A silly, rambling dilemma

[gabrielleblue]

I started a relationship with a guy about 6 months ago, casually at first but we certainly developed deep feelings for each other and said that we are in love with eachother.. Just before Christmas he had a stroke and I was at his bedside throughout, even though friends told me this was the perfect opportunity to walk away and they advised me to because of his situation. I stayed because I wanted to. He is a man who has been unemployed for a couple of years and was sinking into a depression due to his lack of employment and dire finances anyway. With the damage from the stroke (left side paralysis, but gradually getting better) he is in an even less likely position to find work. He literally has no money. I do have money, but he doesn't want to accept anything from me. He is in a very real situation of not being able to afford rent in the next few weeks and there is every chance he will be made homeless. In that case he would have no option but to return to his family (as a charity case) for shelter. This is an intelligent man who has never considered the future, having had a series of well paid jobs, but spending all his reserves during his bouts of unemployment.
The other issue is that relationship wise he is so unstable. Or at least has been until we met. Very much at a downturn in his life - which of course got even worse with his health problems. He called himself a retired player, has spent the vast amount of his time and money in various strip clubs (the only way to actually have drinks with beautiful women he said) but, and in a way I believe him, that was all it was. We started having sex about 3 weeks after meeting. We have been together every night since then and the sex has been very lovely for both of us - he says best ever for him -even since the stroke. Very prudish (he calls it gentlemanly) about anything like a sext. Won't do it, so some of me really believes the strip clubs were 'company' for him as he's never had a long term relationship. More red flags: right now I am on an extended business trip and our texts to eachother have dried up somewhat. We tend not to talk on the phone. I have just noticed many flirtatious comments on facebook between him and a woman he has recently met through a friend. He doesn't know I know about these, and I am not sure whether to make anything of it anyway. But since he is housebound, and she lives many miles away, I doubt anything is happening in real life.
So there are many reasons to walk away now, before I am even more drawn to him. This is a just a silly ramble really, but the truth is that I am in love with him, even though it makes no sense at all, and feel that I should offer my home and money to him till he recovers a little more and can get back on his own feet. However, if he is really still playing the field, even if it is just by Facebook or texting, I don't want to be taken advantage of.

he sounds like a classic Narcissist to me - he shows all the sign's. I found this website useful

healingthroughselflove.blogspot.co.uk/

Narcissist are charming and will sweep you off your feet at the start, but they are only pretending and their true personality will come out eventually. It looks like his true personality has just started to come out.

Although at the moment it doesn't feel like it, you have had a lucky escape.

Dating these days is a minefield - you need to have your wits about you and always always look for the red flags.

I'm just getting over a relationship which only lasted a year but crippled me emotionally - I'm a similar age to you and had a similar financial / gambling / flirting package of issues with my exP and each time they got worse I still clung on. Similar to yourself my exP was the total opposite to my previous long term partner and I was very attracted to that.

It is so hard to get over someone - but it is not your fault he had the stroke and you are not responsible for making sure he gets well. You are not walking away from him because he is disabled but because he disrespects you. He will never change. You can not rescue him.

Please concentrate on looking after yourself first.

ScottishPies
Can I ask how long it took you to get over him?
You are right that it is not the stroke and his disability that's the dealbreaker. Its the roving eye. I am just terribly hurt at the flirtatiousness of his facebook messages. I am thinking that to him they might even mean nothing and that he does love me, but thinking that way is probably crazy and won't do me any good.
I did send him a text a few hours ago after he accused me of not responding to his flirts because I was so unused to someone paying me a compliment. I replied that flirting was not really in my nature, but definitely was in his. I hoped he'd realised that I knew what he was up to and get back to me with some sort of excuse or reassuring comment. However, he hasn't responded.

We hadn't been getting on for about 3mths and i thought i was going bonkers doubting myself. i left (was stayin at his hse while i was looking for somewhere to rent in his town) just before xmas '13. Then we had a few text and met up 4 times until i finally realised it was all over towards the end of Jan '14.

So its been a gradual process and its hurt like hell, but i had a lightbulb moment about 2wks ago when i read about Narcissists and realised thats what he was. Then all the pity and guilt i felt about him and his problems turned to anger, i realised i should have trusted my gut feeling from the begining and recognised the red flags for what they were.

It hurts like hell, i feel such an idiot, but at least i know i am on the road to recovery and can recognise that he is at fault (rather then praise him to the hills which is what i had been doing earlier).

You'll get there in the end.

Gab. I have just extricated myself from an almost identical situation. It only lasted for about 6 weeks. I tried convincing myself that I was the one with the problem for a while (a couple of days really!). But clearly the same. A player. A flirt. Wonderfully sexy. Uber attentive at first. Claimed to be in love with me within weeks. Text messages that sent shivers down my spine. Touches that would send shivers down my spine (and all manner of physical effects IFYWIM). Attractive bad boy type. I was bowled over and ignored the excessive drinking (and driving). Ignored the flirtatious texts from other women when he was in my company.

I fell hook line and sinker and my stomach was in knots most of the time I was with him. All a flutter every time he was coming round (and for a while that was almost every day!).

Then the text messages eased up massively. I spotted him in a pub with an ex girlfriend. He explained it away (tried at least). I remained suspicious and eventually I knocked it on the head by text. He tried to remain friends and I went along with that for about two weeks but clearly he thought that gave him licence to try it on with me in a friends with benefits kind of way (unsucessfully I might add). He also thought he was in a position to pass judgement on me and tell me what was wrong with me. I don't need that shit from a guy that cheated in his marriage (probably more than once despite him claiming it was just the once). Has had several failed live in relationships since that divorce.

All his relationships are with separated or divorced women who have thier own homes and he's moved in with them. He even suggested the same with me, but it was out of the question as I have a 16 year old daughter and she comes first. He now lives at home with his mum because there wasn't enough money out of the marital home for him to set up a home of his own. His kids don't see him. He has another kid and grandchildren with someone from his mid teens that he has no contact with. Job relies on him being able to drive but regularly drinks and drives with a lot of booze in him. You getting the picture? Chancer?

Your guy sounds pretty much like the one I've been with. I consider myself lucky I spotted the crap early on. It hurt like hell. 6 weeks after it ending it still takes up too much of my headspace but that will diminish I am sure. But my message to you is this. I felt a complete fool having fallen for this little piece of shite and player. I feel stupid as I am old enough (and cynical enough) to know better. However, lesson learnt and thanks to Mumsnet I feel and know I did the right thing getting out. Don't feel daft. I am a good bit older than you. I would consider myself to be pretty worldly wise but love (lust) does some pretty strange things to your brain.

Dump. Go no contact and move on. Have a few dinners and nice evenings with other guys. Don't get serious with anyone for a while and give yourself a pat on the back for seeing it for what it is. Finding out that someone is being a prick and a liar is not stalking, its taking care of yourself. My H used to lie a lot about time, where he was and money. Often I would find out accidentally and when I confronted him he would use the tactic of making me feel I was in the wrong for catching him out in his lie. He would accuse me of being a snoop and invading his privacy!! A very clever tactic which worked for a while but that stopped too. Thanks again to Mumsnet.

You so know that you are too good for this guy and you so know that no matter what contortions you put yourself through you will never feelt truly happy or safe in this relationship. The pay off is not in balance with the angst it will bring.

I feel wonderful being able to write this even though I feel sad that my sexy man is no longer in my life. But as someone else said on here, chuck him back in the sea love. Life is to precious to be wasted on wasters!

Neelie - good sound advice. The handsome sexy ones in my experience are the worse and the hardest to get over. The flatery and attention is such a killer when it stops. But its nothing but manipulation and a way to boost their ego. Even the sex side of things is more a performance that your expected to admire at the end. Men like this are to be pitied as ultimately they fool no one but themselves.

Thank you neelie and ScottishPies
It's agony though right now. I feel way worse about this than when my marriage ended. Can't figure out why that should be. Just feel so exposed and scared by my bad judgement. Some of me wants to confront him over this flirting - to want him to say that its not important and is just a way to fill the time while he is recovering from his stroke (at under 50, so very unexpected) and while I am out of town, but he actually hasn't even contacted me by text which is so odd when he was the one with the good morning/night ones at the very least.
There were also many drinking and driving issues, including a night in jail - maybe more, I don't know. He's American (I'm British, although living in the US) and they take this kind of thing very seriously. All before my time, though: I've been taking him out in my car, which he admires greatly. Plus troubles with the IRS over nn payment of taxes. Plus no health insurance so is waiting to see if Medicaid will pay for his hospital stay.

All in all it couldn't be any worse and I know he's a loser. But my heart pines for him. I didn't even want to change him, just enjoy him without getting all the negative bits because I knew they all pointed to disaster, so I didn't even think I was that engaged in every aspect of him. But seeing the facebook flirts has hurt me to my core.

Oh dear this sounds so familiar. I would get the most beautiful "good morning my darling" text message and at least one every couple of hours during the day and at least one "goodnight my darling" as I went to sleep. It felt truly lovely. I was so loved and adored. Then one day it just stopped. I asked him if there was something wrong and he, at first just said it was work being extra demanding. I knew that was a crock of shit so I said "I think we need to talk". He was having none of it so I ended up dumping him by text. Not what I wanted but now know it was the right thing to do.

I likened it to this.

Imagine me on a raft floating down a pretty fast running river. But my raft, although a bit wobbly, was holding its own and I was maintaining it so as to prepare and avoid any further distruction. Along comes an individual flailing about in the water with no raft and no means of self support. That person tries to climb onto my raft whilst still flailing about and carrying huge bags of rocks too. Clearly this person will not only weaken my raft but shows a dangerous propensity to tip my raft over completely and floating off with bits of what was left of my raft leaving me to flail about in the water.

This is the scenario I could easily see happening. He had made a bad business decision not long before meeting me. He complained that he had no money. But he would go to the pub at least 3 nights a week and spend upwards of 50 on each pub visit. Add to that eating out a lot to impress the woman that was his target at that moment. That is as much as my mortgage each month! He drank upwards of 6 shorts on each pub visit (most often a lot more) and would then drive home. If he got caught he would lose his driving licence and not just for a year probably due the amount of alcohol he had consumed (also the risk of maiming or killing some other poor sod that got in his way!). This would result in him not being able to work. This would result in him being needy on the money front and becoming angry due to being dependent on others (or whoever he happened to be in a relationship with at the time). His lifestyle was all building up on his credit cards I could see. This is all just a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. He needs to ensure that any potential partner (victim) was completely dazzled and hopefully miss the fact that she's backing a three legged (or most likely two) horse.

By the time he's been rumbled she's, hopefully, so deep in love and so deeply involved she'll keep making excuses. In the meantime when you complain about this they will tell you that its not thier fault, they told you what they were like, you just chose to ignore it. The bad behaviour will rack up. When mine went all moody on me once and I said, carefully, that didn't appreciate moodiness and being frozen out he just said "but I did say I could be like that, I don't know why I just do it, I thought you understood"!!

Please don't consider staying with this sort of person based on lust and emotion. You are too valuable for this. Your life is too valuable for this. Look after your raft. It has space for two as long as it is still floating.

I love the raft analogy, Neelie!

Gabrielle, do you think that some of this has to do with feelings from the end of your marriage; that this is a sort of rebound affair that feels much more intense because of this moment in your life? A fling after a break-up is fair enough but, as everyone else is saying loud and clear, don't take this any further.

"Retired player" - this makes me feel dirty
Strip clubs - for comany? Ugh. What kind of man has to pay for company? Or only wants the company of partly dressed women?

I have had some relationships that have left me financially and emotionally unstable - water-logged and struggling, according to Neelie's analogy - but the one I used in my head was this: there is a cliff edge, and dark things lie over the cliff. You can put distance between yourself and the edge of the cliff by working on the things you need: your job, your health, your interests and activities, your friends, your families, your good relationships. Be careful if you meet a man who wants to put you between him and the cliff edge. He should be on the flat grassy bit with the clear views through his own efforts, not pushing you into danger to make sure he isn't the last thing before the edge

I am sure you are right, but just a small part of me thinks he does love me

Wouldn't you rather KNOW he loves you?

Yes, I'd love to know he loves me. But having admitted all these issues, is it really worth even being loved by someone like this?
I guess it was maybe just a happy beach romance rebound relationship, but it was certainly very appealing to me and I wanted to keep the feeling for as long as I could, without necessarily seeing it as a long term relationship. As I said, I had been married, created a lovely family and am now financially stable, so all his issues didn't affect that. I thought it was my time to do what I wanted - for as long as it lasted. Uncomplicated and sweet. Of course feelings became deeper. I did believe him when he said he felt very deeply about me too. Now of course I'm wondering whether it was all nothing. That's the bit that makes me feel like such a fool and that I can't really rely on my own judgement.

I'm also thinking that strip clubs are slightly less seedy in the US than in the UK. Doesn't appeal to me at all, but neither was I judging him for finding company that way. Of course, because he is a very attractive man, I don't think the girls he met were unwilling to socialize with him anyway. But, again I only have his word on this: it was all about the having someone to talk to. He told me since he had relocated to this part of the US he had only had sex with 3 women. That's not too horrific in 2 years is it? Everything could be a lie though....

He has no idea what love is. He can make the noises, say the right words maybe even believe it for a bit but love?
He doesn't love you. If he did you would have no need to question it.

You mean by actions rather than words? No, he didn't do anything for me, except be available, and good company. I guess it was me doing all the nice things in the relationship - cooking him dinners, taking him to restaurants and movies, etc because he hadn't the money. His empty fridge was the saddest thing I had ever seen. Literally no food except a small packet of luncheon meat and some processed bread. He once questioned whether I loved him. He said he had never said it to anyone before, so was very unfamiliar with the feeling. I told him that I thought by doing things for him and showing up at the hospital and advocating for him, bringing him fresh fruit salads and nourishing foods, I was showing love. I think he was grateful for that.

Hmm. Mine told me he loved me three weeks in. He also asked me if I loved him and I was unable to answer. Words are cheap. Actions speak louder than words. And like you I cared for him and I believe showed in other ways. It's easy to say to someone in the flush and excitement of early days "I love you". The test is when that first flush wears off if you still want to be there. Sadly that wasn't the case with mine I believe. I also believe it was, and is, a repeating pattern. Just some women have less boundaries and less self preservation and hang in there for longer.

It's also worrying that he has 'I love you' on FB to the woman...did I understand that correctly. Don't buy the joking malarkey. Also, I think you are minimising and kiddding yourself if you think that US strip clubs are less seedy than in the UK....

Let's face it the only reason he is a ' retired player' is because he's old and had a stroke, so sounds like he will use you till he's ready to play again.
If he's flirting online when he's ill what is he like when well?

And the sad little empty fridge and loneliness is simply reality of what happens to men( and women )who take no financial responsibility for themselves and consider themselves players.

of course, "players" often end up alone and old with no idea of domestic stuff once they get too unattractive to have a bunch of little women dancing to their tune

Mine told me he loved me after a few weeks. And for the first few months we text or spoke everyday - then it all pettered off from his side. For the last 6mths (and note the relationship only lasted a year!) he never said he loved me and by the last 3mths i felt he no longer even cared for / liked me. I was even reduced to asking if he did care for me in a few of our final arguements, it felt like i was begging for his affection! Once the arguement was over and all was calm he did say that he did care for me, but he also said i could say as long as i needed to in his house while i found sonewhere to rent (sold my house Sept '13,been on market 3.5yrs, well before i met P) but his was an empty offer as we both knew it wasn't possible. The shithead was afraid of being thought of as a 'bad' person. Ha.

OP, I noticed a few posts back that, until the flirty texts, you had been 'prepared to work through the red flags' and that gave me pause. That phrase implies that you feel that red flags are things that can be 'loved away' if you put enough effort in - whereas the reality is that the red flags are indicators of the way the person is at their core, the way of behaving that suits them, but is at odds with the persona they are trying to present. You can't work through them for someone else. That's 'rescuer' talk.

Here here walkacross the sand. Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Walkacrossthesand and Neelie here, it wasn't that I was going to work through the red flags. Rather that if you are, say, in your 20s and looking for someone financially responsible and in regular employment (my ex is an attorney) and a secure base in which to raise a family, that is somewhat different to being in your late 40s, out of that kind of relationship and just looking for someone to enjoy being with. I didn't want to change him or his bar-hopping. That is what he wanted to do prior to meeting me (and running out of money). We didn't discuss any long term plans. As I said, he has had a disastrous short string of relationships and has had jobs that have taken him all over the US, so never really firmly in one place. Now (or at least prior to the stroke) he seemed happy, albeit out of work, and keen to form a relationship. I really am cynical, and always thought of this as something casual, but truth is I did fall for him - harder than I expected to. That is why I was even prepared to nurse him through his illness. He seemed very grateful (and obviously in great need) and we became even closer during the hospital and rehab time. It's only now, since I've been away, that the facebook activity has started and his texts to me have dropped off. I do find that mystifying, although it seems to follow the regular pattern according to everyone's posts. He even gave me a Valentine card before I left since I won't be in the state. Very odd, since it was him doing the running (but me, obviously, doing the real falling in love/lust).

so not only am I missing him and the idea of being with him, I'm having to come to terms that my cynicism is nowhere near good enough.

I guess I don't really know what it is to be a rescuer. I was just enjoying the him I knew. It does seem like such a lot of effort to put into creating a whole different persona. Why not be happy and true to yourself. That is what I thought he was. And I guess I should probably confess I'd like to hear your opinions of what a 'player' is and whether it means something different to British men and American ones. Is it always bad?

A player to me is a person who commits to no one and does what the hell they like .

here is a good definition of a "player"

it's certainly not a compliment nor a sweet idiosyncrasy you should be overlooking