My brother- is this passive aggressive?

[JosephineBornapart]

Okay- I know this is not the world's worst problem and I don't want to make out it is but.....

my brother lives 300 miles away. We get on okay although have very different lives- he's single and likes it that way. I'm married with grown up kids.

We speak on the phone either once a week or once every 2 weeks- usually about our elderly parents who live near him.

Anyway the problem is that if I call him he never ( 99% of the time) picks up his phone. I am sure that for 80% of those times he is there at home.

I mentioned this to my mum and she says he does the same to her, but she excuses him by saying sometimes he's upstairs doing 'work' ( extra consulting he does separate from his day job) and doesn't want to be disturbed. I know she's just covering for him, but also been taken in by his 'excuses' because he's told me that he only does this extra work at weekends, usually Sundays when I am careful not to call him!

This week we each (Mum and me) tried to call him to tell him about a death in the family (Mum's side) and again, he didn't answer. Mum left him several messages and eventually he called her back but he's not yet called me.

I suppose I don't know what is behind the way he withdraws like this. Our mum is a huge worrier and I know she sometimes calls him too much, but he seems to have taken a passive aggressive way to cope- rather than just answer the phone and tell her ( or me) he's busy at the time.

I suppose I just think this is about him controlling us in a weird way and wonder if I ought to ask him why he doesn't answer when he's clearly at home? I know we can't and shouldn't be slaves to the phone, but it's just odd that he never ever answers and only speaks to people on his terms.

I'm with DIY here. I'm shocked that nearly everyone has said they don't answer their phones unless they want to, which seems to be rarely. The posters all sound very superior somehow - like, well, they will only speak to somebody who has bothered to call them, if they deem it worth their while, or worth getting up for.

OP, I for one sympathise with you. I used to experience exactly this with my brother - he never, simply NEVER answered his phone. I didn't ring him often but he simply never, ever ever picked up. What's more he had the most irritating answerphone message - a robotic female voice saying 'hello, we're not here right now..'

One evening I rang him (it was not often believe me as I just came to accept that the bugger never answered) to ask him something specific and, as always, I got the robot voice. So, very frustrated, I left a message saying 'why don't you ever asnwer the phone and can you change that answerphone message, so that at least it's your voice saying 'hi we're out but leave a message' so at least i can pretend I have spoken to you!

Well jeesus, all hell broke lose. About half an hour later he actually rang ME and ranted and ranted, swearing at me for leaving a 'shitty' message on his phone.

I never rang him again and don't speak to him now - haven't done for about five years.

But I did discover afterwards that he was massively in debt and had henchmen trying to find him and kill him with axes. So I guess that's why he never answered his phone.

He's gone bust now and sold his big executive house to live in a rented flat. Maybe if he had actually answered his bloody phone sometimes and opened up to the sister who loved him a lot and would have moved heaven and earth to help him, he would not have ended up like this.

Don't bother ringing your brother.

If he's one of the sad people among all the posters on here who have some kind of communicating-bell-going-off-anxiety disorder then you're flogging a dead horse.

And if he isn't, then he just doesn't give a fuck about you and your desire to chat. Which is possibly his loss.

Do you have other siblings who are more willing to answer the bloody phone SOMETIMES ?

So if one of your mates had some juicy gossip they just HAD to tell you garlic (and it sounds like you like gossiping) then they would have to send you a message by various means asking you to get in return contact (as you wouldn't answer your phone if they rang to tell you) so that you could then make an arrangement for a face-to-face talk with them?

I don't think it's passive-aggressive, I just think he's decided he'll deal with things when he wants to... which is his prerogative but, as you said, considered rude to some people.

Would you feel better if he told you that he rarely answered his phone but leave a message and he'll call you back when he gets a chance? Or would that still offend you? i.e. is it not knowing what his deal is that is irritating you or is it that he calls back at his convenience (or never) that bothers you?

My brother never calls me of his own volition. I don't call him to "chat" anymore... I tried when I first moved overseas but he couldn't give a shit and always had friends over. I actually was more hurt that every time I called he answered the phone and was trying hard to get off the phone (telling me he to go because of his friends)... friends he saw all the time and me who rarely called and lives half-a-world away... I'm not saying he SHOULD pander to me but he could have said "Now's not a good time, how about I text you later when I'm free?" or SOMETHING...

Christmas 2012 my sister's husband got upset that they were pandering to the person who chose to move away (me... in reality I gave them a several hour window and they picked what worked for them). I'm on FB all the time, skype, Viber... I'm constantly contactable and yet rarely hear from my siblings (mum and I talk every day if not every other day).

I suggest you call and just tell him to call you if he has news because you don't want to keep bothering him. He could feel that if you cared you wouldn't have moved away and why is it HIS responsibility to fill you in... true, but hurtful.

The posters all sound very superior somehow - like, well, they will only speak to somebody who has bothered to call them, if they deem it worth their while, or worth getting up for

Nothing to do with being superior, but a lot to do with the fact that I think it is important to concentrate on what you are doing at the moment, so if I am:

• talking to my ds
• working
• eating a meal
• deeply engrossed in a film or book
• washing up

or any one of about fifty other things, then I don't want to interrupt that activity except for a dire emergency.

The big problem, IMO, with mobile technology is that everyone assumes you are available 24/7/52. I am often in meetings with my phone off. Sometimes, I get a voicemail form a client, followed by three or four chasing texts, all in the space of a couple of hours.

If someone doesn't answer, isn't it safe to bet they are otherwise occupied for the time being? .

"If someone doesn't answer, isn't it safe to bet they are otherwise occupied for the time being? ."

Well, that's what I used to think. After reading this thread,however, I will now have to factor in the possibility that they are a rude bastard with an over inflated view of their own importance.

Wow- great to have some posters who see this from my side!

I agree that quite a lot of people here are coming over all superior with cliches like 'the phone is for my convenience- I'll answer it when it suits'.

Yeah, fine. Whatever................

So why are those of you who behave like this wanting contact to be purely on your terms? Maybe one day you'll get a sharp shock when your friends tumble to your ploys and just give up on you- because plenty people here don't seem pleased that someone has thought about them and decided to ring for a chat.

My story anyway has a happy-ish ending. Brother phoned yesterday afternoon and apologised for not having returned the call but said as he only has 1571 as an answerphone he hadn't picked up the message for days.

And you know what- he said he'd phone again next week......

*"If someone doesn't answer, isn't it safe to bet they are otherwise occupied for the time being? ."

Well, that's what I used to think. After reading this thread,however, I will now have to factor in the possibility that they are a rude bastard with an over inflated view of their own importance.*

Hear hear!!!!!!

My story anyway has a happy-ish ending. Brother phoned yesterday afternoon and apologised for not having returned the call but said as he only has 1571 as an answerphone he hadn't picked up the message for days.

Glad to hear that. I think though you have to accept the fact that your relationship will eventually fizzle to very little.

As I said before, I'm on the opposite side of the world and I only keep in regular contact with 2 of my siblings, and the 2nd one of them has only been recent (Both DSs).

Another sibling (DB) makes a huge effort to see me when I visit my parents but just won't EVER ring me - although will at least answer the phone unlike some of those on this thread - he's just so very busy that I feel as though I'm intruding so don't ring that often.

The others can't be arsed. They live through facebook and I find facebook completely and utterly impersonal and intrusive. Why should their high school friends that they haven't seen in 20 years see messages they send me? (Like a pregnancy congratulations when I had only told family....) so I don't bother.

I've accepted the fact that when my parents pass on I will have a very limited relationship to the rest of the family. I certainly won't be spending that sort of money flying my family over as often as I can for people who are too rude to pick up a phone, whether it be to answer my call, or to actually ring me.

Hope your brother is true to his word OP, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Loving Curlew's post btw!

Firekraken, I don't really understand why posters are pushing me (and others like me) to make myself 'Wrong' and suddenly overcome my anxiety thing. I've already said I'm aware it's a dysfunction, but am not going to subject myself to the huge amount of emotional work needed to fix it, as there are so many other ways to get in touch.

When someone has big news to tell me, they can:
Leave it on voicemail
Text it
Email me with it
PM me on Facebook with it
Tweet it (if it's not that big a secret!)

I was advised of my father's unexpected death via voicemail. This was helpful, because I was able to replay the messages to get my head round it and take the necessary time to process the information before returning the calls. For all I know, the callers may have wanted a dramatic conversation with me in the moment - but that's their need, not mine. And I am not the right person to fill that need.

I wonder whether we could add to the Mumsnet rules that every statement made is deemed to include "this does not apply to anyone with specific mental health issues or additional educational needs."

Garlic- of course nobody is expecting you to instantly get over an anxiety issue. And of course you must deal with the phone the best way for you. Presumably most of your friends and family know about it anyway?

Course they do, Curlew :) Nobody wants to hear my psychological history, though, I just say I never answer the phone but do check messages. In real life, this is OK. On this thread, it's a crime against humanity & I don't deserve any friends

I never answer my phone either. I wait until I have seen who has rung, then email them back. Or use facebook messaging. Simply because I can't seem to take in everything that has been said over the phone, I forget bits. I'd rather have it in writing. Some people are phone people, who enjoy a natter. Others are not. I like a face to face chat as much as the next person, but I cannot concentrate on the phone, and my son hates phone calls too. It can be aggravating when I try to call him, but I understand as I am the same. I find the phone intrusive. We can't all be the same.

I answer my phone only when I chose to. Sometimes I don't for weeks.
It is rude to expect someone to always welcome an intrusion into their time.
Six people in the world know that I have a landline and if something is dire they will use that - I always pick it up and they respect my views

It feels as though I am being controlled if I am afforded no choice over over answering calls

One useful thing I learned to do with my mobile is send an instruction to the network that all calls go directly to voicemail. When I set this, my phone never rings but I can receive texts immediately and use it to make a call if I need to.

Interesting first-ever post nauticant

Sorry, Firekraken I don't follow. Are you saying that's the first post I've ever made on MN?

If he only has 1571 as his messaging, then if he is like me, he will only notice he's got a message when he starts to make an outgoing call. If he doesn't make many calls, this means some time may elapse without him noticing. He could, of course, just check from time to time by lifting the receiver and listening...but even though I have vowed to do that, somehow I've never got round to it.

On a similar but related note, I once rang my brother and during the course of the call, suggested we try instant messenging when we were both on line (this was before FB). 'Oh no', said my brother 'if I want to speak to someone, I'll ring them'

Out of sight, out of mind, I suspect. I know my son will be exactly the same.

Sand shoes or daps. The 1950s.

Oops, sorry, wrong thread!