"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheBaubles]

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It's December 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1943011-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I volunteer a lot. I'm sure that's my people pleaser tendencies and wanting to be needed and I feel rejected if my role isn't needed.

I do wonder why people like me sometimes and I've sabotaged potentially good relationships in the past due to my ishoos.

It's bloody hard.

I think it's ok to let your post stand. It's not a weak to think like that, we all have those thoughts but don't want to admit them as it's vulnerable. I find myself trying to pull myself together and tell myself it could be worse when I feel that way. I'm sure that's conditioning too.

I think it's very valid Hissy. When you have to deal too much with horrible manipulative people, specially if they gaslight you, you get to doubting yourself - a lot.

Don't see any harm at all in asking the question in a supportive place like this. Worth asking because it's sort of questioning youself (but not in a negative way) and some of the answers could be helpful! :)

I personally tihnk that you can't help who is attracted to you, cause that's them. But you tend to get attracted to people who fit into your familiar template of a male - either the same sort as your dad, or pretty much the opposite.

I married a man the oppersite to my dad and who is incapable of hurting me physisically. We are like a jigsaw we each have different qualities that complement each other. I have loads of respect for my dh and we talk all night as his ideas are so far from what I know its refreshing. My family are scared of him cos he is normal!

I did think to myself the other day wrt dating - "WTF are you doing even considering it? Your role models are a guy who thinks he's always right, a woman who becomes her partner to the exclusion of all rational sense and to the detriment of her children. repeatedly."

Also, "why are you potentially disturbing the life/relationship you have with your own DS?"

Interesting point Meerka
'But you tend to get attracted to people who fit into your familiar template of a male - either the same sort as your dad, or pretty much the opposite'

So the MALES are also attracted to people that fit into THEIR templates too.

Am I over thinking all this? is it logical that if you go looking for potential dates online that you will find lonely people?

Maybe you are over thinking. But it's better to work through your feelings imo as it may help you to be aware of your issues and choose wisely on who you date. If you feel ready to date?

nothing wrong with change (..disturbing relationship..DS), change happens continually and the relationships evolve around it.

.. and personally, i am thinking the question was a good one as it came from you, and your working out of this.

Tiger it's lovely to hear how happy you are with your H.

I chose the opposite in my ExH but sadly he was so weak and non confrontational that it didn't work in my favour. The wrong kind of opposite in my situation. He left me for someone else.

Other stuff I am thinking...

It appears Mother is in a controlling relationship at best. She's now isolated and dominated by SF. My aunt's concerned.

Should I be? I read the My DD's in an abusive relationship, am I making it worse thread and almost wept at the concern, care and support she was describing, and the posts all talking about how they would act if they had not heard from their DD after 4 days.

My DM would ignore me for 4 WEEKS if I said so much as not having the greatest of days.

I think that the time has passed for me to help her, she has made that impossible. Perhaps 'losing' me and my DS from her life may make her think.

Therefore, if I write the letter to tell them all to stay the hell away from me, is it better to reference exactly why?

I think that askign the question of yourself 'what sort of men am i attracted to and why' is a good one to ask when your rolemodels are pretty shitty. Sometimes the answer's uncomplicated, sometimes it isn't.

about the letter ... hm, have you got Toxic Parents? She is in favour of confronting parents (in a calm way) about what's gone wrong and why you need things to be different. Can't quite recall the how-to offhand, but if you don't have it, I'll go and find my copy and summarise it if you like.

Her approach is partly about speakign things aloud so that you reclaim your self of power over yourself, even if they won't listen. Which they probably won't. But she believes it helps -you- to explain why.

I guess that maybe it depends on the people. Some people it might make things worse (but could anything be worse than the current situation?). Some people it wouldn't matter. maybe I'd say why I was having to take that step and what I wanted to see different, if there was to be more contact.

This is where attilla and cogito have wise advice !

I wouldn't list in the letter why, but that's only because I'm pretty sure you've tried to tell her before? I think it would be pointless and she'd deny it all anyway and possibly make you feel even more unheard, rejected and angry.

After the situation where they forced themselves into your home, I'd try to not contact them at all tbh.

It's ok for your Aunt to be concerned but it's ok for you not to be after everything they've put you through.

I have the book. Still at Forgiveness section, and am talking things through with therapist. I find that fairly validating tbh. I know I'd not get that with talking to THEM about it. Deny, deny, deny.

I gave myself the deadline of End of January for the letter. I'll see what I think in a couple of weeks.

The thing about choosing a version of your father or the opposite for your partner.
I've only had 2 LTR and both of them have been completely different from my fairly uninterested, unreliable, alcoholic father.
First LTR at uni was a practising muslim (he believed and didn't drink, but obviously shouldn't have been in a sexual relationship), so about as far away from an alcoholic as it's possible to be. He was very passionate, but not in a terrible, controlling way. It was very star-crossed-lovers and I often still dream about him and think of him fondly.
DH is loyal, kind, sensitive and loving and complements me and supports me, cheesy but he's my closest friend as well as my husband.
Also, DH is Spanish and 1st LTR at uni was foreign too and we met at a uni 250 miles from my home. I think they were the opposite of my father and a literal and metaphorical escape from my engulfing mother. With both of them I was trying to get as far away as possible from both of my parents I think.

6 years ago dh and I.were staying with my parents and my dads dog attacked my sister bitting her leg and made her bleed and left bite marks. My Father throw my sister out of his house as it was her fault the dog bite her and took the dog up to his room to make sure the dog was ok (the dog cant answer back). My sister would have to hop home in the cold with an injured leg had my dh not took her home give her first aid. Then he came back packed our bags and told my dad if he had a dd it would be a cold day in hell for him to throw his injured child out in the cold and he should be ashamed of himself and had no right to call him a dad. Then we left and he drove the hole 2 hours home at 11pm at night.

What a good man.

You say what a good man, and he is, but really, isn't that what everyone and anyone should do given a situation like that?

Being a good person, and a good parent isn't hard.

Well unless you're not a good person/parent to start with! :D

I think I'd have been so shocked I wouldn't have said anything or packed my bags and left. Probably out of fear of reprisals. I would have checked she was ok though and taken her home.

Admittedly I'm not a man but I think what I admired most was what he said and how he left.

I don't think everyone could have done that tbh. But I could be wrong?

Oh and probably not visited ever again!

All very passive aggressive.

As opposed to strong and assertive, like he was.

I try and be a good person/ parent but I wouldn't have had it in me to handle things how he did. Iyswim?

You're stronger than you think'

Mind you, when you're related it paralyses the relative, the H, being an outsider, has no FOG.

Hiss this is just one of1000s of messed up things my dad has done. Can you image growing up thinking this is normal and the right way to treat your child?

I was rased thinking my mum was a witch and if I did something wrong she would hex me! They totaly mess with your head do you dont know right from wrong , up or down. It affects me now because I get peoples motives for doing things wrong.

Someone is nice they must want something from me. My dh thinks someone is nice to me they must like me. It affects everything about how and what I think about the world around me and getting rid of all the messed up ness takes a life time.

I was tooscared to do anything when he throw my sister out. My dh who could not fight or defende himself still stood up for what is right. He helps me think for myself what is right or not.

Your H took the best decision, and through that some of the scales fell from your eyes he showed you another way.

You just need to trust your inner self, you know right from wrong, you just have been conditioned to override your instincts.

Growing up if I complained I would be threatened with being made homeless and kicked out of my home, beaten by my dad and brother when my mum just watched and didnt help me. I was neglected, EA, PA and noone helped me even when I got the courage to ask for help.

Im still a work in progress

But I think I put up with so much crap from my birth/ex/childhood family that im not willing to put up with any in my adult life. As long as people treat me right then they can be apart of my life if they dont I dont have time to waste on them. Noone else has my best interest at heart but me. Im strong, independant and capable because I had to be and in adulthood I use these skills to the best of my advantage

If you like spending time with someone and you feel good about yourself with them and can make them feel good about themself give it a chance to lead somewhere.

When we find someone that believes in us, it helps us beliebin us too! :)

Oh ffs. I'm not a belieber!
I meant believe!

Oh crap oh crap oh crap....I've just remembered something...mother is supposed to some into money soon, a lot of it if I remember right...oh fuck...this is going to lead to all manner of bribes, gifts and crap isn't it? I don't want it. Any of it...FUCK.