So ready to start a family, but OH not so much...

[babyready]

I'm a 28 year old freelancer, currently at a natural break in my career (one big project finished, doing short-term work before looking for the next big project), and all I can think about is making that next big project starting a family!!!

I've been with my partner 3 years, we're renting together (and for the foreseeable, as we're both self-employed!) and are very stable and more in love than ever. Financially we're in the best shape we've been, and despite not having the benefits of PAYE employment (maternity pay etc), we could comfortably afford to start a family at this stage. I also just feel so ready to be a mum :)

However, OH isn't keen to give up his freedom just yet - he sees babies as a 35+ lifechoice. Not that he never wants them, he just feels that he's still young and still has stuff to do. We had the "what if there was an accident" chat, and he said it'd be fine and we'd make it work, but he's not going to choose the sleepless nights voluntarily.

For me, late-30s would be a little late to start - I'd like to still have some energy and time for my career then and be into the swing of family life, so I could (hopefully!) juggle things better!! I've also found that I can't concentrate or motivate myself in my career, or anything right now, as my mind keeps wandering back to babyland (hence me posting on mumsnet, FFS!!)!

However, I realise there's no compromise here - one of us will have to do something we don't feel is ideal for us going forward.

Has anyone either:
a) Been able to overcome this crazy, hormonal broodiness?
b) Been able to coax a loved-one round to the idea of starting a family?!

Any thoughts/advice/experiences would be hugely appreciated!!

if it's actually that you definitely want children with your partner, but you're not quite ready to give up lie ins at the weekend, or having a good disposable income, of at 28 you feel 'too young' (hmm) then you need to be realistic about what your extra few years of self-indulgence and emotional immaturity might cost you as a family in the longer term.

You also need to be realistic about what those extra few years of developing yourself might buy you in terms of career advancement, extra qualifications, more secure employment and finances.

I didn't want to have a baby when I was 28 because my life was fun and interesting and I wasn't ready to give up doing most of what I enjoyed (at the time) to take on onerous and permanent responsibilities.

I can't tell you how glad I am that I took that time and how much of a (positive) difference it was made to our circumstances as a family.

You still have plenty of time and lots of choices to make about the kind of life you are going to have.

Pressuring somebody who is not ready for children into having them is never a good idea. If he's up for trying in a few years and he's the guy, then I think you have some thinking to do.

If he insists on waiting until mid-late 30s, despite the potential effect on your fertility, then you should probably leave.

Have the talk discuss a cut off age - if he is adamant he's not ready then get rid.

I myself have had (after 3 months but there's a reason behind it) the child talk with my current boyfriend the main reason being that I'm 42 and I wouldn't not like to give up my chance to have kids.

There are two questions he needs to answer.

1. Does he think he actually will want kids
2. Does he want kids with you.

Unfortunately often it's only when men have really bottomed out there answer to number 1 that they are ready to face up to the answer to number 2. I'm sure we all know numerous examples of men who have delayed and delayed because they're not ready, and it's only when they begin to feel ready that they are able to admit the relationship isn't right for them. And then bam, they tend to marry and procreate very quickly with the next one. Unfortunately he will always have the option to find a slightly younger girlfriend.

I still maintain that it's completely legitimate for men and women to say 28 is too young to have children, and there is a large difference between 28 and 38. Waiting doesn't mean waiting forever.

But if he has doubts beyond a desire to wait then I think you need to be careful. If he admits at 33 that he's just not that committed than it's harder for you to start again than at 29 or 30.

I had this problem, with the added complication of a ten-year age gap. I'd never particularly been bothered by the idea of having children, then when I hit 38 a klaxon went off in my head. I had to have babies NOW.

However, my partner of two years - and the best boyfriend I'd ever had - was only 28. He had all the time in the world, I had potentially no time at all. I plucked up courage to tell him how I felt, and he dashed my hopes by saying he felt 'too young'. I was gutted, but gave him six months to come round to the idea, with no nagging, then reconsider my options.

Fortunately for me, a friend of his said to him "If you want children eventually, and you want to have them with this woman, why wait. There's never a 'right time', but when you have the baby you'll wonder why you ever waited."

As it happened, it then took us five years to have our DS - five miscarriages, and a failed adoption attempt. I eventually had him at 43.

"You still have plenty of time and lots of choices to make about the kind of life you are going to have."

Yes - if you are willing to accept that you are very significantly increasing the chance of having a child with autism or a significant congenital abnormality by waiting a few years, once you get to your late 30's/early 40's. You have to be honest about what you might be trading off. Should also say, it's not just about autism and other abnormalities. Women who conceive in their late 30's/early 40's are also more likely to have a stillbirth, or a very premature baby. Also massively more likely to have problems giving birth. And as I said - it's not just about your age when you have your first baby. If you want to have more than one, you need to think about your age when you are having your last baby, which may be 3 or 4 years past when you have your first.

I suppose that doesn't mean much to someone who is of the mind-set 'it probably won't happen to me'. From the other side - as someone who has a child with a disability, and someone who knows many other women whose children, born to them late in life, have disabilities, it's laughable to think of offsetting these risks against the chance of earning an extra few thousand a year, or going a couple of extra rungs up the career ladder by delaying having a baby.

The fertility issue is a bit of a red herring, as most women over 35 can conceive without too much trouble.

"If you want children eventually, and you want to have them with this woman, why wait. There's never a 'right time', but when you have the baby you'll wonder why you ever waited."

And for the vast majority of people this is the absolute truth. For those men who duck out saying 'I can't cope because I wasn't ready' - they were probably fuckwits to start with.

ISBN, calling the proven statistic of declining fertility a "red herring" is doing a grave disservice to those women over 35 who are having all too much trouble conceiving.

OP, assuming that during your discussion with your DP he does insist he definitely wants children with you at some point in the future, you need to get it clear what "ready" looks like to him. Given that 35+ is a non-starter from your perspective, you need to find out what it is he still wants/feels the need to do before settling down, so you can compromise on a more realistic timescale. E.g. does he want to hike across Patagonia? How long would it take to save for a trip like that, and then replace the cash for the "future family fund"? Two years? No reason why you couldn't start TTC when you were both 30, in that case.

Essentially, what is it that needs to change between now and "then", whenever "then" is, for him to feel ready? If he has no real clue, or just wants to continue dossing about with his mates like an overgrown teenager, I'd start to hear alarm bells ringing. If he can articulate what he wants/needs to do to feel fulfilled enough to start a family and is happy to start planning it to do it within a certain timescale - shorter than seven years! - then a compromise over timing might be possible.

Sorry but I think some of these negative attitudes are kind of bullshit.

I think it's really bizarre to think that if you're not ready for kids at 28 you're a fuckwit or an overgrown teenager. There's nothing wrong with having a fun life and not wanting it to change for a few more years. Also nothing wrong with wanting to make sure you're with the right person.

It only seems stupid if you think your whole purpose in life is to get married and have kids, but there are plenty of other things to do in life.

I wasn't ready until my late 30s. I wanted to travel and see the world and I wanted to find the right guy. I didn't get both of those done until late 30s so that's the way it worked out. I accepted the risks. Luckily for me it was not a problem.

I agree with not waiting forever if you don't have to, but 28 IS still quite young, by today's standards. Most people I know are waiting til their 30s -- and not because they're fuckwits but because they're getting phds or doing humanitarian work or working 12 hour days or saving up for houses. Or waiting until they're certain with their partner. It's perfectly valid.

It's also valid for the OP to say she doesn't want to wait. But the problem would be one of incompatibility, not that her DP is a jerk or anything.

Hear hear, Dreaming.

Well said dreaming - even though me and DH are about to have our first at 30/31 years of age, of our circle of friends, we are some of the youngest having children. Most of our other married friends didn't start having children until their mid 30's.

We had this issue. We got together at 27 (me), 28 (him). Neither of us was remotely interesting in children.

I started getting broody at 30-31. He didn't. That was an incredibly difficult time. I was ready to throw in the towel when I turned 34 when he proposed and we agreed to ttc straight after the wedding. We did, but with "unexplained infertility" (all test results normal) it took us 3 years to conceive, so I'm now 38 and finallt in the early weeks of pregnancy (after a lot of heartache, expense and fertility treatment), hoping that this one works out. We would both have liked 2 when we started down this road, but that looks unlikely now.

So he did come round, but I very much wish we had started trying earlier.

If he would like more than one child, has he "done the math?". Say you start trying at 35. It takes a year (not unusual and a third of the time it took us), so pg at 36. Have baby at 36-37. Wait 18 months before ttc again, so 38-39. By this point fertility is really starting to drop. You might be lucky, you might not. But leaving it to late 30s really is quite late in terms of female fertility. Yes, some people will get pregnant at the drop of a hat at 40, but many will not.

Very well said, dreaming.

And congratulations, euro :)

dreaming - the point is you need to be BOTH on the same page. Not one saying "yes in 5 years" and the other saying "I'm not sure but late 30's".

OP: The broodiness does drop off.

FWIW the women I know who HAVE had kids late in life, there have been 3 2nd time round mums (eg had kids in early 20's then waited until 2nd relationship and baby/ies again at 35 or 39/40). There was one friend who at 37 planned on getting pregnant and did but then found she wanted another one a year later in case it would happen, another friend a bit older (38/39) had 2 boys in quick succession, panic mode.

then there's the IVF stuff - how do you even KNOW if you can't get pregnant naturally or not?!

I think realistically you do need to ask him if he is ready to have kids with you and maybe give a cut off point. say early 30's. Also look into your fertility.

OP you need to back up and think about what you are proposing.

You want children with a man you are not married to. Once they are here who is going to look after them? If you, how are you going to support yourself and them? If someone else, how is it to be paid for? What if you die? He dies? He leaves?

You don't want to get married because it's expensive. Children are expensive, marriage can be extremely cheap by comparison.

I can see why you don't want to wait til your mid/late 30s but you have a whole heap of stuff to sort out now before trying to conceive.

Well - that's fair enough.

I think people's attitude to risk changes hugely after they've had children. Most people I know go to very great lengths to reduce remote risks to their baby once they are pregnant or the child is born, but will prioritise travel, a nice lifestyle or increased earnings above reducing the risk of birth defects - even though this risk is very real, and poor outcomes are common enough that almost all of us will know people who have experienced them.

It's about values and priorities. Life changes but doesn't end when you have a baby. People talk as though becoming a parent puts paid to your chances of personal growth. It doesn't.

All that said, the biggest gift you can give a child is to birth them into a stable and loving relationship, so consensus about when to start a family is always going to be a top priority.

I don't think it's about values. I think it's different interpretations of risk management.

At the end of the day we have no real control over pregnancy outcomes. The array of things you are supposed to do for the best outcome is not as simple as starting early, and you can start early and still have problems. And, some things that will minimise risk will cause other problems (for example, TTC when you have no money or secure housing gives you 100% chance of poverty-related problems).

Some people, faced with all this, prioritise other things and accept the higher level of risk. That doesn't mean they have no values, or the wrong values. It doesn't mean they don't understand that birth defects and infertility problems exist. They just have a different approach to life and risk.

So this may be a more focused area the OP could discuss with her DP. Are they compatible in this sense? Because if he's Mr Live in the Now and and she's Ms Risk Averse, they will have a hard time meeting in the middle.

That's what I thought tbh. I find the assumption of lots of "planners" is that the live-in-the-now types who they find so charming will sort of come round to their way of thinking eventually. I've had that from various friends and family, and you can see it in all the language on this thread like "growing up" etc.

But they won't necessarily because the live-in-the-now is actually a recipe for life in itself. It's just that different things become your "now". Some things inevitably involve a bit of planning of course, but only once gut feelings have been acted on and decisions made. Whereas other people, like the OP perhaps, enjoy and are fulfilled by the idea of planning itself. Nothing wrong with either way.

"At the end of the day we have no real control over pregnancy outcomes."

No - but starting, not early, but before 30 makes a really big difference to improving your chance of having a baby who doesn't need support from you and from the state throughout his or her lifetime.

"That doesn't mean they have no values, or the wrong values. It doesn't mean they don't understand that birth defects and infertility problems exist. They just have a different approach to life and risk."

Their values are this: they are prepared to double or triple or quadruple the risk of serious birth defects in their children in order to have the chance to have more holidays, more money, a nicer home and a better position at work.

As for the issue of birthing a baby into a poor household or a shaky relationship, I haven't suggested that you should disregard your circumstances. That said, most children of working class families (who are born to mothers under 30) in the UK aren't homeless. living in broken families or living in poverty, so it shows it's perfectly possible.

And BTW - most women and men in their 20's and 30's have no idea of the facts relating to birth defects and the link with maternal age.

I agree MadBus. I don't think one way is better or more virtuous than the other, they're just different. Neither is guaranteed to give you a better life.

Their values are this: they are prepared to double or triple or quadruple the risk of serious birth defects in their children in order to have the chance to have more holidays, more money, a nicer home and a better position at work.

I still don't see that as a question of values.

You're basically saying people who wait until their 30s to have children are immoral.

It's whether he wants kids with her full stop though. Nothing wrong with waiting a bit and at the grand age of 35 and pg with our first, I don't buy the doom scenario of it not happening or it inevitably being problem filled - but I also wouldn't advocate waiting as you simply don't know if you can have kids or not, sometimes too late. I have friends in their late 30s and 40s producing healthy and happy offspring. Statistics are still in favour of a positive outcome.

It's whether you want to wait for him to decide if he wants a family or not with you. It reminds me of the Harry met Sally sketch where she said 'he just didn't want to marry me' when she finds out her ex is getting married. If that makes sense? Does he ultimately want a family with you but he's just hazy on biology or is he being used vague? I don't think 28 is too young to have that conversation even if the ttc doesn't start for a couple more years.

Personally I find it really offensive to claim that this is a "values" issue. You're implying that people who will happily wait until after 30 are somehow feckless. ISBN I hazard a guess that what seems like regret at your personal circumstances are clouding your judgement. You also seem to have very low expectations if you think avoiding homelessness or poverty is the life that people want to carve for themselves.

The consequences of having a disabled child are large, but even with age the probability is low. It's perfectly reasonable to work on this assumption.

I think there's always a tendency to link over 30 into one big category, when there is a huge difference between 31 and 39.

ISBN, frankly you sound just as blasé about income, careers and housing problems as you claim others are about birth defects. Very easy to be dismissive about something like building some increased earning power and career status before you have to leave work if you haven't experienced any of the problems associated with not doing so yourself. Those things affect the rest of your life in a way that is a known quantity, so if you are operating at the margins in terms of finances, future earnings, housing, pension prospects, etc, of course you take those things into account and balance them against the risks on the other side.

Oh no he's not ready to have kids. You should leave him immediately. After all, if he won't give into your demands you should get someone that will

itsasmallworld you appear to be engaging in an imaginary debate?