"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

You write beautifully, CovertOps. This stood out for me in regards to my mother: my father never used drink or drugs as a prop for his despair, just his children, we were his means of dissociating from and numbing the pain of being him. But the pain is not our job, as offspring, to fix.

DBro is having therapy to talk thru all this stuff ad the therapist says DM has narcissistic traits definitely.

Thank you, everyone who has responded.

CovertOps, I found what you wrote really brought me back to feeling stronger. It all fits. Thank you for taking the time to deconstruct the behaviours. It's so easy to get lost in it when it's all around you.

hissy, attilla: I have extremely strong boundaries with my mother. I spent an awful long time in therapy dealing with her and her legacy; she is borderline and is by far the more difficult of the two (they're long divorced, by the way). That took some doing, as you can imagine.

I now face the issue of my father. I know what to do. But I'm sometimes overwhelmed by the sheer amount of blood, sweat and tears it takes to get proper boundaries in place. I resent the hell out of being the person who has to deal with it, when it's not my personality disorder.

The best bit is, he's a therapist. Yes. I know. Imagine how easy that makes dealing with him.

Yes, two days is too much. Next time I need to put limits on it. This is another one of his things, like arriving early. He can invite himself for four days at a time, easily. I always forget how awful the last time was, and then when it happens again I think 'Never, never again.' We had him for Christmas once. That's not happening again.

CovertOps, you are absolutely right about the jealousy over positive relationships etc. My brother thinks Dad's got worse as we've grown up. Now we're adults he finds it more and more hard to feel superior to us, so he deals with his feelings of inadequacy by belittling us. I get it worse because I'm female. He has an atrocious attitude to women.

The family dynamic is that I was the golden child (firstborn, high achiever, coped by trying to be good), and my brother coped by resisting, rebelling and refusing to engage. My dad identifies me (in fact, often merges me) with my mum, whom he loathes, so I get criticised for being 'like her' a lot. On the other hand, my brother was the apple of his eye as a child. My childhood contained a fair amount of my dad revenging himself on my mum by putting me down.

My DH knows exactly how awful my dad is and is very supportive. My brother thinks I should 'chill out' because Dad's behaviour is 'funny'. He knows it's bad behaviour, but he claims to just let it wash over him. It doesn't help much because it does make me feel like I'm being precious.

I was thinking about going to see 'August: Osage County'. I shall give it a look

Oh, and unanswered questions from attilla:

They arrived separately. They live a long way apart. Dad wanted to come and see the house, so proposed a visit. I didn't think it would be that bad because DB and DH would both be there, and it would be a shared load. However there were great tracts of time when they were at work (DH) or sleeping in (DB) when I had to deal with him on my own. Also, he's fully capable of making boorish and inflammatory comments in company.

hissy, that is an excellent point re DC. I expect I shall be too busy and tired to have anyone in the house for, oooh, ages (forever)

covert: I think for narcs, becoming a therapist offers a great way to feel superior to other people, and to justify their (un)natural desire to judge others. From this position they are tremendously well defended (I must be OK because I did all that therapy, therefore you're the problem) and also very well armed with ways of arguing that it's 'your stuff', not theirs. It is tremendously irritating to hear my dad pontificating about what's wrong with everyone else and arbitrarily assigning personality disorders to people when he is such a prime mess himself.

My mother, wonderfully, also trained as a therapist but spectacularly self-sabotaged by getting into a massive fight with a supervisor just before finishing the course, leaving, and decrying all forms of therapy as 'cults' (this is a repeating behaviour pattern).

God, that story about your father and the garden is ringing some bells. I know exactly what you mean. This morning (he is now gone, thank God) I was outside admiring the beautiful silver furry buds on our little willow tree, and he came up and went underneath it to shake the trunk and see how firmly it was rooted in the ground, asking whether I was 'going to keep it'. He has also asked me what 'those things' were (hellebores and celandines) and then stated that I should 'glyphosate the lot.'

This is what he does. He tramples all over delicate things, rips them out and brutalises them.

I do feel a bit like I'm losing control when it comes to my parents. They've crept back in. And it will only get worse when (if) I have a baby. I do feel I understand their actions now as harmful, and can psychologically resist them (though it obviously makes me hugely angry when it's happening). I just don't want to be around people who attack me any more. I don't get anything from them. I just endure.

I did think the other day that the only time I'll feel truly at peace, calm and safe is when they're both dead. I know that sounds awful, but it's true. Not ever having to deal with any of this again would just be heaven.

I forgot to say: one of the worst things about all of this is knowing that whilst he behaves like a shit towards me and criticises my life and character, I know he's boasting about it to other people ('my daughter got x degree, she does this job, they've just bought a house, here's a picture of it'). I know because I have relatives telling me that Dad's 'told them all about it', in tones that obviously mean he's been rubbing their nose in it a bit. If he can use it to get some reflected glory he will do. If he talks to me about it, though, he's snotty.

I really, really loathe this. I also feel sorry for the other people who have to listen to it, and embarrassed that they're probably sick of hearing about it.

Thanks, Covert. Talking to you has been really useful. It is so inspiring to hear how you've freed yourself and your children too.

The trick for me is not 'forgetting' how awful Dad is. Almost as soon as he's gone I start doubting myself, and feeling guilty for making it obvious I don't want to spend time with him. But it is awful. And next time I'm making plans that involve him, I need to make sure I've got good people with me, I don't stay overnight with him or have him over to stay, and there's an escape route.

If either of them does or says anything to harm my DC that will be it. From the moment I understood what had been happening in our family, I swore that this would be the last generation. The family reboots with me and my DH, and we're not passing any of that toxic shit on.
I have always intended not to leave any children of mine alone with either of my parents, but as Dad has no qualms about being vile to my face or in front of other people, that won't necessarily be preventative. I couldn't bear my children to be used as narcissistic supply, or to pick up toxic messages about their gender, appearance or worth.

My parents did no such thing for me. I remember being put on the train aged 12, alone, to go for a week's stay with my GM (who had been appalling to my M in her childhood, likely causing the BPD). I don't recall anything awful happening, but no-one would have been there to help me if it had.

I thought I'd share my story as I've never told anyone IRL.

My widowed, paternal grandmother committed suicide when I was 4 (sister was 8), leaving a note addressed to my gentle, loving father saying that in getting married, moving 10 miles away and having children, he had abandoned her and it was his fault that she had no option but to kill herself. He found her, she had overdosed. He became a shell of a man and had a nervous breakdown, couldnt work, we became poor, my narcissistic mother (50 by this time and raging and menopausal) was so bitter that she beat us all with yard sticks and shoes, hair brushes and belts, screaming and shouting obscenities at the slightest provocation. All the doors at home had dents in them at head height. i remember my father trying to fill them and paint over them. She fell out with all the neighbours and never spoke to family. She was a highly intelligent woman and I think the bitterness at the hand that life had dealt her was consuming her. We were never close and she never bothered asking me about my life. Such a shame for everyone involved. I often wonder if this affects my relationships now. My sister and I whisper about it from time to time, remembering the horror of it all. My sister used to beat me too until she suddenly started being really nice to me at the age of 16, seemingly overnight. Im not sure what changed but since then, she's done everything and more to make it up to me and I love her.
Crying now! Feels good to get it out and write it down. Neither of us have had children and I think this must be the reason.

single, that is a sodding awful way to grow up. My heart goes out to you

Oh love! How awful! Thanks so much for trusting us to open your heart.

How do you feel now that it's not just you that knows?

This is the beginning of your journey. It all gets better from here.

Would talking to your sister properly about it help you do you think?

Thanks Hissy & Anyone I dont think we can talk about it fully yet, as it's still wrapped up in the grief of the fairly recent death of our parents and the associated guilt that comes from watching their slow, innevitable decline into dementia and helplessness. Ive recently come to realise that this is why I try to 'save' friends and partners - in effect I'm trying to save the child i was (and sister and father) from my mother. I've also come to realise that you cannot bury abuse like that and swallow it down, it just finds a diferent way out (my sister becoming an abuser as this is the behaviour she witnessed) and me 'saving' people, endlessly. Its still so upsetting I'm weeping as I type. I darent go and talk to someone about it as Id simply sob all through the session.
I'd love to hear from anyone in similar circumstances who has come to terms with it. I never even realised that I'd been the victim of abuse until I joined MN and read the Stately Homes thread.

The calls from mil have started again

I guess it's because mothers day is coming and shes probably after an expensive gift that she definitely won't be getting this year!

Have you still got DH phone pumpkin

Does it fill you with glee to hit REJECT CALL

yes I have, and yes it does
Although she has also tried to phone the phone that used to be mine and is now his. So unfortunately he is under a slight fog with the guilt again which is such a shame as it took such hard work to get him out off

Sneak your phone back and block the number from your number.

Keep talking to your H and remind him that the contact is purely for her, and actually is only designed to upset him and his family.

Sneak your phone back and block the number from your number.

Keep talking to your H and remind him that the contact is purely for her, and actually is only designed to upset him and his family.

Thanks hissy will get the number blocked when he gets back from work. He had came out of the fog somewhat before going to work but I know the missed phonecall has got to him as he said he feels guilty.

I reminded him that there is nothing for him to feel guilty about.

Bookmarking

Hi all,

Sorry I've been gone a while. I just really wanted to say this somewhere, and I'm so limited in where I can say it. I just really, really hate my SIL. That is all. /back to hermit hill.

Phew, caught up with the thread. Hello to the new faces.
myriad (sorry I know you've changed your nym) - just to reiterate, once a week is by far enough. I actually find it crazy that your MIL can claim she's missing out! Hold your ground, it's not unreasonable for her to only see her GC once a week.

Covert, I love your way with words. I'm tempted to copy and paste some of it for DH, but I know it won't go well if I did.

single - no words for what an awful start you had to life. This is an excellent place to talk things out though.

Hello all.

I haven't posted for a while so not sure if anyone 'remembers' me. I have a rocky relationship with my mother, though since the beginning of the year things have been fine. Outwardly no one would know any different but things that happened last year which I think have permanently shifted my perception, thoughts and feelings towards her.

As such this year will be the first Mother's Day that I've felt like this and it's niggling at me. I keep seeing cards in shops that say "To My Wonderful Mum" and similar and know that I'll have to choose a card carefully so as not to be hypocritical because I don't feel like that. This will be my third Mother's Day as a mum myself, but DH was abroad for the past two Mother's Days so DD and I just went and spent the day with DM (and DSDad and DBro). At the time it all felt fine, but I remember feeling a twinge of sadness that she didn't acknowledge the fact that I was now a mother too. Saying that I don't think MIL or DSMum who are both very sweet did either perhaps I'm over-thinking it, but I can't help thinking that that was just another typical example of "it's all about DM".

I'm still considering counselling because I'm blaming DM for everything I think say or do. However, at 21w pregnant with DC2 and looking into huge building work on our house I'm not sure if that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back! I'm genuinely confused about what is normal now. On the face of it I had a happy childhood, but I know (mainly thanks to MN) that a lot of the stuff I've experienced, felt and still feel about DM isn't right. I just now don't know what it should've been like so feel like I'm floundering a bit in terms of being a parent myself. I've distanced myself emotionally from DM after the few spats we had last year where all of this stuff became more apparent to me that it wasn't quite how it should be, I feel sad about that and am definitely still under massive FOG, though it's easy to park that when things are just ticking over with no rages/spats/issues/sulking.

Anyway, am waffling now.

Love to those who need it, I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to read back and I certainly don't have any expert advice to give!!

Hello nearlyreadyforstatelyhomes

How are you doing?. So you're at the 21 w mark now!.

I remember you well; you're the lady with the narcissistic mother who brought your DD some shoes that she knew that you would not like and tried to get your Dd to keep secrets re these. Your mother has and continues to overstep any boundary you care to set her.

Did you btw "lose" these shoes?

Your mother is and remains a toxic parent and a deplorably bad grandparent to boot. I think you are slowly beginning to come out of the FOG but you are still somewhat enmeshed in the dynamics here.

I think that counselling for your good self would be helpful but again I would state you need to find someone who fits in with you and your approach. I would also suggest you find a counsellor too who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

If you have never read the website entitled Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers I would suggest you read that as well as reading Children of the Self Absorbed by Nina W Brown.

Honestly I would not bother with sending her any sort of Mothers Day card either because she is not any decent sort of human being at all but I can see why you remain torn over this so would certainly not complain if you did send a generic card. I am fortunate in that my own mother does not like Mothers Day anyway (anyone else?) so am spared that task. And no I would not be buying her a card anyway because she remains on many levels uninterested in my own family unit.