DP finally going to GP about anger issues... advice needed.

[MoonshineWashingLine]

There is a lot of back story here but I will try and keep it as brief as I can. DP and I have a two year old DD, we had a fantastic relationship until DD was born but then not long after, he started having explosive anger problems. It came on very suddenly and has only gotten worse. He was always quite moody (but nothing i couldn't deal with), has been depressed when he was younger and has a lot of genuine family/upbringing issues. But i can not and will not deal with his angry, aggressive outbursts any more as he scares me and scares DD. I put it to him the other night, after a particularly bad episode, that he either gets help or we are through. He has a GP appointment Monday morning.

He has never hurt me physically but has threatened to 'push' me out of the room once. He always kicks or breaks objects rather than any violence towards me or DD. These episodes don't have any pattern, sometimes he will be fine for months and then suddenly have 3 in as many weeks. He is very unpredictable.

It's really tearing me apart as when things are good with us it's amazing, we have a great relationship 90% of the time and I truly do not understand why he can't control himself. What saddens me the most is when he does in front of our DD. I have been on the verge of asking him to leave a few times lately.

Has anyone every had a partner who has come out the other side after having had therapy? I think he really wants to stop it as he acknowledges he has a problem, he knows what he does is wrong and unacceptable. He has tried self help books but it's not achieved a permanent, lasting solution. Should I go to the GP with him or any therapy sessions? I've never had to deal with such things before so any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Cherry you are being abused via a script. Your OH's behaviour is textbook.

Read the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That?...Inside the minds of angry and controlling men, in order that you may be left in no doubt that what we say is true.
Lots of love to you...I hope you can free yourself xxx

mathanxiety Ive heard of the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That before. Not read it thought. Just now I idly thought let me take a look at Amazon, read some reviews. Lo & behold, the 1st review is headed 'this book is a bitter rant', from this guy who has a loving wife and daughter he emotionally abuses. He bought the book as he is trying to find ways of helping himself..

he goes on to absolutely slate the book and also arguing with reviewers, becoming more and more obnoxious! He cant even see himself fgs..cant even see that all he's doing is justifying his behaviour and now blaming a BOOK for not giving him the right tools to deal with the issues he is inflicting on his family! Says it all really, re. the mindset of most abusers.

So many men of this type are out there, ruining women's lives and too often getting away with it whilst women jump through hoops, pointlessly trying to make things ok. NO man is worth it. Dont give away your good years to a man who does not love or respect you, only sees you as someone to do penance for all he's gone through previously in life (but doesnt really want to address...). When you get older (hopefully your DC wont have scorned you by then for making them live in a dysfunctional family atmosphere) all that will happen is, you will grieve and lament the years you wasted in unhappiness - and you wont get that time back.

Thank you all for your replies again. They make a lot of sense. I am still undecided about whether to go to the gp with him tomorrow or whether to leave him to it. I think if he goes by himself I will go separately.
DP has been at work all weekend and is there again now but when he got up this morning and came downstairs DD seemed to be instantly scared of him, she ran up to me and grabbed my legs and asked to be picked up :( My heart sank. I didn't say anything to him but I think he must have understood what she was doing and why she was doing it.

In the mean time he is being really overly nice to me, he says 'i love you' a lot anyway but seems to be saying it a lot more over the last few days and he's is being very clingy, almost vulnerable. It's very odd. It seems like he knows this is close to ending and is desperately trying to make me like him again. I don't feel like I can be myself around him at the moment and I struggle to be affectionate towards him, which makes us both feel awkward and sad. It always take a long time for me to relax again after one of his episodes. Things have been good for about 6 months until 3 weeks ago. I don't know what went wrong. We have such and open and honest relationship and we talk through everything at length and always have done. There have been times in past where i've felt like his counsellor! But after his outburst the other night he made a lot of admissions, he acknowledged that he is a very selfish person and usually flips out when something gets in the way of what he wants to do. He has an inability to deal with certain situations. He admitted he needed help and actually booked a gp appointment (although i has to remind him). He says he wants it stop and he doesn't want our DD to grow up in the same environment that he did. I don't know if this means he's making some headway or whether he has finally realised the consequences of his actions but I hope it's a step in the right direction.

But he doesn't flip at work when things don't go his way, does he?

I think he really needs to leave, your poor DD shouldn't have to grow up in this environment. My dad would always be apologetic and coming up with deep thoughts as to why he acted that way, never stopped him the next time. I wish my mother had gone soooo much sooner, its not nice living with someone you are scared of. She will remember.

So even when he is 'being nice' to you, you feel too afraid to relax. You feel unsafe in your own home, and it sounds as though your DD does too.

The Lundy Bancroft book talks about the cycle of abuse, and how the cycle continues because they will try to draw you back in again doing exactly the kind of thing that your partner is doing to you now.

She is afraid of him and what he could well do to you. Your DD is already being profoundly affected by what is going on around her and in the meantime you are still there and thus putting up with this abuser of a man.

Re your comment:-
"He admitted he needed help and actually booked a gp appointment (although i has to remind him). He says he wants it stop and he doesn't want our DD to grow up in the same environment that he did. I don't know if this means he's making some headway or whether he has finally realised the consequences of his actions but I hope it's a step in the right direction".

You needed to remind him to book a GP appointment, there's the first red flag. No he does not want to change or for the violence towards you to stop, the only truth he has told you here is that he grew up in the same abusive environment. Your DD will likely meet this same fate if you as her mother does not step up now and actually leave him. Its as simple as that. He is in what is called the "nice" part of the abuse cycle - till the next time he erupts and there will be a next time. Abuse like this is a continuous cycle. This is not a step in the right direction at all.

I doubt very much he will go to the GP at all, what do you expect such a person to do anyway?. Six or so sessions of anger management cannot even begin to undo decades of the abusive behaviour he saw at home and learnt from.

You cannot help him but you can help your own self by taking the steps to rebuild your lives without him in it. He will destroy you and she in the end if you do not.

You after all have a choice re this man, your daughter does not.

Perhaps you still are under the illusion that this is somehow just a simple anger problem and that it can be solved by anger management.
Wrong on all counts there.

You should indeed go to the GP in order to get all that has happened at home documented.

You need to protect your DD, who comes first in your life now?. Him or she?.

I would also urge you to call Womens Aid on 0808 2000 247.

You cannot rescue and or save someone as damaged as he is by his childhood experiences; you have felt like his counsellor in the past because you have indeed acted like one. Acting as either a rescuer and or a saviour in a relationship never works out. He hates all women, hates himself and hates you for trying to rescue him, he does not want your so called help and or support (you are too close to be of any real use to him anyway) and acts like this towards you too because he can.

H used to do the "I love you" thing much more frequently right after an outburst. Then he'd wait to see if I said it back. Talk about feeling pressure. If I didn't say it back he either pouted or kicked off. If I did, then as far as he was concerned, everything was back to normal and he could do what he pleased.

He also had a lot of epiphanies and insights into why he was acting the way he was... drink, stress, depression, illness, sleep deprivation, work. You name it, it was a cause. Oh, and of course, me and the DCs. That was often worked in there somewhere as a cause. Not once did he ever come up with "you know, I act this way because I'm an abusive shit." Because he didn't think he was abusive at all. He insisted it was just an anger problem. Except he was only ever angry with me and the DCs. When we were alone and with no witnesses. Convenient.

I hope it's a step in the right direction.

I'm sorry OP but it's not.

My stbxh was aware he grew up in an abusive household, and desperately did not want to become his Dad. But that was not enough, not by a long way... What he is saying is 'I need help, I am the victim'.

No, OP, you are the victim here, and so is your dd.

Sorry to pile on but I agree with all the posters here.

My ex P was raised in abusive household. He is clearly traumatised by things his father did/ said and I used to feel so sorry for him about this. Really reall did. I always used to say that his behaviour was as a result of his upbringing and make excuses for it.

But..... He never changed his behaviour!! And I assume never will.

When we split up, I spoke to his mother about it and she essentially said to me "honestly I'm not surprised you've gone your separate ways, I wouldn't want you to live he way I lived with his father for all those years (they are now divorced)..... He is acting like his father did ..... Etc etc". Speaks volumes when even the MIL says you're doing the right thing.

MistressDeeCee -- omg. That is horrible.

The thing that is missing completely from your H is a sense of compassion for you for want of a better term. You need to understand that no matter how hurt you are and no matter how much you share of your feelings with him or share with him that you are lonely, fearful or hurt, he only feels sorry for himself and that he is The Victim here.

The sense that you and the rest of the world have hurt him and that you threaten him every time you show him in any way that you are a three dimensional being with emotions that are separate from his will not go away. It is his core belief about himself and it makes him feel entitled to treat you as badly as he wants.

That will not change with some magical visit to the doctor. He will try to convince the doctor that he is The Victim of his own emotions and of situations he can't handle, just as he has tried to convince you that he is the sorrowing hero in all of this -- There have been times in past where i've felt like his counsellor! But after his outburst the other night he made a lot of admissions, he acknowledged that he is a very selfish person and usually flips out when something gets in the way of what he wants to do. He has an inability to deal with certain situations. He admitted he needed help and actually booked a gp appointment (although i has to remind him). He says he wants it stop and he doesn't want our DD to grow up in the same environment that he did.

He says he wants it to stop -- oh poor diddums. Something out there is out to get him. He is a puppet whose strings are being pulled...

He is asking to be judged by his intentions and not his actual words or deeds. Of course the intentions are noble. He feels really good about himself when he wishes his DD won't grow up in the same atmosphere he did. But he is taking no responsibility to just count to ten or take a deep breath. That is because he is doing this on purpose just for the sake of cracking the whip, and there is no trigger from outside at all. There are no 'situations he can't handle'. He confines his rages to the safety of his own home -- he is in complete control of what he does. This is hard to wrap your head around but it is the central truth here.

He is right when he says he is selfish but I doubt he realises the ramifications of the word selfish here. The reality is he is so wrapped up in his own version of being your victim (it is his script for the relationship) that he has no room at all for your pain and hurt and he will not accept that aspect of the relationship or his contribution to it at all. Nor does he really accept he has anything to do with the atmosphere DD is growing up in. What he is telling you with all that clinginess is that he will only be ok if you get over yourself and what he sees as your self obsession, and make him ok. He will not take any responsibility for himself and his own equilibrium.

Op I read your thread yesterday in active convos and it caught my eye.

I just wanted to give the perspective of living with a man who does geneuinely struggle (I believe as his dw) with his anger.

He also grew up in a toxic family and has reacted in anger by shouting and many years ago throwing things but has himself got himself to the stage where he now senses the anger building and consciously makes the choice not to react in anger.

The difference is that dc have never been witness to his anger, nor have I in recent years. And also I don't really worry about it any more. The only instance that I do worry about it would be if I was to die and he would have little support and all the pressures of parenting.

We do discuss it as it is relevant when dc push our buttons (as children do) and we discuss our own childhoods and reactions as per the 'ghosts in the nursery' theories.

Interestingly he also used to have problems managing his anger at work as well and has also had to actively work on this. His strategy for dealing with this previously was quitting on impulse but obviously this needed changing as he pursued a more stable career that is necessary for raising dcs.

Thanks for the slightly more positive story Ninasaurus, I'm really happy for you and your DH that you have overcome the issue. I can only hope my DP goes the same way. Strangely my DP has come back from work a few times saying he has 'nearly walked out' cos he was so pissed off with it. Literally this has only happened a few times though.

I hear what everyone else is saying too. I am very aware that this is more likely to go one way than it is the other, unfortunately. I just feel like I should give him this chance. He said he go for therapy about 6 months ago but then suddenly things seemed to change so he left it. Now i realise he should have seen someone years ago.

Why do you want to give him one chance?

Are you afraid to make a decision?

Are you putting things off?

Do you have a plan in place for when he blows it?

Sorry moonshine I didn't post to reassure you as I think they are 2 different scenarios. My dc have never been witness to anger, I am not scared at all (apart from the what if? scenario if I die) and his anger was interfering with all aspects of his life, including his work which other posters have also seen as relevant.

I think your dh going to the gp seems to be a plan to stall things and placate you.

Oh well, I slightly misinterpreted that then, never mind. I know what you're saying. They do sound like very different cases.
Basically if he blows it again, I am going to take me and DD to my mums house while he packs his stuff.

Off to bed again now. Thanks for the continuing support and advice. It really does mean a lot.

Ninasaurus your man has anger issues but isnt emotionally abusive to you. OPs H is verbally abusive and aggressive in the presence of their DD, and also threatened her. This is a very good example of how anger management issues and verbal and emotional abuse are NOT the same thing at all. I think you're 100% right about OPs DH going to GP to stall her. Any useful tools or advice he gets from GP or any Counsellor, he will use against her..my ExH did this, got all the 'talk and understanding' from Counsellors re. the childhood he'd had, why he was so angry etc..then came right home and blamed me entirely..the problems were all my fault as I wasnt understanding enough of his anger and why he was shouty and aggressive and threatening towards me, and anyway I should put up with it as standard because of what he'd been through. He'd then immediately switch into 'poor poor me' mode. It was unbearable.

OP like so many women you say "we have a great relationship 90% of the time". There's nothing 'great' about an emotionally abusive relationship with calm times in between the eruption of anger and unacceptable behaviour. 'Great' relationships arent abusive.

Good luck with all OP, and Im sure you wil put yourself & DD 1st, and look after yourself. You deserve better than what your partner is offering you now. Leave him to stew. If he's going to change (not that I believe such men ever do, truly..they just hide their ways for a while) then as you know, he wont do it without incentive.

I feel so sad for you but especially your poor daughter, she has no say in this. She looks to you and your partner for love and protection and is being exposed to things no one should have to deal with. I hope you decided your daughters well being is more important than giving this fully grown man another chance before like it has with me, stays with her forever. Good luck and you deserve better than this.

I hope Moonshine that you are no longer interested in giving this man one more chance.

He needs to go now and regardless of the fact that it is Christmas (another potential flashpoint for you) next week.

You have a choice re this man, your DD does not. All your words are those of a battered woman.