Support for those in Emotionally Abusive relationships: thread 28

[CharlotteCollinsinherownplace]

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
A check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
Why financial abuse is domestic violence Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
Warning signs you’re dating a loser Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie If you’re a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out - You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
Heart to heart - a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

What couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
Should I Stay or Should I Go bonus materials This is a site containing material for men who want to change - please don’t give him the link - print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
What you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Oh good lord!! MN went funny on me there.
i don't normally say everything 4 times well only to the dcs sigh

Thanks Mink, message received loud and clear, specially the 4th one! in answer to your question yes I've been to WA, (they thought I was in the high risk bracket because he has made a couple of 'jokes' about strangling me if I took his kids away in the past) got Lundy's book (mine is Mr Right) I've got RL support in a couple of good friends and my parents, and then I decided to log things through the police because he can be really terrifying. I was feeling so strong last week, after a volley of abuse at the weekend I just decided that was it, I was determined to do no contact, I asked him not to contact me which of course he ignored and now he's going to be back next week slotting in as before because he needs to see the kids. I love my DC so much but why oh why did I select him as their father??!
Have a good weekend everyone.

Poor Fraggle, that sounds exhausting. You may have to plan very carefully to make a lasting escape - WA can help with that.

You do realise, don't you, that his needs (to see the DCs) are not important? And he can ignore your request for NC, but you can still choose not to engage.

Not that it's easy, I realise that. That question of father-selection - I ask myself that one a lot!

Does anyone else feel like a failure for being alone even though the together was horrid?

Funnily enough, I did quite well at picking my DC a father, genitically speaking. He is a bright person and had a good body and has helped in making them bright people with good bodies. and is/was mainly a FW only to me I think - have not clapped eyes on him for well over a year now

fraggle he sounds like a real pain. some of them just will not FOTTFSOF. What is your housing situation? i.e. Do you share ownership of the house?

And how would the dcs feel about not seeing him?

My first post here, after a very kind recommendation. We broke up today. I feel very raw. Our relationship ticked all the boxes for verbal and emotional abuse.

The thing is, is it still abuse if you respond? I have questioned him over and over about his seeming lack of feelings for me. He says that has caused his behaviour towards me. Normally, after an episode of really poor treatment by him, I would feel hurt and confused for a day or two then start to feel angry. Then I have vented back at him. Is that normal or, as he says, am I the root cause?

He sounds like a typical FW tinsel. They all explain or justify it as something that we've done that deserves it. The truth is that there is never any justification for VA or EA or PA.

I think responding is down to your personality type. I never responded as was a wet lettuce until I left. But others here and that I've spoken to in rl have responded out of pure frustration. And all their partners, like yours, claimed that this made the woman the abusive one. It doesn't. The fact you respond and they don't always is because they are so in control of themselves. It all comes down to control.

Oh Tinsel you got here already! I just posted on your thread to link to here!
Feeling a failure is par for the course here. Blaming ourselves for the breakup of the family and taking responsibility for everything seems to be a common theme on this thread while our FW ex partners are happy to blame us and absolve themselves.
Being alone is much better than living with a FW!

Thank you, Bounty. He is very controlling. For a long time, I have put up with a lot of OCD type behaviour. For example, he would readily run through a list of my 'faults' including that I did not pull stickers off new books (like a Waterstones three for two sticker) or that my eldest didn't clean the sink out properly after tooth brushing. On the other hand, he wouldn't clean or hoover in general and - when I asked him to he would say I was 'ordering him around'. I did the lion's share of the housework and all the cooking when we both worked full time. Yet he has always said I do nothing. I have bought all the food, all the kids's clothes and paid for all the living expenses. The rent - and most of the bills came from his account. All childcare was also paid for by me and holidays. The amounts are about the same yet, today, he called me a parasite. Is this typical or true? I feel totally confused.

Thanks Kougin. Has anyone else experienced another's need to over do aspects of their life they control directly while not achieving much where others have input? My now ex takes exercise to the extreme (runs 20 miles a day, rides bike for 20....) but doesn't want promotions or doesn't pursue career options? I have been made to feel responsible for the latter and told I distract from the former. So confused!

tinsrl sounds v like my x. he was exercise obsessed on and off. blamed me for problems at his work that he created. there was reality and then there was his version of events.

Think what you need to hold on osman that whatever the ins and outs of your rs (he sounds abusive to me) it was unhappy and you are better off out of it.

Bit yourself some lovely freedom flowers and every time you see them they will remind you you are worth more and deserve better and that life will get better from now on

Thank you so much, Mink. I have been a woman on the edge today and mumsnet, plus my friends, have saved me. In all seriousness, I would've been at a loss without. Or at risk of being reeled back in. I don't think I feel the love I once felt for him, TBH. It's more of a worrying fear than love. If that makes sense? It is a type of love and care but not how it should be. I can't understand why - if he stopped loving me years ago - he didn't say so then. I mean he has periodically but in the next breath, he's said the opposite. In the course of a matter of hours he's typically not loved me, called me names, loved me and planned our future. Sometimes he thinks he's bipolar. Is that likely or his he just a nasty sod hanging on to an excuse?

tinsel he might be bipolar he might not. but you wouldn't ask why a crocodile bites, they do, so you learn to stay out of their way. and it is the same with abusers. it does not matter why they do it, the fact is they do and you will get hurt.

But this is typical. they tell you they love and make you feel like they hate you at the same time. it is to keep you down, confused and on the back foot. they say/do whatever gets them what they want...which is usually maximum benefit with minimum input.

Wow Bernard that was very warm welcome
ladies I am in my new home. It certainly feels like home.
Not much to report on the FW-front. Amicable by day, bombarded with email at night from FW. I am just putting them into a folder and not reading them.
Hand overs with the kids have been mostly fine. They are very happy.
He has done some odd stuff. Nothing tangible he is just an oddly behaved guy but I have been able to close the front door. I just need to be able to close the door in my brain now.
I got assessed at college today and I got a distinction. I am having for that and an early night in my bed. I have a bed. It is amazing.

and to all the ladies in a troublesome place flowers and hand holding by the bucket loads here. Your stories are heart breaking and I hope for some freedom for you.

You people are lovely. I can't thank you enough for your help today. My friend came over and it was good to talk. Other friends have called me. They are all very supportive and I am so lucky to have them. The ex has always been very jealous of my friendships and has tried to scupper them by ensuring I can't see them that often. Things like blowing up at me before I've been off to see them - making me cry and shake and therefore can't go. I have, of course, made out all is fine in the past. I am not covering for him anymore. I have no idea where he is and have heard nothing. I have no idea how I will pay rent and bills or how I will tell the children. I think he knows how worried this makes me and is enjoying it. Am I just being paranoid? I would like him to be decent. You know, an email or text to say 'Sorry things have not worked out. Please be assured I won't leave you in the lurch financially. I will be in touch about seeing the children next week' or something. This is what I would do but he has completely shut down. I am not surprised. I am proud that I haven't called him. In the past, I have only to be yelled at. He feels I am responsible for his behaviour. I think he really believes I am. Even though he behaved like it before we met. I guess a lot of true colours are about to be shown. Reading other people's experience here has prepared me for the worst. A good thing, really. Thank you, again, for being there today!

He feels I am responsible for his behaviour.

This. Just sums them up, doesn't it? I hear it in my 6yo DS. "DD3 made me hit her." But then in a lot of ways, FW behaves like an overgrown child. It's just that no-one can tell him what to do any more.

tweedle - you're there! You've made it! Well done you and well done for the distinction, too. Enjoy your and bed! (I bought a new duvet cover with a voucher from my MN Secret Santa, so I feel like I've got a new bed, too!)

Well done tweedle ! Another one free and starting a new life with distinction! and

When someone first joins the thread in pain and turmoil it seems impossible they will ever reach the happy freedom and calm on the far side. But with baby steps and hand holding all the impossible financial struggles and tedious tantrums of the FWs become a hideous memory and life becomes good again.

Yay tweedle. to your new place and to a new life:-)

Congratulations.

I have been celebrating too. possibly too much.so do excuse any bernardism .

tinsel I just wish he could be decent I know. I totally know. if only they could. not awesome. not brilliant. not lovely. just decent would do.
*

tweedle I must celebrate your escape

tweedle marvellous news. Raising my glass too to your new life. Congratulations, heres to the future.

Tinsel welcome.

I so know that feeling of wanting my FW to be decent, - which he is all the time to other world. For my FW I've realised he does it as a tactic to look good to be in control of what others think of him. For him it is about control, not about wanting to put someone at ease or reassure them. Mine says he wants to be decent (so he feels good himself) but doesn't follow through on the direct debits or the actions (control).

Do get some legal advice and on benefits. I have found knowing where the solid ground is makes a massive difference, and leaves us less dependnet on a changeable FW and his moods.

So, I made it through the night. Even slept a bit between waking in a cold sweat. After Wednesday's suicide threats, I was pretty worried he might have done something stupid. An hour ago, I get a message to say he's at his parents. It was very clinical. I wasn't expecting anything else really but I never stop hoping he might acknowledge his behaviour and apologise. Fat chance.

He wants to 'pick up some more stuff' today, while the kids are here. In fact, he has announced he's doing this. Like an order. I have replied saying I'm not ready to see him but will put anything he needs right now in the porch and start talking through the practical realities of separation later in the week. He has exploded. Accused me of wanting to 'steal' his stuff and of being controlling. I'm not. I just need to be away from him for a couple of days to regroup and claw back some calm. I also think the children need a little bit of peace. What he's suggesting would be him taking stuff away in front of them before they've even been told he's leaving. I would then be left picking up the pieces. I read a lot of stuff about codependency yesterday and was struck by the 'no boundaries'' aspect. His anger, verbal abuse, belittling and bullying have always been excused as 'stuff I do when angry'. In turn, he has always told me I am responsible for his anger. My barriers are non existent. I have accepted this behaviour to a degree and lived with it on the basis that it is not the real him. Now I need to create some boundaries for me. Saying 'not today' was a first attempt but I am being told it's unreasonable and he is needling away at me. He has left four times over the years and, each time, I have grovelled and apologised to win him back. The problem there is that I haven't felt I was to blame for him leaving (always been his decision). This time, while I miss him, I don't want him back. How do you respond to the petulance and accusations that flow when you won't play the game anymore? He has sent me a ranting message telling me his parents think I'm being unreasonable not wanting to let him in. I am asking for one or two calm days to regroup not 'stealing' from him! Is that wrong of me?

Either ignore or repeat the original messageor state 'removing your things in front of the dc will upset them and I am sure you want to do what is best for the kids'
Keep it short, simples and do not engage with any of his accusations. e.g. don't signify his remarks about keeping his stuff. remember JADE do not justify, argue, dignify or engage. he just wants to suck you in Skye stick to your original position. let him rant and rail as much as he wants because he will anyway.