Does it matter to you how much your partner earns?

[brusslesprout]

Not wanting to start a debate or anything like that just a general musing really if this is a really important factor for everyone?

I wonder when looking at the bigger picture does it make the relationship better/easier?

My bf doesn't earn much which bothers me a little sometimes but on the same merit has no debts or bad spending habits as he's always had to be careful.

Growing up my Dad had quite a well paid job but isn't too good with money so still is in a lot of debt when he should be relaxing into retirement.

So yes does it matter in the grand scheme of things?

I've just seen a very dear friend utterly shafted financially in a divorce settlement by her shit of a barrister husband. She hadn't worked for 15+ years, was busy running the house, looking after the kids (one of whom had SN). She has no money of her own, or financial independence, and is now having to "enjoy" a vastly different lifestyle (and having to look for a job, because the pitiful maintenance her ex pays towards the kids is by no means enough to live on).

I also have a friend whose "D"H is a serial shagger. She stays with him because a) she sees no alternative - can't imagine life on her own and getting a job b) she can turn a blind eye to his shagging, as if she stays put, she gets to enjoy the lifestyle benefits of the nice house, holidays in the Caribbean etc.

This is what makes me think that having some money of your own and financial independence can never be a bad thing.

It wouldn't have mattered when we met or in our beginning relationship. BUt we rely on the money now that I stay home with the children while they are small. And it was a joint decision that I basically do maternity leave for the next couple years and I gave up my job. So I wouldn't be impressed if he decided to pack it all in to be an artist or something iyswim?

When we first met, no it didn't matter how much DH earned at all. In fact, he was a student so earned nothing. We've always been pretty much level pegging as far as salary is concerned. DH earned a bit more now as I work part-time.

I would say that after having children I would prefer DH to hear more so I could be at home full-time. I found working (even part-time) when the children were very small extremely difficult. Now they are a bit older and one is at school it's easier, but I still would rather be a SAHM. That said, I do have some independence and if something untoward were to happen a means of supporting myself and my children.

MrsS , we see it all the time on mumsnet divorce threads too and the husband who has his own business, draws a tiny salary and pays very little on divorce to the wife as he is not a PAYE employee so hides income within various companies.

I am a great believer in hedging bets and spreading risk. I was talking to the older children including the one just married at Christmas about it. If you can get several sources of income into a family which could be two wages or also a buy to let or investments or a weekend extra job so that if disaster of any kind strikes - spouse runs off, one of you is seriously ill etc you have protection (of course insurance too) it does make most people sleep easier at night.

Some dating sites give income and anyone can see analysing the statistics that men tend to pick first off for looks, bust size, youth etc etc and women look for university degree, highish income (as well as looks). However I think both shoudl look for someone stable in a job interested in work with ambition. In fact last night my other adult daughter was saying about potential boyfriends that the actual amount of the income doesn't matter but whether he has passion for his work and ambitions counts and it is the same with me. I like that in men as it reflects my own work ethic and work ambitions and I need someone similar to be interested in them, whereas two laid back people happy to trug along at minimum wage levels with quite a bit of free time seeing what life brings to them without life plans probably also get on very well. (Someone will now say to me a good combination is someone who wants to stay home and look after children and clean the house whilst the other works and I suppose that is so for some but it can mean that you grow apart and have less and less in common sometimes).

LauraBridges my DH was unemployed and in debt when we started dating, I never ever thought he would go on to be a massive earner. I said up thread I paid for ourfirst house deposit and most of our wedding because I was in a position to. He often says his luck changed when he met me. We knew we were a good team when we got together and things just clicked for us, this was nearly 20 years ago.

Yes, I'm sure lots are like that or both meet at university before jobs even start but a good few women dating later do prefer a man with a stable career to one where the woman is going to have to be the main earner however that is changing as more women graduate than men and more women earn more than most men up to age 30 now. It will be interesting to see how dating patterns change too if women expect to work full time for life and might seek out a man who will be good with the children and not likely to want to travel abroad with work and the like.

Doesn't matter to me at all. I have an uber secure professional job, but I do need a partner to be supportive and do his fair share of Childcare, so anyone who for example had to regularly travel for work or worked late every night wouldn't really be for me. Although as the dcs are older now and I have become more senior this is less of a deal breaker tbh. Dh and I work 3 days OTH each ATM. Shortly to be increased to 4 (dcs in Childcare 2 days a week). TBh a man who wanted to SAH and allowed me to WOTH ft would suit me fine. :)

There is only one question anyone needs to ask themselves IMO - which is "if my partner died / became ill and unable to work / ran off with his new 'soulmate' would I be able to house, feed and clothe myself and whatever children I intend to have, to a level I would be happy with?"

If the answer to that is 'no' (or 'yes' but only by relying totally on the state) then there is a problem which needs to be addressed.

x post Laura Bridges

Round here catsrus it is pretty unusual for anybody to be able to support a family without a partner or the state.

I do think this is a problem for the economy in that wages are too low and work doesn't allow you to be able to afford to live. We could manage without state help when we were together because my husband's job was in the SE whereas we live in NW. I think it is an unrealistic expectation for most people to be able to manage without a partner or state help. Ceiling for wages in this town, outside solicitor/doctor jobs is about £20k. If you go to the cities you may get £35k or £40k but wages are eaten up with travelling and taxes then.

Something that's struck me reading the last few days posts is the sense that one of the biggest obstacles some women posters see to working is being left with too much work overall. And that if they do decide to work, it seems to be down to them to source other people to pull up the slack in terms of childcare and domestic services.

Why aren't men and fathers contacting cleaning and ironing agencies/childcarers? Isn't this just as much their responsibility as yours?

Or do you feel if everything at home goes to ratshit if/when you work, others will blame you for it and not your male partners?

It also really pisses me off seeing women criticise feminism and being reluctant to self-identify as a feminist.

So much misunderstanding about feminist politics...

Feminism doesn't criticise women for their choices FGS. It does however encourage women to look at their choices and notice the constraints on them.

So if a woman is saying she can't go back to work because she doesn't earn enough to make the childcare costs worth it, or because too many balls will be dropped in the domestic sphere - feminism looks at the bigger picture of women earning less and women being held responsible for houses, children and the very fabric of family life. It also poses questions about whether men ever think they don't earn enough to pay for childcare, or whether their work will interfere with the way a home is run.

It surprises me that women are still saying that staying at home and not working is a choice freely made when proportionately, it's something one sex does more than the other, years beyond the biological non-choice of giving birth, recovering from it and feeding children.

Why not instead of asking why you do all these things, ask why men do not?

I wish men could have children ! My partner wants to be a SAHD and I actually think he'd do a better job than me as he has a lot of patience and doesn't mind the drudgery of being at home. I don't like work a lot of the time but it would be my preference over staying at home!

My partner was the parent who stayed at home for 2 of our 3 children. Which I suppose brings me back to the thread question (not intended to start a debate). Did it matter how much he earned? No, what mattered was that we shared so many values and attitudes when it came to domestic arrangements, money management, raising a family etc.

Leaven, yes if my father could do all the hoovering and most of the night feeds (bottle feeds) when I was little and my chidlren's fahter did at least 50% of domestic stuff I don't see what is so special about today's new husbands that they are sexist layabouts who leave their wives to do more than them at home. That's the thing. The most important issue for female careers in my view is to marry a non sexist man and both do as much as each other at home If that is the kind of fairer set up where you can both do the work you choose that you want.

The new rule changes to allow men and women to share leave when baby comes will really help as those women who want to get back to work but would likie a parent at home can do what my daughter's boss did - she took the first 3 months off and then her husband took the next 6 (their company where they both worked had generous leave entitlements).

My dp did half of everything Took time off when ds was sick got up at night as much as me etc. But I never thought he wouldn't and he never expected me to suddenly become someone else just because I gave birth. I have seen friends crying because their OHs won't take time off to look after sick children etc

But here's the rub.

If the most important issue for female careerists is to marry a non-sexist man, is the most important issue for male careerists to marry a sexist woman who thinks it's her responsibility to do everything to support his ambitions and money-earning?

It's interesting that such a (comparitively low) number of female careerists even think it's an option to have a man at home doing the bulk of the housework and childcare and even though I've worked with women who have that set-up, I've yet to meet one who hasn't been asked questions about how her partner feels about it, or who doesn't feel personally judged if her husband drops one of the juggling balls and the house is a tip when visitors come round or a deadline is missed at one of the kids' schools.

I raise this not in a combative way incidentally. DH and I were the products of our conditioning just like everyone else is. We've both always worked and in the early years of having children, fell into some of these conditioning traps with me doing all the thinking tasks like present-buying, dealing with bookbag letters and party invitations- and him doing less frequent tasks like emergency DIY plumbing or fence repairs. We both did ironing.

I can remember a conversation when we discussed it and acknowledged it. We agreed he wouldn't be judged by others if we had a fence panel missing or if he'd called out a plumber, fencer or got the ironing contracted out, but I would be judged and not him if the kids missed a party or didn't have a present for it, or turned up with unironed clothes- even though the bookbags/getting dressed were a daily responsibility and a plumbing issue was relatively rare event.

It was something I'd always been vaguely aware of without articulating it, but DH had got to his 30s without ever even questioning it. This was years ago before either of us had read much about unconscious privilege and suchlike.

So we negotiated, compromised and made changes.

Dh was a SAHD for 2 years. Unfortunately he just didn't feel fulfilled without some paid employment. I feel exactly the same way,so couldn't really blame him for it.

Leaven you are on fire today with excellent contributions all over the place.

"It surprises me that women are still saying that staying at home and not working is a choice freely made when proportionately, it's something one sex does more than the other, years beyond the biological non-choice of giving birth, recovering from it and feeding children.

Why not instead of asking why you do all these things, ask why men do not?"

Because women like staying at home proportionately more than men do.

Maybe Bonsoir....... I would say my dh is far better suited to SAHing than me, he is naturally neat and tidy, likes gardening, good at DIY and can cook, he is also a better driver (large part of after school care imo). Are most women better at this stuff than men? Or is it that after the first few years the pattern is set and the women's earning potential has fallen so far behind that any other arrangement isn't really practical ?

You might more than your partner, but you can't speak for all men and all women, or even most of them.

When ever people claim to know what 'most' people actually want or like, they are hiding behind a safety in numbers argument that cannot possibly be supported by fact.

Better to speak about something you can qualify; what you personally want or like. Whether your partner feels differently or what other people like to do is unknown to you, even if they are telling you how they feel and what they like.

We cannot have 100% insight into the minds of others, however well we think we know them.

All we can do is ask people to think about why they've made certain choices and how much various constraints have affected them- including of course the expressed wishes and desires of a partner.

"Are most women better at this stuff than men?"

I think women are proportionately more interested in their homes and in bringing up children than men are, yes. And it has nothing to do with lost earning potential. I think it is ideological nonsense to suggest the contrary. Look across time and history.

We won't know if women genuinely do like staying at home more than men do till the economic realities, and social/cultural expectations, are genuinely equal.

I would say that society expects that to be the case and to a great extent it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. My df was a massively involved father and never that career minded. When we had all left home my dms career went stratospheric. I often wonder if they both wouldn't have been happier if they had just ignored societal norms.

Societal pressure where I live is for women to work FT outside the home, not remain at home (societal pressure not to do so is very great).