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Original poster

My brother- is this passive aggressive?

96 replies

JosephineBornapart · 02/02/2014 09:53

Okay- I know this is not the world's worst problem and I don't want to make out it is but.....

my brother lives 300 miles away. We get on okay although have very different lives- he's single and likes it that way. I'm married with grown up kids.

We speak on the phone either once a week or once every 2 weeks- usually about our elderly parents who live near him.

Anyway the problem is that if I call him he never ( 99% of the time) picks up his phone. I am sure that for 80% of those times he is there at home.

I mentioned this to my mum and she says he does the same to her, but she excuses him by saying sometimes he's upstairs doing 'work' ( extra consulting he does separate from his day job) and doesn't want to be disturbed. I know she's just covering for him, but also been taken in by his 'excuses' because he's told me that he only does this extra work at weekends, usually Sundays when I am careful not to call him!

This week we each (Mum and me) tried to call him to tell him about a death in the family (Mum's side) and again, he didn't answer. Mum left him several messages and eventually he called her back but he's not yet called me.

I suppose I don't know what is behind the way he withdraws like this. Our mum is a huge worrier and I know she sometimes calls him too much, but he seems to have taken a passive aggressive way to cope- rather than just answer the phone and tell her ( or me) he's busy at the time.

I suppose I just think this is about him controlling us in a weird way and wonder if I ought to ask him why he doesn't answer when he's clearly at home? I know we can't and shouldn't be slaves to the phone, but it's just odd that he never ever answers and only speaks to people on his terms.

OP posts:
pictish · 02/02/2014 10:30

In fact...if the landline rings in here...dh and I look at one another outraged "Who the fuck is that?! Don't answer it!!"

1471 is my friend, as we don't have caller ID. Sometimes it's my dad for example...who is fine, but will keep me on the phone rambling on about himself for eons (narc traits) - or dh's aunt who will invariably want us to commit to attending some god awful event she has decided to put together, and to whom 'no thank you' is not an answer, but a challenge.

If you have something that needs to be said, then text it, is my advice.

FetchezLaVache · 02/02/2014 10:31

Do you usually leave him a message? From your OP, it looks like you and your mum both tried to reach him, she was the one who left messages and she was the one he eventually phoned her back. Maybe that's just the way he operates.

I do think that in view of your parents' ages and health, he might make more of an effort to pick up, but perhaps you could talk to him about it, develop a system of you leaving a message and him checking his messages more often and getting back to you as soon as he can. It does sound like you already make the effort to avoid likely busy times...

(I am probably a nightmare for returning calls to my sister (I promise I'm not your brother either!), but the thing is that she doesn't work whilst I'm self-employed working from home, and she doesn't always entirely grasp the need for me to discuss the pressing matter and then hang up. I find that for my own blood pressure, I can only ring her when I have an hour to spare, which doesn't often happen.)

TemperamentalAroundCorvids · 02/02/2014 10:32

Does he reply to texts? If so, can you use text to arrange a time to actually speak to him.

(Years ago when we had no phone, we got a postcard from FIL to say GFIL had died Sad - that's when I decided we should get a phone)

KatieScarlett2833 · 02/02/2014 10:34

Pictish, there are 4 of us, and we ALL do the face of horror when the phone rings Grin

LondonBus · 02/02/2014 10:35

I'm accused of doing this. Mostly I don't hear the phone ring or get to it in time. Occasionally I just don't want to talk to any one, or get involved with trying to dissuade my mother from getting involved with funeral arrangements.

TheCatThatSmiled · 02/02/2014 10:35

I love my friends and family. But have a very busy work & home life. often the phone goes just when I've come in from work, or shopping, or finished dinner or just sat down to watch a film with my DH before I pass out on the sofa. Dammit I need my time out and sometimes, not always, the phone ringing means more work, stress or worry. So I often let it go to voice mail. I assume if its urgent and someone can't get hold of me they will text or leave a message. Which you did and which he (eventually) responded to.

You talk to him once a week or a fortnight - which is good. Don't assume he doesn't care, (if that was the case you wouldn't even get that).

Hes single and likes it, but that does mean he has no one to share the normal everyday stuff - both practical and emotional. Your mum calls him possibly too much. You call him to talk mainly about your parents. Him not answering is maybe his way of coping without direct confrontation and upsetting you and your Mum. He may also feel, as he lives closer, that there's more pressure on him to deal with stuff.

Not making excuses for him, but I wouldn't call him passive aggressive.

curlew · 02/02/2014 10:35

This might be news to some of you- sorry if it's a shock, but somebody has to tell you- it's not actually the phone that's ringing you! Phones can't do that. They only ring when another human being pushes the lIttle buttons. Honestly, it's true.

susiedaisy · 02/02/2014 10:36

Op if I were you I would stop phoning your brother every week. He sounds like he's not interested in speaking to you that often. Your mum as well. It would save you being offended or hurt by his ignoring you. I dislike making small talk on the phone particularly of it's about the same subject most of the time and I often ignore my house phone on the basis that if it's urgent they will try my mobile. Maybe just text him or email once a week and accept he might not reply. I hate to generalize but my brother I crap at phoning our parents or me I can go months without contact unless I make the first move. But we are close and loyal to one another it's just he works long hours has small kids and can't be bothered.

KatieScarlett2833 · 02/02/2014 10:36
Shock Well I never!!! Wink
Pimpf · 02/02/2014 10:37

Maybe he feels you are trying to control him.

Maybe he doesn't want to chat all the time.

I quite often don't answer my phone, sometimes I just want to be left alone.

SnookyPooky · 02/02/2014 10:38

We don't answer our landline ever, it is linked to the fax for DH' s work. If anybody wants us they can text or call our mobiles or send an email or FB us. Many is the time that I ignore an incoming call on my mobile because I can't be arsed. If it's urgent they will text.
Sometimes it is just not convenient or I am tired or I know why the person us calling and don't want to get into it with them.
I agree with shadow above.

GarlicReturns · 02/02/2014 10:41

I never answer the phone! It's an irrational anxiety thing, but I'm not bothering to fix it because I have voicemail and dozens of other means of contact. People who prefer speaking to typing, well, they can leave messages. I'll ring them back at some point, probably leave a message for them, and it's all fine.

You sound a bit ... demanding, OP.

GarlicReturns · 02/02/2014 10:44

I have one friend who texts "Ring me please" Confused I HATE this - why can't she text what she wants to speak about, or leave a voicemail?! Since I don't want to be told when to make a phone call, I rarely obey. The friendship's petering out.

Please tell me you don't do that, too!

VelvetGecko · 02/02/2014 10:47

I often blank my phone, not if it's my mother though as she automatically assumes I'm lying dead at the bottom of the stairs or some such doomsday scenario.
But generally I only answer if I feel like chatting. I find phones very intrusive and think we should all go back to letter writing which is how my brother and I communicated throughout early adulthood, pre mobiles/internet.
I have stacks of letters and have a good giggle reading through them occasionally.

woodlandwanderwoman · 02/02/2014 10:49

Does he feel that you are actually asking him to go and DO things when you phone, not just talk?

That can be difficult if he is near your parents and you are not, he may feel like everyone's crutch. Even if it's a case of "can you just pop over quickly to check this / arrange that", his perception may be that not only do you need his time on the phone to talk (perfectly reasonable) but that more often than not, you or your parents then need him to go and do something afterwards.

He might therefore be not answering the phone until he knows he has time to talk AND do whatever is needed of him as an outcome of the conversation.

Original poster
JosephineBornapart · 02/02/2014 10:56

There are clearly a lot of people who don't like being called.....

Surely this is all about degree?

The simplest answer to all of this phoning is for the caller to ask if it's a good time to talk. I always do. I'm not offended if the other person says they are busy or can't.

Like everyone I don't always pick up, but I do for maybe 60- 70% of the time. I avoid numbers withheld or international as they are often call centres.

The thing is I am quite happy to tell a friend or relative that it's not a good time to chat and can we decide when it is.
I personally feel this is better and more friendly behaviour than persistently ignoring the phone when the other person knows you are in!

I often know my brother is in when I call him because sometimes my parents and I have just spoken and they have told me so.

I am not disagreeing with anyone who feels they like to screen their calls and only answer when they feel like it. But if you do this ALL of the time then your friends may eventually give up and feel you aren't worth the effort- which is where I am at now with my brother.

OP posts:
Original poster
JosephineBornapart · 02/02/2014 10:59

Just finally- my brother and I are of the generation when landlines were the only means of communicating. I have a mobile but it's 99% for work use, and he rarely checks his email or has his mobile on. I appreciate this is a generational thing.

OP posts:
woodlandwanderwoman · 02/02/2014 11:04

Are you sure you're not expecting more from him than he wants to give because you can't be there yourself?

Look at it from his perspective, he is comfortable with how much time he is committing to your parents and as you haven't said otherwise, it sounds like you are too. He is probably trying to tell you where to draw the line.

If you want to stop contacting him you will be the one who loses out. Can you start visiting more often?

pictish · 02/02/2014 11:04

woodland - what you descriv=be is certainly the case with dh's aunt when she calls. Which is why we avoid answering the phone...in case it's her.
We love her and enjoy her company, but no phonecall is ever without some sort of obligation or demand attached to it, and it will always be something we do not want to do, and often do not see the need for.
Result? Calls avoided.

VelvetGecko · 02/02/2014 11:05

He might have popped out after speaking to your parents or having a bath or entertaining or any number of things. Weekly contact does seem a lot, I wouldn't have much to say to my brother if we spoke weekly.
We're all grown-ups living our lives. I guess every family is different but I find once every 6 weeks or so is adequate where my brother is concerned and we are close.

GarlicReturns · 02/02/2014 11:06

Well, you can't be much older than me if your parents are alive. My mum and I communicate by voicemail and email (she hasn't mastered texting.) I agree it's better manners to pick up & defer the conversation if necessary - but it's also good manners to respect other people's foibles. You would stop being my friend because of my anxiety thing, so you wouldn't actually be much of a friend.

In insisting your brother should use HIS phone as YOU require, you are being demanding and a bot controlling.

Send him a postcard?

GarlicReturns · 02/02/2014 11:07

or a bit controlling, even Grin

CoolaSchmoola · 02/02/2014 11:20

How do your parents know he is in when they tell you so? Have they just spoken to him on the phone?

If so, then maybe after speaking to them for however long he doesn't actually have the time (or depending on the previous conversation) to talk to you as well.

Or perhaps he doesn't want to hear the same news from someone else, or discuss the conversation you've both just had with your parents and your opinion on it. That's probably why he didn't ring you as well as your parents re the family death - he didn't need to hear it twice.

I have older parents and have lived overseas whilst my db was local and now he's overseas and I'm local.

When I was away I didn't realise what it was like to be the person living close by. Now I do.

It is HARD being the one nearest, even when you adore your parents as I do. You feel incredibly responsible for them. To then have a sibling ringing and questioning you, asking you to do even more things and telling you their opinion when they aren't there seeing the reality or doing the work can be really really annoying.

I love my brother, but I don't always want to discuss our parents with him. And now I've been on both sides of the fence I can completely appreciate why he didn't always want to discuss the situation with me when I lived away.

Your brother has a lot more responsibility than you, simply because you moved away. Cut him some slack.

And if you don't agree, what would you do if you couldn't contact your parents? Get in the car? Or ask your brother to go and check? Stopping whatever he was doing, going round, having a chat, leaving, calling you to discuss, then going back to whatever he was doing. Or, dealing with whatever issue he finds if there is a problem, then ringing you and discussing it with you, no doubt with you questioning him. For you its a phone call. For Him it could result in hours spent driving, chatting, driving, phoning you - and that's when there isn't a problem....

Original poster
JosephineBornapart · 02/02/2014 11:23

Garlic My parents don't have a pc. See previous posts- they can't afford it or broadband and neither can they text- my brother and I have tried on numerous occasions to help them with this but they are too ga-ga.

I think maybe what people are ignoring here is that he never picks up. If it was 50-50 fair enough, we all do that I imagine , but to never ever answer your phone is odd.

I am sure he does have an issue with it because in the past he has alluded to wanting to avoid talking to certain ex-friends, or even work colleagues, which is why I started off by asking if this was PA behaviour- unable to take control by interacting in an assertive way , and preferring to hide under a rock and pretend you aren't at home.

OP posts:
Original poster
JosephineBornapart · 02/02/2014 11:26

Coola the points you make- thank you- are a different issue and not really on topic. I appreciate what you wrote but it's all assumption and I don't really want to go through every point you have made and say yes, no, maybe, because most of it is not really what I'm on about. it's simpler than that- someone who never answers their phone even when they are in.

OP posts: