an hour later he phoned me up to say his colleague had told him that the woman flirting with him was actually a prostitute. He sounded both embarrassed and proud at the same time in the sense that he must look like he has a lot of money. Anyway, we both had a laugh about it.

Fast forward a few weeks and I'm on his laptop to quickly check my email but when I open it, it opens to the last page he browsed, which was a pornographic video called "Tonight's Girlfriend" which is about about a prostitute visiting a man in his hotel room.

I asked him about it and he said that ever since he'd met a real life one he'd started looking a videos for that sort of scenario. He was very open about it. We then, very casually, started talking about fantasies, and he asked me if one time I'd be wiling to role-play a prostitute for him.

Before his encounter at the hotel, I would've thought nothing of it and done it but now it's like he wants me to be the woman he met? I asked if he had ever visited a prostitute and he said that he had not but that when we was single he had thought about it. He has worked on a national sex project and says that he is referring only to those who consent, not the ones who are forced against their will to do it.

He then tells me that he has friends who've visited prostitutes but he wouldn't say who claiming that was not his secret to reveal. I asked if they were married friends and he said some were. I was a bit shocked because I know all his friends and all of them are good guys as far as I can tell.

And now I'm thinking that if he has friends who have visited prositiutes, and he's watching porn about it, and fantasing about it, does that mean that he has in the past, or wants to in the future, visit them?

I've put all this to him and he says I'm being paranoid and that if he was going to cheat he wouldn't be so open about it now would he? He has said that as it's worrying me that he wouldn't ask me to do the role-play and that he'd do his best to stop looking at that type of porn too but would let me know if he did.

He has twice told me that he has looked at that porn since but that he is trying to stop. He says he has no wish to ever cheat on me.

Sorry that this post is so long, I just wish I could stop thinking about this... maybe if he was being secretive I would feel less guilty about my suspicions but he's just so open about everything with me, it makes me feel silly.

I think he'd be both insulted and hurt if I asked him for money in exchange for sex ... yes, and this is why I suggested it.

With as relaxed & equal a relationship as you portray, I feel it makes a very good starting point for a discussion of what appeals so greatly about the idea of using an escort's body for sex. He would be insulted and hurt if you were to charge him £80 a shag. So - why? Why would it be insulting for you to charge money for sex, yet flattering or exciting to pay a stranger for it? Which of you does he see as more exciting, sexually: the woman he knows & loves, or the fiscally-motivated stranger? Why is that: does he see the escort as less of a woman, more a sex toy? How can he square that with his relations to women in general?

It looks important that you both examine your frame of reference on this ... or allow some kind of warped mystification about bought sex to continue, in which case you'd better brace yourself for future developments.

I think he sounds immature and insecure beyond belief.

Op if you have such an open and frank relationship, why haven't you asked him if he shagged the prostitute or asked him why he is behaving in this absurd manner?

Not sure why when people get married they feel they has ownership over their partners. A belief that all of the person becomes yours some how . You mentioned at the start of your post that you didnt mind that your husband masturbates . So many women talk like this. Why do they think they even have a right to an opinion on the matter on something so personal. I can appreciate you dont want your husband with a prostitute but asking him to stop watching porn screams to me to be nun of your business. Think its time to take a step back and relax .

It doesn't sound like he's slept with a prostitute, just that the thought of that encounter is sexually arousing. There quite a big difference to being aroused by a scenario to actually doing it.
You both seem very open with each other so I can only assume you haven't directly asked him because maybe you don't want to hear the answer or you don't want to see him lie or you don't want to hear that he'd really like to do it or because asking him would mean that you don't trust him.

Pinkpaws I think when she says she doesn't mind she doesn't mean she gives him permission and allows him to do it and without this permission he'd be forbidden to do it...just that it doesn't bother her that he does it.

To be totally honest OP, I doubt the scenario he described happened: it sounds as if it is a fantasy he likes the sound of and used this as a way into it.

Trust me, prostitutes do not solicit in classy hotel bars, particularly not high class escorts.

I don't want this discussion to veer towards a debate on the morality of prostitution. I am not against sex workers and as a former police officer know the difference between those who are forced into the profession and those who choose it willingly. There is a huge difference between the two and I thus disagree with those who do not / will not see the distinction. This is based on both first hand experiences on the front lines and through training with various organisations as part of the job. DH and I have the same view point on this.

@Offred: I agree that some privacy is good but I wouldn't view this situation as something to keep secret about. To me, that would be unhealthy. Much better to discuss it and thus understand each other better. I agree that I need to be more exact in setting the boundary on this situation however.

@GarlicReverses: I think he would be insulted and hurt because that's taking the fantasy from something fun to something toxic, in terms of using sex as a weapon so to speak. That is something both of us have agreed never to do.

@SirRaymondClench: As I have said in earlier posts, I have asked him directly. To summarise he said no he has not slept with a prostitute. Also he says he has no intention to do so. The interesting question of why he is acting this way is, he says, that he likes the idea of something naughty and also because he wonders what it would be like. I'm not a fan of this second point.

@pinkpaws: I don't want him feeling like he has to do it in secret, I feel that would be terrible. I haven't asked him to stop watching porn, just one type that makes me feel uncomfortable for the reasons mentioned earlier.

@VeryStressedMum: That is exactly correct, yes.

@serenshiningstar: I only encountered prostitutes maybe two or three times at a hotel when called by the manger so it does happen but either it really is rare or the hotel handles the situation themselves. This is the only time he has ever encountered a prostitute in person and he has been staying at hotels as part of his job for about maybe ten years. He knows that I wouldn't have had a problem with this fantasy prior to meeting this woman so I don't think that's it at all (I just don't like the effect meeting her has had on him).

Didn't realise you had actually asked him outright, should read the posts more carefully.
Are you uncomfortable because you feel he wants to have sex with that particular woman (I'm not saying that he does just you may feel that) or by him saying he wants to with a prostitute the fantasy involves having sex with a woman that is not you, which is a bit different to saying he fantasises about being tied up and whipped, or whatever, which more than likely involves only you.

@VeryStressedMum: Yes, I was feeling like he wanted to have sex with that particular woman.

He got home late last night but I told him earlier that I would like to have another discussion about this and even though he was tired he agreed that we needed to do this again.

This thread has clarified something for me. I'm not really worried about the type of porn or the fantasy or any of that.

I am feeling jealous of this woman he briefly met because of the effect she has had on him.

He asked me how he could put my mind at ease and honestly I don't know because I've not felt this way before with him. We did have a good long talk and I do feel better now that he realises the way it has made me feel (he was apologetic and disappointed that he didn't see it earlier though I should have communicated this better perhaps).

Neither of us know what to do next but it feels good to have worked out exactly what the issue for me is and to have him recognise that and want to make it better. No idea how to proceed though.

It's not that I don't see the distinction between sex workers and trafficking it is I draw the distinction between consensual sex and paying for sex. Trafficking is obviously worse because the women have not even had an opportunity to choose but having had an opportunity to choose does not mean it is not exploitative.

The women are not consenting to sex, they are choosing to work in the sex industry - that's the important distinction. When the encounter is a transaction or a service provides for money it makes it impossible for the sex to be consensual. As a society we know the damage of non-consensual sex and criminalise it. This is part of the same thing. Same as you can't consent to sell your kidney, which is why this is illegal (consent issues), and you can't consent to being seriously assaulted, you similarly can't consent to sell your body and we should be concerned about exploitation whether or not the actual women involved are choosing to sell sex.

I don't know why people struggle with this argument and I do think people should consider it in their views on prostitution.

But I am glad you've been able to crystallise what the issue actually is for you.

I don't understand your post Offred, sorry.

Well, it's simple really, to give effective consent to sex you must give free consent and also be free to draw your own boundaries. You can't give free consent and your ability to draw your own boundaries is limited if you are being paid to provide a service.

Sex that is sold is therefore sex without the effective consent of the sex worker who, if she has chosen to work in the sex industry, is agreeing to provide a service which means she cannot give effective consent to the sex she has as part of her work.

Trafficked women are not even agreeing to provide a service, this is much worse but just because, probably the majority of sex workers, are choosing to sell sex (usually for economic reasons) it doesn't mean they are not being exploited or that this is fine.

Look at Thailand too, which is really famous for it's sex industry. Sex work is such a gendered issue and there is such inequality and poverty there that men are mutilating their bodies in order to work in the sex industry or to find wealthy European men to financially support them.

The op's husband recognised the distinction. When he was approached initially he thought it was because she was attracted to him. When he discovered she was a prostitute he was again flattered because he thought it meant he must look wealthy.

Trafficking is wrong and I don't know anyone who could make an argument for it - awful.

What I don't understand though is the argument that I think you're making (and I'm still not completely clear so apologies if I have misunderstood) which is that when you sell your body for sex, you are not giving consent because you don't know what the client wants? That's true of consensual sex as well.

Besides, working girls do make it clear usually what they will provide. And they are not being forced - what I mean is that were an escort to receive a booking, walk to the hotel room and then when the man opens the door decide 'no' she is still free to walk away.

If she is not through threat of violence then that is wrong, but there are a number of areas in the sex industry where this would never happen.

@Offred: I've not met any decent person who thought trafficking was morally acceptable, even the pimps (some of whom have been women) know it is wrong. So leaving that to one side, then for those who independently choose to become sex-workers it clearly is a case of giving consent subject to their own boundaries and their clients must respect those in order for their encounter to continue. The sex-worker has the power to so no at any point and then the encounter must end otherwise the client is breaking the law (e.g. committing a sexual assault).

I have met a number of sex workers who have chosen this profession (it's legal under certain circumstances and to be honest as long as there are no complaints it's not a priority for the authorities); they are very independent and able to make their own choices.

Again, I'm talking about those who freely choose to become sex workers and some do make it their career.

Back on topic: Yes, thank you, I too am happy to have worked out the real issue for me here. I trust my husband - I just wish I wasn't feeling so jealous of someone he knew for all of 5 minutes which I know is silly and I need to figure out a way to deal with it.

Correction: Ok, maybe not all pimps think of trafficking as wrong. I was just thinking of the ones I've encountered and then I thought of a seminar I went to with the stories about one woman pimp who had no problem with it. Shouldn't have generalised there.

I know. I'm saying they are choosing to work in the sex industry not giving effective consent to sex, which is what I find problematic.

That wold be fair enough if someone (say) worked as a receptionist in a massage parlour and was forced to participate but if someone is working as an escort they are consenting to sex, and if they don't want to, they really don't have to: it might not go down well, and most wouldn't as its money, but they could, they do have that choice.

No it isn't that it is because you don't know what the client wants it is because you are being paid for a service which means your ability to consent is influenced by the exchange of money, which means it is not a free consent.

Same as in any job, you do what is required with you (within reason) even though it often crosses your boundaries of what you'd be prepared to do if you weren't being paid and you perhaps only challenge it if it is really, really bad.

It's a dangerous thing to extrapolate more widely to society that choice equals no exploitation anyway even without the consent issue, which to me makes sex work always exploitative.

To say that choice to do something means a person cannot be being exploited means you risk ignoring abusive relationships, including abusive intimate partners and abusive employers, and placing the blame/responsibility on the victim of the abuse for choosing to enter the relationship. You may give license to exploiters to do whatever they want to someone who has chosen to give some power to them.

It is possible to recognise and respect a person who has made a choice to enter the sex industry whilst condemning the sex industry as exploitative. I think what people have a problem with is seeing women who feel protective of their personal choice and who are strong and articulate and don't fit a stereotype of a cowed trafficked slave, talking about their choice in an empowered way. They struggle to deal with the clever, articulate and respectable woman in front of them and how that matches with their views of what exploitation is. They ultimately conclude that someone like her, with such empowerment as an individual and such a good personal argument about why it is worth it for her, couldn't be being exploited.

Yes, choosing to sell sex economically empowers some women because it gives them access to money they would not otherwise have had. But they sell their right to sexual empowerment/autonomy. Economic empowerment does not mean the industry is not exploitative or that it is objectively empowering or widely empowering in terms of society or women's position in society.

We're all being exploited for profit in any work we do given we live in a capitalist economy. I think exploiting someone's sexual autonomy is even worse.

@Offred: I disagree, they say they will exchange a sexual service (not necessarily sex) in exchange for money but only on their terms. They therefore stay in control at all times and only do what they are OK with. Anyway, I think this discussion would be more appropriate in a different thread.

They aren't consenting to sex working as an escort, they are choosing to do sex work. It might seem like a very subtle difference (or some might not see a difference at all) but I think it is a massive one. I think people who don't see a difference maybe don't really understand sexual consent which is why I think it is a problematic view.

They do what they are ok with in the context of them having agreed to provide a sexual service. I'm not arguing that they cannot exercise choice or have no control. I'm arguing that they are exercising choices but within the context of a monetary transaction and work which provides them their income. That this is not the same as consent and that the choices about what the worker will do will be influenced by that fact it is work.

I think I see what you mean Offred, although you're probably right insofar as I'm not sure what you mean about consent, but do you mean they wouldn't consent to doing it if money wasn't involved?

they aren't consenting to sex when* working as an escort