So, after Hysterical Bonding, what next?

[FoxyTerrier]

Hi there
Have posted about this before, and really appreciated your help and advice.

DH had a year long, long-distance affair with a work colleague. It was mainly online, but they slept together on 3 occasions, at work events. It caused devastation, but he is full of remorse, has been honest, thoughtful and kind and full of disbelief at his own behaviour since, etc. It has been a very intense 4 months, since finding out. Reading other posts, we seem to be fitting 'the script'...intensity, open communications, lots of sex and physical contact, etc. Alongside rage and anger and tears, on my part anyway.

I now feel things are settling into some sort of 'normality'. I still wake up thinking about it, but I have asked every question possible, raked over every detail, received an apology from OW (and a hundred apologies from DH). I now feel a bit 'what next'. I don't want to enable him to forget, but at the same time, I guess I need to 'leave it' and move on. I guess the adrenaline has stopped pumping so hard, and it's feeling a bit 'cold light of day'...now how does it work?

I wonder if any of you, who have been through the same, could help me shed light on this new phase...what are your experiences? We both really want to make it work, and to continue to have a better and stronger relationship. I think I am worried that once things settle down, maybe he will want to contact OW again for a bit of excitement...he has shown no interest in doing so -that is in my own head. But how do you deal with it?

Thanks in advance.

Anony I think the key to moving on with your marriage is for you both to lose your obsession with OW. It is perfectly normal to become fixated with her, I did, but you have to let it go. Trying to be her friend is a little misguided. It keeps her at the forefront of your and your DH's mind. Have you considered that part of her reasons for befriending you might be that it keeps her in contact with your DH? Go no contact with her, forget her, she's history, move on. It's the only way.

Hi Foxy. Sorry I seem to have hijacked your thread, I didn't mean to. Back to your original question: I guess one reaches the point where all that can be said has been said and you both need to make a conscious effort to put it behind you and focus on your future together and not the past.

I guess the key element is whether you trust him not to do it again. Clearly this takes a massive leap of faith, he has after all done it once and you know there is a weakness. I have told my DH that if it ever happened again he would be out on his ear immediately, no discussions, no explanations. Now that he has seen the pain and devastation his actions have caused it would be literally unforgiveable to do it again. And I do believe that he won't.

And I think we need to learn from what had gone wrong in our marriage that enabled him to give himself permission to have an affair. We need to make more time for each other and be more loving and appreciative.

I think there is something strangely exhilarating about the post-affair period, especially for a couple with a long marriage which had become rather humdrum. The physical and emotional intensity has been very intoxicating, but there has to come a point where one must stop feeding that with constant examinations of the affair. I think we have reached that point now.

Madeofstone. Thank you for that - I too want my husband to hate her. I don't think he does, but like you, feels deep regret at what it caused. I keep asking him how he can suddenly just turn off the feelings and be completely 'back in love' with me..it is a hard one to get your head around when you're on the other end of it. But he swears that is the case. I think he crossed a line, and went with it as it gave him a 'high' and made him feel young again I think he needs to address his character, as you have done. I'm glad you were able to work things out with your wife - I hope we are able to do the same.

anony I would also wonder what OW's motivation would be. I contacted OW, had an apology from her, and that did make me feel able to move on (a bit anyway). I don't think I would want to continue contact with her though.

annoy you are very brave. Are you sure that there is nothing between them though? It is a very unusual situation and usually this happens when the affair is still going on. I would be worried that my husband was unhappy about the OW dating again too. Why should he care if he is in love with you.

sorry...anony phone overcorrected.

Blody: thank you for saying I'm brave, and yes, I am sure that the affair is not continuing. DH is not unhappy that OW is dating again, he is very pleased for her. But he felt a lot for her and that is not going to evaporate instantly. There is no point pretending and brushing those emotions under the carpet. But that doesn't mean he doesn't love me more. Beyond the first 2-3 weeks post discovery I haven't wanted him to hate her.

Foxy: I think OW's motivation initially was to do what she could to help repair the damage. It was actually immensely helpful to understand how it had been from her perspective. And there is also the issue that DH and she will have to spend a week together this and every summer so it was important for us all to get to a point where that was feasible.

But I won't hijack further. Maybe OW and I will write a joint thread one day...

Sorry Anony I'm actually de-luking to comment here.

I respect everyone's right to handle things the way they see fit but your interactions with the OW are bordering on the just plain creepy.
You make it sound like you sit and compare notes - how lovely!!!!

I know you (probably) don't by the way, but it does sound like you are heading down the route of a nice cozy menage-a-trois!!

Anony can I ask why he was churned up by hearing of her dating again?

Cynical: !!!!!
Blodyn: Because he loved her and still has some feelings for her and because for a while she was his. He knows that he can't have us both (whatever Cynical may think we have in mind!), and I can see why some betrayed wives would prefer not to know about such a reaction, but to me it seems quite natural.
But Foxy isn't in my situation and this is her thread....

I understand anony I really do but it is always recommended that there is no contact when affair is stopped. I understand that he still has to work with her but beyond that I feel that the contact you have created with her is just playing with fire and unhealthy. You are a very understanding woman and I take my hat off to you . I agree with your earlier post about working out where the marriage went wrong in the first instance that created the environment for an affair to happen. ( I think that is what you were saying, sorry on my phone). My situation occurred nine years ago now and it is a better stronger more grown up marriage than it was before. Affairs can destroy or they can be a huge wake up call for your relationship.

Blodyn: Glad to hear it worked out for you, that is what I am hoping for for myself - and (to the extent one can for an internet stranger) for Foxy too. And thanks for your concern, I do appreciate it, and I have read a lot about going NC etc. But its hard (and inappropriate on someone else's thread) to explain just how things are.

Foxy..... I compartmentalised everything, it was a coping mechanism from childhood which made it very easy to do what I did. I would never have told my wife, I had already left the OW so wasn't difficult for me to show I wasnt just turning a feeling on and off if that makes sense. I was adamant I wasn't going to blame others for my actions. I am many things, not a coward. My wife (she is my darling but I feel stupid typing DW) acknowledged we both had stopped communicating sexually and emotionally which left a void, she was dealing with an unwell parent I wasn't. That in no way is an excuse for what I did, I made choices, wrong choices that hurt my family and OW. It would've made my wife happier to blame OW, hence why she felt I was defending her by not openly blaming her.

I would never do anything like it again, not because I fear I would lose my family, that could happen anytime. Even after the years we have went my wife could wake up tomorrow and decide she had had enough, I would respect that. I would never do it again because it is not right she deserves so much more respect than that. I hope your husband and you work it out the way you both want, I don't want to clog your thread from the women who will give you great advice, as I said this place really helped me. If you want to ask me any question don't hesitate to drop me a PM.

And I think we need to learn from what had gone wrong in our marriage that enabled him to give himself permission to have an affair. We need to make more time for each other and be more loving and appreciative.

Addressing what Glass termed as "vulnerabilities" in the marriage is always a good idea however the key is for the cheater to look at what flaws, values/beliefs and coping mechanisms enabled him to give himself permission to betray his partner.

The OW is NOT relevant and has NO role in helping repair the damage caused by the betrayer.

If you are in London, we have found the Tavistock Centre for Couple Relationships (tccr) to be useful
For helping us improve our relationship. They charge a sliding scale depending on income which is negotiated in the assessment.

MissS: yes we've been discussing in detail how DH gave himself permission. I agree with you that's essential. Foxy: have you been talking to your DH too about this? I find it incredible that DH didn't feel a block when he came to kiss her for the first time and we've been looking at why he didn't. And why the uncomfortable feelings he felt when unpacking with OW in a hotel room on their first night together didn't make him call a halt to it. Its not all as flippant as I have perhaps made it sound.

MissS: you are very adamant that the OW is NOT relevant and has NO role to play at this point. Perhaps you are an eminent professional in the field and I should defer to you on this. What you say is probably right for most people, who can't bear the thought of dealing with the OW, but it must be a case of horses for courses and I don't think these absolute rules are helpful for everyone. Foxy went against accepted practice by getting in touch with OW and she found it helpful. I've taken it a lot further than that but that is what has seemed right for this particular betrayed wife, this particular MM and this particular OW. If it all goes to hell in a handbasket I will come back and admit you were right.

handbasket?? handcart!

Anony Yes, the giving himself permission is the thing I am trying to find out more about now. I think this may be why he needs to go for some IC, to identify what it is within him. I think like MadeofStone, he was able to completely compartmentalise things - he has said this, and I still don't quite understand how this is done. Am trying to though...I think he also learnt this skill when he was child and his parents were going through a messy divorce; I don't think he would ever use this as an excuse, but if he went for counselling, am sure this would come up.

I (am ashamed to say) was on the brink of an affair a LONG time ago - 15 years ago, so pre kids, 5 years after we met. We were about to kiss, and then I just knew that if we did, that would be the end of my relationship with my now husband. I cut contact there and then...it was only ever flirtation up til that point, but I knew it had the potential to go further. I'm not making out that I'm some sort of saint, but I don't understand why husband did not have the same mechanism that made him stop - we have come a long way since my near miss.

Foxy: yes, I guess everyone who has an affair manages to compartmentalise, they couldn't do it otherwise unless they really didn't care at all about their spouse.
And don't be ashamed about your almost kiss. You didn't give yourself permission which is why it didn't happen. I have not been in that position since we were married but I know I'd have a total block against it. The Glass book (have you read it?) has an interesting section which deals with this. Some people (like you and me) have "red lights" which prohibit us from taking that first step. Others (like our DHs) have an amber light instead which enables them to give themselves permission in certain circumstances.

Yes, Anony, have got the book - I will revisit that chapter!

Thank God some of us have the red light, eh? I thought my husband would probably have had the red light, generally speaking; so was a surprise. Once he'd got 'over the line' he said it was like entering a bubble, that he could step in and out of, and that the whole thing took on a life of it's own.

I still feel if she hadn't sent the message saying how 'into him' she was, he may not have had the guts to push it further. But I'll never know for sure. He in no way blames her, said it was pretty 50/50. He has since learnt from a colleague that she has done something similar at her last place of work...I think she might like the thrill of luring the married man (not that he had to take the bait)...and believe me, she's no oil painting!

Whole thing is a complete headf*ck!

Madeof it's nice to get a male perspective on this. Many marriages survive affairs and end up like yours in a place where both parties reach a place of equilibrium where they care for and value each other. My DH is similar to you, and this has helped me to let it go completely. When I think about the whole thing I feel like a stranger looking in. It doesn't affect me. Perhaps your wife feels the same. I hope she does.

Foxy from what you write I think you have a lot going for your marriage. Your DH does seem to be making every effort. Does it really help to analyse the situation to death? It happened. He was an arse. He hurt two women, both of whom he cared about. I bet he feels sick with himself. My DH does. The thing is people are capable of hurting those they care about, by acting on selfish impulses.

It takes time. I'm nearly 2 years on, and I've had massive wobbles along the way. Give yourself time. Accept you will have miserable bad days when you want to walk out. You wouldn't be human if you didn't. So many people will tell you it won't work, many because it didn't for them so they can't see how it can for someone else. There's no shame in staying together, if your partnership is equal, honest and happy. Equally there is no shame in deciding you'd rather go your separate ways. It's your life.

Thanks Worcestershiresauce...I really hope I can get to where you are now. I realise it is a long and rocky road...some days are definitely better than others. When do you decide to 'let it go'. I think I've started chewing on it again because I felt we were slipping back into normality and that maybe my husband didn't deserve to get back to normal so soon afterwards (yes, I know it's perverse). But, we had got back to being happy and he's been making a lot of effort.

No offence but he can't possibly blame the OW, he was needed to partake in the affair, at least he's not saying what a lot of men say when caught which is the OW is a nutter and a stalker, makes his confession far more plausible.

Keep him on his toes, always, you now know you can't trust him completely, doesn't mean you can't in time though but it's all about the time factor isn't it. Nothing perverse in wanting your OH to feel the pain he has caused you, in fact, if it was a case of brush under the carpet, forget and move on then nothing would be learnt.

Foxy I'm not sure I ever decided to let it go, it just happened. Things came to a head about 4 months ago, when I had a huge wobble about everything. One of those 'how could he, why me?' moments. I asked for a period of separation. The look on his face. He was broken. He just accepted it, and later I saw him crying. He doesn't know, and I'm sure he'd be mortified if he knew. I guess seeing him with his guard down helped me believe that the happiness me have now is real.

If you both want to be happy you will be. Life is what you make it.

Made of stone , are you saying you received a diagnosis of narcissism from the relate counsellor ?

Thanks so much for helping me think things through - it really helps to have somewhere to chew over stuff and not feel like you're losing the plot