"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

toenail why are you getting involved with the drama?

If your dm wants to leave your dad, let her get on with it. Don't put yourself at personal risk.

At any sign of trouble, call 999. Don't hesitate for a second.

Lamu - did she bring you here as a child? If yes, it's basic parenting to expect it, what does she want? A medal? Does she realise how idiotic she sounds?

Is 'raising you' something that has a price? What is the APR on doing what you're supposed to do?

Again idiotic.

Block her number and email and if need be, get a new mobile sim, and let her be the only one that uses that old number, her and your DB. Limit the collateral damage she is able to inflict.

Stay strong and if all fails, tell her to go fuck herself

:)

toenail sounds like you're stressed out of your head. Right now you just have to get through the next days. Have you got a chain on your door so your father can't ring the doorbell and barge in? As hissy says, if there is any sense of danger then ring the police.

Longer term it sounds like you need to get at least some distance from your mother. Emotional distance at the very least, and that tends to come when there is less contact between you. If you can't go NC, then think about going Low Contact.

And take care of yourself, do something you enjoy and is relaxing like a bath. It sounds like you need to just get through each hour at the moment.

lamu that sort of guilt tripping is low. It's loveless and meanspirited and nasty.

It depends on if, and how much contact you want with her if she is in real trouble - but she has at least one person still at home who could help her?

There's a phrase that someone said a while ago "gratitude has to be worn lightly or it turns into a concrete overcoat". No one has the right to twist your arm up behind your back and force you into helping them.

Have you considered blocking her number on your phones? and marking emails from her as Spam?

I guess I was meant to see this thread today, and subscribe...door went earlier, looked out of spyhole and I could have sworn it was my mother (NC though I bumped into her at the post office about 5 months ago). I kinda froze and wasn't sure what to do. Do I open the door or not? Figure had something in hand. Maybe she wanted to drop xmas pressie off for DD. But still I hesitated. Then I heard figure speak. It was a male voice. And finally I was able to open my front door.

I don't want to have a stomach dropping episode every time I think my mother is near by. Moving in a few days and worst nightmare is that DD will accidentally let slip that we are a)moving and b) provide our new address. I would -go schizoid- be quite upset if these people were able to locate me once I move.

If only they weren't in contact with my child. But I can't stop it. I would feel terrible, like some -hitler- enforcer, just like them. DD knows how bad the situation is and knows that she is not to divulge any info about us to them. I even worry for them knowing what school she goes to. Through her I will always have some word of these people. DS and her family are the only regret I have for not seeing but I was willing to sacrifice this to extract myself from them.

Anyone else wonders when that day comes and that phone call or email wings its way to you whether you will choose to go to the funeral or not...

My next sessions with my councilor will be about boundaries with my mother , I just feel like such an idiot that I've let her do this too me all my life! But I suppose its progress that I've now realized exactly what she does to me .

I have just always been involved with her drama and I'm wanting to put a stop to it now , I have my own family now and we are happy but I'm not happy with the way I've been treated and the way she treats me now.

I've taken a diazapam and my DH is in now , I've calmed down a bit , he won't come to my house until she leaves as I think he ll look here for her , I've been given a number to ring for help with support for when this happens , its just knowing its becoming a reality and I'm pretty scared of him

Welll done toenails this is painful, but with your H help (he can filter/back you up) you can stop this.

Now you see the truth of what you're facing, things will be easier some how.

nessus that sounds a terrifying way to live. Why are they in contact with your DD? When you move, will that stop?

My parents are all almost 70 and above. All the news reports of people dying are for people in late 60s and 70s. I know I haven't got long, I know thr NC is recent, but was it misplaced? I don't think so. Will they see the error of their ways? Not likely, they haven't so far, and i've been fair and specific about my boundaries and how i'd like to be treated.

toenails could you arrange to stay elsewhere for a while when she goes? Holiday? [hopeful]

Meerka and Hissy it sounds so simple the way you've both put it. YY she brought us here 20 years ago as children and won't let us live down the fact that it was such a struggle. Therefore we all need to be indebted to her for the rest of our lives. It's so ridiculous it makes my blood boil. Raging pregnancy hormones mean I'm less willing to listen to her shit.

Dbro is 17. No she's not in any real trouble, just that she was made redundant at 50 and for the last few years hasn't really worked. All her money making schemes involve us in as much as she expects us to drum up business for her ill conceived ventures through our own friends. I've spent the afternoon on edge, going to get her number and email blocked for now. Here's hoping! Although Dp just got in from work and said she'd been calling him at work this afternoon. Anyway she left several messages with his pa and finally got through to him late this afternoon, only for a quick catch up and to find out when I'm due. Mind boggles, honestly.

nessus yes. Yes, I dread the day that one person in my famiy dies becuase I'll have to go to the funeral to say goodbye (very important to me) but damn, oh, I do not want to go. It even invades my dreams.

Oh lamu it may sound easy but everyone on here knows how .. bloody ... bloody ... hard it is in practice. it can take a loooong time to really stand up for yourself and a lot of work and tears.

It can be done though. Specially if you have support from others.

toenails is your husband supportive? will help a lot if he is!

Lamu it actually is easy, if you consider that you'd not put up with a second of it if it were a 'friend'

The Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG) is what stops us doing the logical.

Stand tall, know that the fear is not an adult fear, but the fear she drummed into you as a child.

You have a H, so can tell her that you as a couple are NOT interested in her schemes, and please tell him to ask his PA not to put calls through, she has no right to do that to him.

She's unhinged and dysfunctional, don't engage.

Yes he's very supportive luckily , it was through him that I went NC with my dad , he stood up for me and it felt great to have someone on my side for the 1st time ever ! It also confirmed to me that I wasn't being over dramatic about the way he treated me

My in-laws have invited us to come and stay with them for a few days when she leaves, they live over 100 miles away so well out the way , I'm very tempted to go

Good on you lamu don't listen to her shit! She just wants to get the ins and outs of your impending due date so she can turn up and cause misery!

Had baby pumpkin this morning, as far as i know dh hasn't told inlaws yet and i'm hoping he doesn't. It was so lovely this time to go into hospital for my delivery not having to think of the state mil made of my home whilst 'looking after' my other children, whilst my dm not only fetched and picked up after dc but also mil and my niece!! This time i had my dm be babysitter, and mil had no wind of the impending birth

I'm not looking forward to her hearing of our news by the grapevine as it will be woh is me, though son thou. I'm hoping dh is strong enough to tell her to do one without my involvement as she will not be seeing this grandchild ever.

CONGRATULATIONS PUMPKIN
Hope all went smoothly! Boy or girl? Weight?

pumpkin fantastic news!!! Hope you're all doing well

Congratulations pumpkin

Thanks guys , Little girl weighing 6lb 4oz :)

AW! A little baby pumpkin!

Pumpkin Congratulations on your lovely little squishy, yet to unfurl newborn.

Yy I've let friendships go for much less. I've been completely NC before so I can do it. It's just the added complication of having Dbro at home who I care about a great deal. And of course my other Dbro's who continue to have contact with Dm. Arghh it's so hard.

Thankfully Dp is onside and says he'll support me in whatever I decide to do. Although he's forbidden Dd and any future children from spending any time unsupervised with Dm. Not that I'd even allow it! I've only recently told him the full extent of crap that was my childhood. It's only taken me the best part of seven years to get there. He can't quite fathom how deranged she really is and understands why I'm limiting contact.

nessus I have thought about it a fair bit. For me it will be a welcome chance for closure. I feel like for as long as Dm lives I'll never be truly free iykwim. My childhood really messed up my head, to the point where I still find myself doing things that I know my mother would approve of, subconsciously doing things that are expected of me. It's a tough habit to break.

Oh wow pumpkin fabulous news! Congratulatoins and I hope you and she are both feeling good today :)

Pumpkin

Many congratulations on the birth of your baby girl and .

Congratulations Pumpkin

I've had a horrible message from my brother this morning over a perceived slight. It's not just my parents but my whole family that treat me as the scapegoat. I'm glad i didn't attend my big family get together at Christmas. I'm tired of being judged and criticised by my family. I'll never be good enough and there will always be something.

Feeling fed up right now.

Pumpkin, what lovely news! I like this thread having good news like that!

My personal mind-fuck is that it's Brother's 40th this weekend. Meal out, without kids. Dad and his partner will probably be there.

I suspect this will be the full topic of conversation at therapy tomorrow.

I got though other brother's wedding in June, but since then he's had ample time to realise I'm not contacting him. I don't want him to use the opportunity to push a conversation at me. I also don't want to let Brother down by not going. I have given him a head's up that my brain is beginning to trip out again, so I might not make it anyhow, which he is fine with. I just want to be capable of doing this sort of thing without it being an issue. I would like to see it as Bro's dad is going to be there; not mine. He's just an man I have absolutely no connection to.

Basically; confused.

Congratulations pumpkin what lovely news I hope you have peace and quiet to immerse yourselves in that scrummy new baby snuggliness.

Dontstep try and remind yourself it's them not you. Have you replied to the message yet?

looking do you have to go to this meal? Would it be possible to meet up with your DB at a different time, when your D and partner won't be around? This is one of the things I struggle with too, if I want to attend gatherings for DB's birthday or his dc's I have to see M as DB is still in contact. Sadly, I think this year that I will just not attend any more as it seems to encourage all the 'get over it' sentiments, but I then worry everyone will think I'm petty, or just think I am cutting myself off from all of them (DB, DF and his DP, who I want to see).

Thanks everyone for the advice on what to do with presents, I have bagged them up with some other stuff for the charity shop and will drop them off later before school run x

I honestly don't know if I want to go or not. My brain is basically confused, spilling out lists of pros and cons of attending or not. It's definitely something I feel I ought to do for Bro's sake, rather than something where I'm thinking 'how lovely; a meal out.'

I did reply, trying to assure him that it was a misunderstanding but I'm sure it was a waste of time. I shouldn't have replied at all. I can't reason with these people. I'll always be the bad guy. It does affect your self esteem.

It's been a long day. I had to take DD out of school to A&E for a head injury but she's ok. A big bump that's all.