"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's February 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

I'm so sorry, Hester. I can't imagine that pain. Please be gentle to yourself. Without wishing to sound woo, comfort your inner child. You are perfectly entitled to feel your own pain, to stamp your feet and scream if you want to. It's a bad pain, and you don't have to suppress it just because other people have an issue with you feeling pain.

Hester, Im so sorry too

My DC are 19 and nearly 16 now Hester. There was nowhere to discuss this sort of hurt then - even the doctors/midwives didn't handle it well. This probably sounds heartless but I mean it heartfully - if I hadn't had those losses - I wouldn't have the children I got in the end and I can't imagine a life without different children. That's the only way I can rationalise it really. Life works in a funny way and sometimes tests us to the limits of our testingness before we get what we need - not necessarily what we thought we wanted - but what we need to fulfil ourselves.

What you are going through is crap - whether you have a mum to fold you into her heart or not. But we can all support you through albeit virtually.

With love - everyone without a mother's deserves it more than we can tell.

Feeling very touched and moved by so many of these posts, there's a lot of grief here and I can relate to it so much.

Hester, so so sorry to hear. I went through 3 failed cycles and after the 3rd it was a very, very dark time. I don't know if it would help you or not to know that I was nearly 45 when I finally did have DS, after our 4th cycle - at a different clinic. I know that hearing other people's (eventual) success stories doesn't necessarily help, I think the only thing you can do right now is allow yourself to feel all the grief/anger/despair that is there. And as Looking says, try to comfort your inner child in any way you can.

Windmill, your words above are very apposite for me, for reasons it's a bit too painful to go into here, but I understand you and I think your attitude is the opposite of heartless, I think it's the healthiest and most loving possible towards your living DC. And they deserve that, so good for you.

While I wish I had met my DH a lot earlier, and wish I'd been able to have more than one child, I too say to myself that a different life would not have led to DS, and I can't bear to think of a world where he wouldn't exist, so that's my comfort too.

And I will echo Hester's kind words, you absolutely do have the right to be here, what your mother did to you was a form of abuse, emotional abuse, which hurts deeply. "I wasn't allowed to wear pink because it was for pretty girls" - OMG, that is so cruel. That is really so sad. If being on here helps you realise just how wrong her behaviour was/is, then it's a very good thing for you to be here.

for everyone tonight, so much sadness, we all deserve/need a mother's love indeed windmill, although so many of us on here have to find the mother within ourselves for our own hurt child.

Talkinginthedark thank you.

Oh Hester. I so want it all at work out for you. Your aren't quite young enough to be my daughter, but I wish you could be and that I could put you to bed with warm milk and love.

I'm all sorted on the outside; two lovely dc, etc., etc.. But only just starting to get sorted on the inside. 54 soon - not too late.

windmill i wanted to say that I'm sorry for the hard times you had too, glad you have your two now.

Hi ladies.
Sorry to all discussing their lack of a mother and ther losses too. I cannot empathise as I have been bery fortunate in those areas, but I do sympathise with the pain you are dealing with. I hope things work out for you all. All the women on here seem so strong but vulnerable, and lovely :)
I just wanted to let everyone know that dh went to see mil today and sil was there unbeknownst to him. Sil didnt stay long, when she left dh didnt say bye and she muttered something like 'fuck you then' then slammed door behind her. When dh said to his mil that we will be having nothing to do with sil until she apologises, mil asked 'apologises for what?' HA! This is unbelievable . This girl has put lies all over facebook, threatened to hit me, got involved in things that nothing to do with her and lied to me after I was stupid enough to forgive her first time around.
Mil asked dh if i knew he was there !? As if dh would sneak to go see her behind my back,? She said nothing about the arguments though. She was also very vague with dh when he asked about her health ( as we have said she goes on too much about this) so maybe she has took it all on board, or maybe she is simply being spiteful and not telling dh anything at all now regarding her health, despite knowing he will worry. I feel annoyed that dh was asking her lots about her health though as she will prob be thinking its normal to just go on and on about phantom bloody illnesses. Argh. Sorry for rant :/ I'm just so stressed about this now. I feel dh will always be under her clutches to an extent and as long as he is, her behaviour will always be justified in her warped mind :( and as for his scummy sister- aaaaargh!!

*his mum.
Also, dh said to his mum it will all work itself out with me and his mum , but sil will have to say sorry. I am again a bit worried about this as mil is obviously going to assume from this that we are angrier with sil, which is not the case! Mil started all of this sorry mess in first place! I told dh i would try and work things out wi his mum one day for his sake a few weeks back... But as time goes on this feeling does change .

Update on my situation - I've found out my mum has died, a while ago. The circumstances are not clear but I think it is likely she took her own life.

I found out through DH's supportive (and wonderfully normal) family, which is a blessing.

I am feeling many things right now, including relief and resignation. My poor ill mother, it all seems like such a waste. If she had taken steps to make herself better and get help, it could all have been so different.

Wonderful DH and his family are caring for me, as will my friends (I know they will, when I tell them).

Oh Zara love, poor you! Are you ok? You must be feeling all over the place. Anyone would be.

Please keep talking it through with those who support you, and us if it helps!

myriad it sounds really messy and as if SIL is expecting normal behaviour from you, while she can behave as unpleasantly as she likes, while MIL just turns any situation into trouble. I hope you can slowly help your DH step back and see what's going on.

zara, it must have been an odd sort of shock to hear the news. Please be gentle with yourself. Even though the relationship was broken, it'll be a hard time in the next weeks, taking it in and reassessing everything, her and the relationship. So glad you have a supportive husband and friends .

Huge love and sympathy to you, Zara.

Thanks meerka I have tried to get dh to see it all... He does, but not as much as i do.
I just wish we could emigrate to Australia to be honest.
zara my deepest condolences to you and your family. My mother had NC for years with her family. I rember how upset she was when they died though (gran and great gran). Its like she was mourning not having the mourning she should have had for her own family iyswim. Very sad.

Myriad I think he'll get there. One day.

For now your joint message is that it's not acceptable to be treated with anything less than respect and that if they can't police themselves into behaving like normal people that you'd rather they kept their distance until they can.

If you have a dog that bites, it is the dog that is biting. It clearly has it's reasons for biting, but nonetheless it's unacceptable behaviour. It either needs help or training to stop the biting.

If your dog has bitten before and allow that dog to continue bite others, then the fault is yours.

Your MIL must see that if her dd is threatening her ds's wife that this is unacceptable, and therefore SHE too must take responsibility for her dd behaviour not support/enable it.

You have every right to stay away from this dangerous dog and her 'owner'.

Argh...i have stopped watching the dog at my house. When i told them no more, they also stopped asking me to watch him at their house. Great!

They had even started.leaving him in the house while we all went out shopping.

So today i get a phone call asking if i would watch the dog as my dm wanted to go out today.
I didnt want to, but he said he had got wrong off my dm as he let her sleep til 11. She felt thr day was over and really wanted.to go out.
However...i feel like it was all lies.

He picks me up to go to their house. On the way ..oh ill go and get your sis as she is coming to. So i asked where exactly are you going? Some art fair thing.

Which probably had an opening time. So why the whole BS story about the day being over and shit.

It might seem like nothing but i am just pissed right off.

This is after the battle of getting my kids bikes out past all of my dads shit in my cupboard!!

Its a no from now on. For anything. He can shift his shit too.

Then they had the nerve to leave without even saying bye! Well my dm did. But jesus!

Hissy i love the dog analogy... How apt ;)
In all seriousness, i shall use that for my dh tonight. He has been 99% supportive of me, but obviously his mother is his mother and he is always going to have a weird loyalty to her. He cant see that him asking her loads of questions about her health is only reinforcing his mothers obsession with it. Her being vague and dismissive of his questions is not to protect her son from her fears - its to punish him, she knows he will worry. She has made him a neurotic. I really haven't come across someone as troubled and vindictive as his mother. She is very sly.
Its just so hard to be strong enough to say never again... But I feel if i do give his fam a second chance they will never change. Well, maybe sil - but mil has always been a martyr , a victem, depended on dh like he was her man. She is also very conniving and behaves like a girl. Everyone can see this with her, her own friends and family have commented on these things- it's not just in my head ! So I feel if i dont continue the NC she will never change and I will get bit again. .., which, as you say, will be my fault.

That dog analogy is actually superb! I like to think that at the moment we're managing and minimising the risks, but unless you avoid the dog completely there will always be a risk of getting bitten (and maybe even when you do try to avoid the dog completely, tis no guarantee it won't sniff you out anyway!).
Good luck myriad, hope your DH will get it.

Hi myriad did you let dd go? Sorry if I've missed it up thread.

I would still keep the nc up, why does she not have to take responsibility for what she did? I've recently read that with some people 'forgive and forget' is just really ' let's pretend it didn't happen'.

I've had headband gate with mil today. She hates that I put a headband on dd (9 months) she will always make a point of telling dd, how stupid it is , which is really aimed at me.

Today when she seen her, dd had her coat hood up. When she pushed dds hood back, I seen her push the headband back in to the hood and tuck it down she then lifted dd out to show her off to her friends.

I walked over and fished it out and put it back on. Cue 'she looks stupid ridiculous ect....

So I said " oh dd, don't listen to nana nasty"
Mil - it's stupid
Me - well when you come round and you where that daft scarf I'll tell you that it's stupid. ( getting my brave arse on)
MIL - it's stupid

Meh she might have had the last word but I'm not letting her dictate what I dress my own child in. Dh thought I was barking. Maybe I am ! I just feel everything is getting do petty now.

And also she needs to quit with the derogatory remarks to my dd.

Meh!

Hello everyone...I haven't been on here for ages as all has been quite on the crazy mother front. But the last couple of weeks there's been rumblings about her "anxiety and depression" and talk of doctors' appointments for anti Ds and "trembling hands". Been ignoring as much as poss but it winds me up as it's just so much drama llama nonsense. Seeing her tomorrow and not looking forward to it.

cigarettes she sounds like a prime arse ! Rude cow. Thats what my sil is like. Very rude for no reason. Moans all the time about her nap times or how i will carry her if she cried in pram or anything thats really detegarory to me and suggests dd is spoilt ( which is not the case , she is 10 months old for Gods sake!) and even if she was it is none of her buisness!!

I did let dh take dd as I am not ready to do NC with dd and mil. I just do not feel it is necessary yet, and she wasn't crying etc around dd this time so I have to hope she has got the picture and will change?

I dunno. Its bloody hard :/

As for sil she will never have unsupervised access to dd again. I will maintain NC with her so this can continue with ease. She did watch her a few times for me ( last resort) but i never felt 100% happy doing it and regret doing so now. It's not that I think she would harm dd, shes just very hard as a person - i can imagine her stressing out easily too. I just wish I hadn't felt badgered into letting her watch dd now, but it was only few times and never again. As for mil she will not have unsupervised access either . No way. Again, I know she wouldn't harm dd- she is very playful n loving with her, great infact - but she lets herself down by whinging and sobbing all the time. The neurotic behaviour around a child isnt good. My father was the same and it has affected me. It is something i do not want to pass on to dd .

Sorry to jump in. Just had a phonecall from Mum.

Grandma (Dad's mum) has been 'dying' for about two years now. It's true that she's struggling with her heart, has angina, and has been in and out of hospital. She's not exactly well. On the other hand, she's well over 90 (92 or 94 possibly). Things will be going wrong now. And she's been 'dying' since before Mum and Dad got married 40 years ago, in an attempt to delay the wedding, so I take it with a pinch of salt. I've been told '2 weeks' a number of times in the past few years. I've been told she's giving me money. I'm not prepared to jump to her tune any more, and a lot of the trouble between me and Dad has come about because of this- he's upset that I'm using my mind and making this decision. I've been wobbling on and off about getting the phonecall, as I was pretty sure Dad would use it to make contact.

So when Mum called - I expected the news. But I didn't get that news.

Dad's older brother lives in France. He's been hopping back and forth for two years (he lived with her for the first six months until it became clear that the 'two weeks' just wasn't right), and he's back and forth regularly since. The two brothers haven't been close until this past few years - a lot of the antagonism came from there, and Dad cut the whole lot out until a couple of years back, and now he's back to Grandma's bedside, and him and Uncle are getting on.

Uncle was walking back from a meeting yesterday, and he collapsed and died.

Dad went over to Grandma's to be with her - she's just lost a son. Grandma is spitting feathers. Furious with my Aunt who apparently piles the pressure on Uncle, who's clearly been driven to an early grave because of that terrible woman.

Basically, a classic Narc reaction.

What has been very interesting has been Dad. He called Mum, and asked her to pass the message on, because he knows that talking to me is upsetting for me.

It cannot be easy for him today, but he did manage to have that compassionate thought today.

It's made me feel... odd. Not like I'm going to rush to his side - I can't possibly handle that at the moment. More, that perhaps, maybe, at some point, I'll be able to have conversations with him again. Possibly not as father and daughter, but as person and person. Maybe.

I passed the message back to give my condolences, and that I really, really appreciate him giving me the space at the moment, so thanking him for that. I wonder if maybe, after all the therapy, when I feel confident about who I am and able to stand up for myself, maybe I'll be able to converse a little bit.

Basically today, I find I love him a very tiny, small amount. It's odd. Through all the anger, there's this tiny trickle of love.

C&S

Your scenario described in your last post will just get acted out in different ways as the years pass. Your MIL will simply continue use your DD to get back at you; today it was the headband, next time it will be something else.

You have to be the one to stop this contact with MIL; if this woman cannot or will not behave she gets to see none of you full stop. Such women like your MIL make for being not just bad but deplorable grandparents. Please do not set your most precious resource i.e your child up for a lifetime of emotional manipulation at this woman's hands.

Toxic people like your MIL always but always want the last word. It is NOT your fault she is the disordered way she is.

I would also say the same to MyriadofMiracles; none of these people are good for your mental state and are more than happy to keep you and by turn your child in their web of dysfunction. Such people are damaged and do not change.

I would further examine your own reasons as to why you are not as yet ready to go NC with these people. I think your would find that none of those reasons are infact good enough to maintain contact.