"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Attilla and Hissy - yes I have spoken to my brother re our parents. My brother is not like them at all. He is however deep in FOG and whilst he fully understands why i cut contact with mum, he feels sorry for dad. I think more so now, as he is not only seen as mum's victim, but i have also rejected him. We had a few sharp words before Christmas cos dad was sad i hadn't sent a card and was threatening not to go to the wedding, but since been fine, tho i think he still feels i am being a bit harsh. I love him and his future wife loads and would be devastated if i didn't go to the wedding.

When stressed i do think of the worst case scenarios so i am well aware that none of the scenarios i have given may not even occur and i could just be worrying too much. We have already booked our hotel and my husband is going with me too. I am sitting with my sister and partner so i do have some support there. In all likelihood, i think the day will be more awkward than full-blown war, and i have mentally told myself that if it was really awful i would just leave quietly than have some big row and the wedding day be spoiled.

I fully intend to go to the wedding and am surprised people say not to go. I have had some great advice on here in the past tho, so even if you think i am crazy for going, do you have any stock answers i can use incase people ask me about it? Just to say i am not going to discuss it, but in a nice way?

How about 'there are 2 sides to every story, I dare say you've heard one side only'

And 'these situations are always more complicated than you'd have been led to believe,'

And in all cases 'now is certainly NOT the time to discuss this subject'

I was taked by surprise at my GM's wake, and the shock of hearing how supporting and wonderful my mother had been telling everyone she'd been toward me provoked such a huge amount of guffaws, that I actually had to quietly clarify a few points.

They are now fully in the picture. :)

What about "oh come now, you don't want to ruin a perfectly lovely day discussing my batshit mad family..."

Hi, sorry been one of those evenings where I go one way with one Dc and DH goes the other! Back now and chance to read and think.
Thank you so much for taking time to listen and advise.
Attila, to be fair I do think kids adore my mother. DD in particular worships her, she also has a short memory and is very quick to forgive anyone anything as she is a happy little soul. I have felt loved by mum, maybe not all the time and certainly I have always felt I have needed to compete with first my brother and now with L for attention.
DH would be high fiving you and Hissy as he has said similar before. You see a part of me hopes that Mum isn't doing this spitefully, that it's just oversight. She always says I am independent and have never really needed her. L is very needy and I do think that feeds my mums ego.
Actually writing down what it has been like and realising it isn't just me being jealous and over sensitive has been a bit overwhelming. I always feel so guilty after saying anything, like I'm making a big deal out nothing. And going NC seems so final.

Her actions are not those of someone who adores your child.

She is actively hoovering this poor child, who is desperate for her acceptance/approval, pulling her in closer so she can hurt her again.

Hurting her hurts YOU. And you are her main target.

Can you see the beginnings of a truly fucked up dynamic here?

Your dd is collateral damage. Worse, it may be that your dm recruits her and she ends up rejecting you and joining forces with her to abuse you.

Seen it happen a gazillion times sadly.

Listen to your H, he's not blinded by FOG.

((hug)))

The independent comment? I get/got that.

When you're emotionally neglected, you learn to be independent... see where the chicken and the egg are here?

Thank you Hissy. Think I need to absorb this properly. Guess it's weird to think my feelings are actually valid.
Just something that has occurred to me tonight- what seems to be the pattern in parents choosing a golden child/scapegoat? Is there any pattern?
Thank you again for your kindness.

Thanks Hissy for the suggested comments, will definately be using some of those if needed.

Cat - i agree with all Hissy says. With regard to scapegoat/ golden child, i'm not sure if there is a pattern. Within my family we seemed to be given those labels from a very young age so i doubt it was down to what any of us did/ our personalities. But of course i could be wrong

Thanks Milly. I will be back, being here has already given me a boost. Oh and to all of you

milly if you go to the wedding, can you plan ahead of time how to leave if it becomes unpleasant? Having an escape route sounds vital. hissy's suggestoins are really good but leaving, if it all gets too much, is also valid.

Just gently warn your brother that you will be going to the wedding for his sake, but that if you're the focus of a lot of anger then you will be best off out of it, and it really isnt a reflection on him and his bride.

cats it sounds awful. I completely agree with attilla and hissy that actually your mother is not good for your daughter. If she hasn't already picked up that she's very much second best then she will soon, and as you know that really hurts, long term.

Like the others I think you need to stop chasing after L. You've done your best. Back off and match -her- efforts towards -you- instead of hoping that she will match -your- efforts towards her.

It sounds like you are yearning for your mother's love and unconditional acceptance but your mother has always and will always choose L over you. I think you need to give yoruself time and space to be sad over this. To grieve. Because at the moment you're chasing a goal that is forever out of your reach, the fair and equal love that you hope for from her. Your mother plays favourites and always has, that just isn't going to change.

And I'll say again that I really don't think your mother is good for your daughter.

You don't need to make a song and dance about going no contact. Just quietly make less effort to see her. it will hurt, I'm afraid, but it's a more constructive way forward than hoping for the solid basis of mother-daughter unconditional love that just isn't there.

cats

Re this comment:-
"You see a part of me hopes that Mum isn't doing this spitefully, that it's just oversight".

No, your mother is spiteful and not doing this out of some oversight on her part; all of her actions are deliberate. I do not think you still really can believe or even want to believe that this woman, your mother, can do and say such awful things so casually. Also you are to an extent still in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to your mother. You cannot though deny the body of evidence you see in front of you. She continues to triangulate you all even now; this is a common tactic used by narcissists to further maintain control. She does not like the fact that you are more independent of her but that also happened because you were and remain emotionally neglected by her.

The biggest regret you may well come to have is actually allowing your mother to have any sort of a relationship with your children (perhaps also out of some forlorn hope that she would behave better this time around than she was when you were a child). She will also likely want to "steal" your DD away from you; she's already being manipulated here by this woman. Do not think this could not happen, I have also seen examples of this on here as well and the damage is massive.

I can only reiterate what Hissy has written; your DD is collateral damage and your mother does not care who she hurts in order to further hurt you.

Do read up further on narcissistic personality disorder.

Milly

I think you will also need to warn your brother that you may not be able to stay for the entire day.

A Plan B of action needs to be figured out and decided by you in advance.

Hi all, I've lurked here for a long time but wasn't sure whether I belonged or not...

My mum and her husband have just been for a visit. They were only here for four days (two whole days, two travel days) but I am an emotional wreck. I feel totally drained, and doubting myself and my reactions - and incredibly sad. It seems to get worse every time I see her. I seriously think I need some kind of therapy, but it being the Easter holidays I have the kids at home with me.

Seeing her unlocks a lifetime of pain from childhood and beyond (not her fault, but she enabled it...) and I just don't know how to deal with it. I have so many intrusive, bleak thoughts after spending time together.

Sorry I haven't given much information as DD is clamouring for attention... and it's such a long and sad story. But please, any advice on one positive thing I can do to move through this would be so much appreciated.

Currer, try to distract yourself for now. reward yourself for getting through it all and try and get your old self back.

Your recognition of the fact that all is not right is the very first step in your journey to healing. it will be tough at times, but it really IS worth it. Try to focus on that.

for all the desire that I had NOT to have ever found out the truth of my family dynamic, and all the pain it caused me during that realisation, i prefer to live in the truthful world, where normal is the every day.

I will never again watch as my son is manipulated by these people, I will never again have to hear a shitty comment designed to make me crumble by those who should make MORE of an effort for me 'because i'm family' not less.

Come back and talk when you have a moment, we'll help you sort all this stuff out in your head!

Thanks Meera and Attilla for the extra advice. I am very grateful. I have already decided that worst case scenario, i will leave early. However, i hadn't thought to prewarn my brother of this possibility and i will do so, just incase.

The one positive thing is that it shows, yet again, that for me, going nc was the best thing to do. Just the stress of seeing everyone at the wedding has brought back some of the anxiety I used to feel all the time, the comfort eating, sleeplessness, lethargy and depression, migraines, thoughts of self-harm (though not acting on this), snapping at my DH etc are all back again. Just the thought of being close to the horrid woman that is my mum makes me feel sick. Not that I had any doubt before, but will never go back to having contact again.

Thank you Hissy. That was helpful to think of rewarding myself for just getting through the past few days, and getting my old self back.

My mum isn't toxic or nasty - she doesn't do anything wrong as such. She is just not there for me as a mother should be - or at least she is only there on her own terms (or her husband's terms). I sort of feel invisible and negated in subtle ways. She talks all the time and comments on everything - yet I can be feeling at my lowest and she won't even ask how I am. My son has been diagnosed with SN so it's been a very tough couple of years... I know she cares in her own way, and she definitely loves the kids, but she is unable to say anything comforting or reassuring to me, or take any proactive action to help.

She had a very difficult marriage with my dad (they got together and had me when they were teenagers). My dad was depressed and unstable - he used to threaten suicide throughout their marriage. As I became older I realised that his needs / their marriage always came first. Yet, when my dad wasn't there I always felt my mum and I were very close... I sort of became her confidant, more like sisters than mother and daughter... and I realise now that was quite messed up.

My dad died when I was 20... my mum went through a period of independence but then very quickly got together with someone else, and ended up following him to the other side of the country. She is quite isolated now and co-dependent... we can't even stay with them when we visit. She has changed so much over the past few years and it just feels like I've lost my mum.

I would like to feel there is hope to heal from the pain of the past... but family visits make it all feel very present.

Hello again I just needed to come back and vent

She rang this morning and asked me to call her. I text her and said we were all fine but I wasn't going to call her.

Then she sent this long whiney text saying she doesn't know what she's done wrong and will I please tell her. She's my mum and she loves me and 'cannot bear to not speak to you on my birthday'

I've so enjoyed my weeks without her

Don't EVER react to ANY message Mozzchops - she's reeled you in there!

I'm your Mother, I love you, I cannot bear to not speak to you on my birthday'

See the words that are important to her here?

it's all emotional manipulation and guilt tripping.

don't ever respond to any communcations from her again. everything on YOUR terms.

mozzchops ... get a bottle of wine tonight and some good company and raise a toast to how enjoyable life is without destructive people poisoning it. And keep right on makign a conscious decision to ignore her and drink the odd glass of good wine.

Thank you, I know you're right and I have resisted calling her and getting into a slanging match.
I will send her a birthday card and nothing further

Just thought I'd check in and say hello. Things here have been quiet sincen Mother's Day on the DM front. She's got DD again today and tomorrow and for the first time in ages I haven't felt anxious about having to see/speak to her. I think DM has been busy and this in turn means she's happy. I know Atilla will think I'm being too soft and making excuses, but I do think middle-age boredom has a lot to do with all this.

There are other dramas going on at the moment (my work, DH's family, DSSis) so there's more than enough to keep us occupied but for once there is no negativity to or from the direction of DM and I feel stable enough to not be considering counselling at the mo - which is good as it felt too big and emotional to deal with. I suspect things will blow up again at some point, I suspect I will consider counselling again in the near future, I suspect I'll never be 100% happy with the relationship that DM and I have but for time-being we're coasting along ok (which is as good as it can be).

I'm working on a few things internally too - I need to get a more healthier, productive and pro-active mindset so am doing that 100 Happy Days challenge and also trying not to overthink things. I saw a thing on Pinterest the other day that said I've got 99 problems and 86 of them are completely made up scenarios in my head that I'm stressing about for absolutely no logical reason. which is oh-so apt for me. Not sure how I bust this one but where there's a will there's a way right?

So anyway, things are calm and kind for now which will do me. I don't feel on tenterhooks at all which is how I was a few weeks back.

Yet again I've not been able to read back of offer anything of use to anyone else, but thought I'd stick my head in anyway.

Just wondering if I could ask for a little cheerlead from others in the same boat?
Long story short, a situation with DM and arch-nemesis/golden child/DMs co-conspirator/manipulator is about to come to a head....despite being guilt-tripped in every which way, I am about to make a stand and not attend an event which will construed as a totally public act of defiance by DM and probably put me beyond the pale with immediate family, her friends and possibly my beloved godmother (tho am hoping she will understand).
My DH totally supports me in this and we, our DD and little 6week DD will be fine and that is all that really matters.

It may mean that both DBs will not meet new baby...tho I have left door open for eldest to do so while they visit.

I know I will take the blame for this and be publicly portrayed as worst daughter ever. (seriously)
I know if I rolled over and went I would forever live with having been finally 'brought under control'.

I haven't explained the complex backstory and detail here but does this sound familiar to anyone here and if so please could you remind me I need to be courageous and stand up to those who have abused oppressed and controlled me for the sake of myself and those I truly love and who love me?

Thanks in advance and love to you all

I know I will take the blame for this and be publicly portrayed as worst daughter ever. (seriously)
I know if I rolled over and went I would forever live with having been finally 'brought under control'.

OK, so go with what you know....

You KNOW they won't like you NOT behaving, and you know they'll bad mouth you. You have NOTHING to lose here then, do you?

what you have to work out here is WHY their opinion of you matters, when no matter what you do/say/are/are not makes no difference whatsoever.

Can you picture yourself as you are now?, all tense, frightened and worried? shoulders tensed? back stiff? legs and arms? Tight knot in your tummy? feeling sick with fear?

yes?

Now look at why you are feeling like this. THEY are making YOU feel like this because THEY want you to. It makes them HAPPY to know you feel like this.

On the other hand...Your DH knows they are wrong, you too know they are wrong..

NOW!...

Let go. just let go. know that you are doing the right thing, that your H supports you and the children will be fine. Know that YOU will be OK.

Why will you be ok? because you were OK before they started guilting you, and the only difference in how you felt before and now is the fact that these shitty people who want you to be unhappy have made you feel bad.

You have done all you can. You have left doors open, and are placing trust in those that you hope will understand. Whether they do respond you as you hope or not is THEIR choice, nothing you can do to make them do what you would like them to do. Now is the time to let go and let them be the people they want to be.

Remember that those who mind don't matter, and those that matter don't mind.

Thank you so so much for taking the time and trouble to read and reply Hissy...to have someone outside of the situation validate and encourage is worth so much.
I do feel frightened, yes...and a million other things that are keeping me awake when my tiny baby has long gone back to sleep...not good that I am still letting them have this much power to spoil what should be a joyous time...
Why do people like this behave in this way? Why do they want to hurt us scapegoats over and again? Is there a common reason/s or various individual reasons. Trying to understand so I can rise above it.

You'll never understand it tbh, because you're not them.

Even if you ask them, who's to know if they don't rewrite the whole history to make themselves look better.

All you can do is find your own truth and cling to it. It'll see you through.

Anything you decide can be changed if the situation demands it. You control your life, you decide who's in it, and why.